2025 Skate to Milano Women's Short Program

[Rebecca Moose]

I already said I don't like this program like 10 times in this thread

I do not have the time nor the desire to read a 36-page play by play thread.

But it sounds like we are in alignment and agree. Cheers!

 

[Rebecca Moose]

nm

 

[Arigato]

Wrong thread. lol. Sorry.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well she had all of them except the 4Lo last season. She isnt jumping any now which is effectively pre-season by the Russian standard. In any case we're comparing the whole career, by which standard she is the first, if we compare even only domestic scores.

Better spins that Lipnitskaya? I mean, I would say very easily yea. There are a few novice skaters right now with better spins than Lipnitskaya. It was a different era, the standard isn't even comparable. Lipnitskaya was extremely fast, the fastest ever perhaps, but she was sort of a one-trick with the I-spin IMO. I would say Adeliia's full Y-position alone beats it nevermind the general difficulty and execution at her best. I wouldn't try to compare Adeliia's first international start with Lipnitskaya's Olympic peak in any case... Its totally fine with me if people aren't interested in watching her Russian events and such, I wouldn't expect it from anyone, but I also wouldn't expect them to then watch her one start coming off injury and start using it as comparison with everyone else they've known for years at their peak.

We can agree to disagree but Lipnitskaia is one of the finest spinners.

Well she had all of them except the 4Lo last season. She isnt jumping any now which is effectively pre-season by the Russian standard. In any case we're comparing the whole career, by which standard she is the first, if we compare even only domestic scores.

Better spins that Lipnitskaya? I mean, I would say very easily yea. There are a few novice skaters right now with better spins than Lipnitskaya. It was a different era, the standard isn't even comparable. Lipnitskaya was extremely fast, the fastest ever perhaps, but she was sort of a one-trick with the I-spin IMO. I would say Adeliia's full Y-position alone beats it nevermind the general difficulty and execution at her best. I wouldn't try to compare Adeliia's first international start with Lipnitskaya's Olympic peak in any case... Its totally fine with me if people aren't interested in watching her Russian events and such, I wouldn't expect it from anyone, but I also wouldn't expect them to then watch her one start coming off injury and start using it as comparison with everyone else they've known for years at their peak.

Her Y position (which was Valieva’s signature mind you) is very nice but Lipnitskaia’s candle spin is iconic and she is one of the best spinners (Russian or otherwise) - her spins would be like level 6 with all the features and extra rotations - way more flexible, more centred/faster, and even when she started on the senior scene she had some of the best spins in the biz.

I guess my issue with Adelia is that without the ultra c, she’s not some mindblowingly great skater. Like what were yall expecting - a 75 off the bat?! She kinda gives me Radionova vibes - solid, dependable but lacks X factor.

Watching her again I notice she frequently skates on her heels, lacks toe point, her air positions are tilted and her crosscuts are juniorish (she kicks her toes up instead of presses with the balls of her feet to generate speed more effortlessly). She needs deeper edges and does not move with the ease she had in 2021-2023, her jumps lack amplitude and flow compared to some of the top seniors (the 2A seemed also uncharacteristically small - I would have never believed she did 3As before). Of course she has room to grow but she’s not a front runner based on that particular SP.

She also has some nice lines but the program and choreo don’t do her favours - she’s not really connecting with the music yet and it’s a tall task to get a newly senior skater to do a Michael Jackson program which her coaches likely decided for her do - she isn’t yet conveying Michael Jackson’s swagger and is just mimicking his movements. Even the moonwalk was not really that (she could take notes from Elladj). https://youtube.com/shorts/MnNw3miy0kI?si=nkabxFNsE6REGRuC

She definitely has talent and undeserving of some of her harsher critics…. but I think I need to call a spade a spade here because this Short program was not the moment. I do however appreciate her trying to not go with an obvious SP choice - I just think the program has miles to go before the pearl clutchers outraged at her score have a leg to stand on - I mean 8’s on PCS and +3s show favouritism more than them holding her down). Maybe her free will be more suited to her strengths.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

She might not have the opportunity to do a lot of competitions, but as a general plan of attack I think the best strategy (health and burn-out conditions permitting) is to take on as many challenges as possible, beat everybody in sight, run up the score every time out, and then when the Olympics rolls around the opposition will be shaking in their boots. And the judges will be primed as well.

Leading up to the 2014 Olympics Yuzuru Hanyu suddenly appeared (out of nowhere unless who were a Japanese skating fan), won a bunch of stuff while setting world record scores (for example the grand prix final where he knocked off the presumed Olympic favorite Patrick Chan) and turned the Olympics upside down. The next time around it was Nathan Chen. Not particularly well-regarded outside of America, in the 2017 fall season he took on on everybody, including Hanyu at Rostelom and Uno ay the GP final. Suddenly it was all there for his taking.

(At the actual Olympics his plan didn't work out due to a disastrous short program, but at least he put himself in the best possible position going in.)

Out of nowhere?! Um, he had a 2012 World bronze. Also had a couple GP golds. Along with the World bronze he had a 4CC silver, and a 2013 GPF silver. And was the reigning Japanese champion.

 

[Mathematician]

We can agree to disagree but Lipnitskaia is one of the finest spinners.
Her Y position (which was Valieva’s signature mind you) is very nice but Lipnitskaia’s candle spin is iconic and she is one of the best spinners (Russian or otherwise)

I don't know if you thought I was disagreeing that Lipnitskaya is an all-time spinner.

way more flexible

She had a needle spin, yea, flexibility was a forte of her's. There are juniors doing the same though. E.g. Prineva.

more centred

Not her forte.

faster

She was faster than anyone, but her fast positions were easier than what her successors are attempting. You can argue for aesthetics but, technically I don't think its comparable. I think too much innovation has happened in the last 10 years. The sport hasn't evolved but transformed acutely.

I guess my issue with Adelia is that without the ultra c, she’s not some mindblowingly great skater.

What is mindblowingly great? Are Loena and Amber supposed to be mindblowing great for example then?

Like what were yall expecting - a 75 off the bat?!

Not sure who yall is. I already said the scoring was fine. Danny G said he expected 70-71 for a clean skate. 68 with a poor lutz is expected. I believe Anna got about 31.5 on her first international senior competition as well.

She kinda gives me Radionova vibes - solid, dependable but lacks X factor.

Do Loena or Amber have "X factor" to you? Or Kaori is just sent from heaven? Ok, come on, let us be honest here because I engage with anyone who shows even an iota of sincerity, but comparing a 260 skater with Radionova? Its just not honest to me anymore. It seems this is what everyone says about the current favourite, until a new favourite comes along, and all of a sudden the old favourite had something that the new does not. At one time, Anna was over-dramatic, had poor technique, overscored, boring, one dimensional, but now that Adeliia is skating, well, somehow Anna had that something extra, and hey, at least she had a lutz, too! I mean, I am seeing Akateva nostalgia even though she was outscored by both peak and average in her best season. Its like, give us anything other than the current favourite.

Watching her again I notice she frequently skates on her heels, lacks toe point, her air positions are tilted and her crosscuts are juniorish (she kicks her toes up instead of presses with the balls of her feet to generate speed more effortlessly). She needs deeper edges and does not move with the ease she had in 2021-2023, her jumps lack amplitude and flow compared to some of the top seniors (the 2A seemed also uncharacteristically small - I would have never believed she did 3As before). Of course she has room to grow but she’s not a front runner based on that particular SP.

She also has some nice lines but the program and choreo don’t do her favours - she’s not really connecting with the music yet and it’s a tall task to get a newly senior skater to do a Michael Jackson program which her coaches likely decided for her do - she isn’t yet conveying Michael Jackson’s swagger and is just mimicking his movements. Even the moonwalk was not really that (she could take notes from Elladj). https://youtube.com/shorts/MnNw3miy0kI?si=nkabxFNsE6REGRuChttps://youtube.com/shorts/MnNw3miy0kI?si=nkabxFNsE6REGRuC

She definitely has talent and undeserving of some of her harsher critics…. but I think I need to call a spade a spade here because this Short program was not the moment. I do however appreciate her trying to not go with an obvious SP choice - I just think the program has miles to go before the pearl clutchers outraged at her score have a leg to stand on - I mean 8’s on PCS and +3s show favouritism more than them holding her down). Maybe her free will be more suited to her strengths.

I already said I don't like the program. I haven't since 2023. I always said she is a lyricist. They forced her into this same SP because it is her most familiar. She had little time to train over summer. Its a qualifier's tournament. I get your points but can we be honest: would anyone be scrutinizing anyone else like this in pre-season? Seems like most international favourites can utterly bomb anything that isn't a World final and get consolation. If she brings this same program to the OLY final, I will complain before you get the chance, trust me.

 

[Mathematician]

3Lz-2T, 3Lo, 2A, 3S, 3Lz-2A-2T, 3F-3T, 3F

Adeliia's training content. All was performed clean. However as we can see its even more downgraded than most of us probably expected. I hope they aren't taking it too easy on her. This is her only chance for experience with the international nerves.

 

[Selivanovp]

Anna never had a 4T.

It was actually her first quad. But then she broke her leg and had to focus on jumping from the other leg, so 4F and 4Lz became her first official quads.

 

[Selivanovp]

Okay let's not get dramatic here....

... she's had basically zero senior international experience, presented a program for the first time, had a flawed lutz, had no triple axel, and was clearly a bit nervous.... and STILL scored mostly 8/ 8.00-8.50s for most components (31.63) including 8.04 for performance, and scored +3 GOE for most of her elements.

https://results.isu.org/results/season2526/qogfsk2025/FSKWSINGLES-----------QUAL000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

Y'all are acting like it's some big conspiracy that she didn't get +5's and 9.00's across the board — this is an international competition, this ain't Russian Nationals/Rostelecom Cup, folks.

Adelia will hopefully arrive to Olympics with the same pretty much non existing international rating and reputation. Getting into a last group for FP is very important, and the most realistic chance for her to get there is to have a 3A in SP. Two quads are preferred for FP to not let anyone rob her by components score and to cover some accidental mistake. She can totally do it, and I do expect this content if she'll manage to pull through this season injury free.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Adelia will hopefully arrive to Olympics with the same pretty much non existing international rating and reputation. Getting into a last group for FP is very important, and the most realistic chance for her to get there is to have a 3A in SP. Two quads are preferred for FP to not let anyone rob her by components score and to cover some accidental mistake. She can totally do it, and I do expect this content if she'll manage to pull through this season injury free.

I agree that at that point she will need a 3A to guarantee final flight but it’s not like the women are super consistent enough that she won’t be in striking distance. If the Japanese skate cleanly she will need one in the free skate to win so she might as well train it.

She will have the reputation though, come on. As the only AIN with a strong shot at gold they’ll push for her haaaard.

 

[Isk]

She might not have the opportunity to do a lot of competitions, but as a general plan of attack I think the best strategy (health and burn-out conditions permitting) is to take on as many challenges as possible, beat everybody in sight, run up the score every time out, and then when the Olympics rolls around the opposition will be shaking in their boots. And the judges will be primed as well.

Leading up to the 2014 Olympics Yuzuru Hanyu suddenly appeared (out of nowhere unless who were a Japanese skating fan), won a bunch of stuff while setting world record scores (for example the grand prix final where he knocked off the presumed Olympic favorite Patrick Chan) and turned the Olympics upside down. The next time around it was Nathan Chen. Not particularly well-regarded outside of America, in the 2017 fall season he took on on everybody, including Hanyu at Rostelom and Uno ay the GP final. Suddenly it was all there for his taking.

(At the actual Olympics his plan didn't work out due to a disastrous short program, but at least he put himself in the best possible position going in.)

I think most of us who followed figure skating knew Yuzuru since before 2010. I still remember what he skated to at the 2010 junior worlds: Rach's Rhapsody on a theme from Paganini in a baby-blue frilly blouse in the free, which had an awesome 3A, and something rock in the short in a black T-shirt. In 2011 he skated to Zigeunerweisen by Sarasate in something frilly in the free and had a quad, I don't remember about the short. In 2012 he skated to Scriabin's etude op. 8-12 in the short and R&J no.1 in the free and was 3rd at WC despite bombing the short. In 2013 his short was the olympic one and Notre Dame or something in the free, nothing special, and he bombed the short at WC. But the next season he got the 2nd quad. I was heart-broken when Patrick lost, but some actually questioned whether it was wise for him to break up with Christi Krall and focus on artistry, when his main rival was working on the second quad. But people including myself were more or less sure that if Patrick skates OK, it'll be enough. Patrick peaked at TEB, and people questioned this too.
So, no, Yuzuru didn't win out of nowhere. But it's true, he pretty much never missed a competition. And we knew Nathan from juniors, he was there simultaneously with Boyang, and then missed a couple of seasons due to injuries.
As for priming the judges, even if some of them might be interested in looking up historic videos of Adelia and Viktoria, they are not exactly easy to find. If you search Youtube, you find quite a few blogs but not much competition footage.