2025 Skate to Milano Free Dance

[lariko]

Yes, I think it really isn't a conspiracy. Domestic skaters get more support from the home crowd and the judges are human and are influenced by the crowd. We see it all the time. I don't agree with the PCS the Chinese team got, but I understand why it happens.

Can I give you a virtual hug?

 

[cocteautwin]

I don't question Chinese judge's bias in RD. That's why he was removed. (btw other judges with as clear national biases weren't; if you look at men and women, all judges were judging in favor of their own skaters, some of them far more brazenly than dance judges.).

Did you see anyewhere confirmation that CHN judge was removed from panel because of bias? Maybe I missed it but I thought he just wasn't assigned to free dance from the begining because there were too many judges entered by feds to this event so some of them were assigned only to one segment.
"In case that at the time of the Judges draw more Judges will be available and entered as required to compose the panels of nine (9) Judges in one or more disciplines, the ISU Event Management Team will conduct the draw for nine (9) Judges for the first segment. The Judges, not drawn for the first segment will be seated for the second segment." - I thougth it was the case here; it's from a announcement document at ISU event page.

That's why he (CHN judge) needed to work hard in RD. But I believe, as for deals between judges, they are more complex and go way beyond one segment and even cross-disciplines. One will do a little favour here and other will pay back in different segment or even discipline.
Anyway, it's my last annoying input on this matter, I'm moving forward

 

[lariko]

Did you see anyewhere confirmation that CHN judge was removed from panel because of bias? Maybe I missed it but I thought he just wasn't assigned to free dance from the begining because there were too many judges entered by feds to this event so some of them were assigned only to one segment.
"In case that at the time of the Judges draw more Judges will be available and entered as required to compose the panels of nine (9) Judges in one or more disciplines, the ISU Event Management Team will conduct the draw for nine (9) Judges for the first segment. The Judges, not drawn for the first segment will be seated for the second segment." - I thougth it was the case here; it's from a announcement document at ISU event page.

That's why he (CHN judge) needed to work hard in RD. But I believe, as for deals between judges, they are more complex and go way beyond one segment and even cross-disciplines. One will do a little favour here and other will pay back in different segment or even discipline.
Anyway, it's my last annoying input on this matter, I'm moving forward

I didn't see anything that said his removal was bias-driven. I agree that the deals can be subtle and complex, but since any strong bias (national or reciprocal) is easy to see and risks becoming an outlier, it takes more than one judge to manipulate the score. At some point I was really interested in the topic and read a bit about it. It takes a collusion more complex than a direct tit-for-tat. Given that there isn't that many judges and everyone knows everyone... lol.

The other factor is that given the speed at which the skating is judged, when judges go into an event like this (or JGP) where there is a whole bunch of skaters they rarely see before, all of whom usually get the low placement, and that are suddenly important to place correctly, it is basically inevitable that judges go into competition with the idea already formed for who should end up where based on practices (or interactions). This would work in favor of the Chinese without making any complex arrangements, since it feels like an unwritten rule that the host gets a bit of extra.

 

[4everchan]

The judge was simply removed by draw. It happens at many events that a few judges are switched around from RD to FD.

 

[4everchan]

The gripe for me was that the Hungarians didn't get a spot considering how technically sound they were compared to the Chinese

 

[lariko]

The gripe for me was the the Hungarians didn't get a spot considering how technically sound they were compared to the Chinese

Well, it wasn't for the lack of trying by the Hungarian judge in free dance.

Australia, Spain, Georgia and Japan placed them lower than qualifying, everyone else placed them at qualifying placement. Of these, Australia was vicious and Georgia seemed neutral placing them 3rd in TES and 6th in PCS. It would appear Australia had no need to panic, until you see that Hungarians came in 3rd in FD overall and on TES and Australians were yet to dance. But, like, really? They were outscoring anyone but Lithuanians.

In RD, it was Italy, Lithuania and Japan who scored them down and nobody put them in qualifying place. Lithuanian in RD was as bad as Australian in FD, with Japan not far behind, so their low score remained after LTU was struck.

So judges for the most part didn't like their RD, liked their free, and there is maybe a slight potential that direct competitors marked them down just in case but it didn't seem like a conspiracy, just a normal reaction to protect their own chances (save for LTU. What LTU had on them in RD, not sure, but it was not motivated by a fear of Hungarians scoring anywhere near LTU). Funny thing is, Hungarian judge marked them exactly for positions they ended up in in both RD (7) and FD (3).

Honestly, I don't think there is a clear story here, and if there is, it has to involve nations not normally blamed for corrupt judging. Do we want to believe that judging corrupts, and ice dance judging corrupts absolutely? Or do we just cheer for non-qualifiers to do better in their next competition?

 

[Andrea82]

Did you see anyewhere confirmation that CHN judge was removed from panel because of bias? Maybe I missed it but I thought he just wasn't assigned to free dance from the begining because there were too many judges entered by feds to this event so some of them were assigned only to one segment.
"In case that at the time of the Judges draw more Judges will be available and entered as required to compose the panels of nine (9) Judges in one or more disciplines, the ISU Event Management Team will conduct the draw for nine (9) Judges for the first segment. The Judges, not drawn for the first segment will be seated for the second segment." - I thougth it was the case here; it's from a announcement document at ISU event page.

That's why he (CHN judge) needed to work hard in RD. But I believe, as for deals between judges, they are more complex and go way beyond one segment and even cross-disciplines. One will do a little favour here and other will pay back in different segment or even discipline.
Anyway, it's my last annoying input on this matter, I'm moving forward

Yes, he wasn't in the FD panel because of the draw. The composition of the FD panel without him was already published before the RD took place.

 

[jersey1302]

The gripe for me was that the Hungarians didn't get a spot considering how technically sound they were compared to the Chinese

Completely agree. It should of been sweden and Hungary in the standings ahead of the Chinese

 

[Seven Sisters]

I finally watched the FD on replay last night and have read everyone’s comments about the teams competing for the last two spots, and one thing I’ve not seen anyone mention really jumped out at me, namely—Wang/Liu are an IAM team, unlike Hungary, Japan, Sweden and Spain, aka everyone else who was in that position.

Some say that just being a part of the IAM stable has its benefits.

 

[lariko]

I finally watched the FD on replay last night and have read everyone’s comments about the teams competing for the last two spots, and one thing I’ve not seen anyone mention really jumped out at me, namely—Wang/Liu are an IAM team, unlike Hungary, Japan, Sweden and Spain, aka everyone else who was in that position.

Some say that just being a part of the IAM stable has its benefits.

Could be.