Is there a limit to how many times someone can use a program throughout their career?

[RafaelAstro]

We know that skaters sometimes repeat their SP or FP for more than one season. I’m neutral about that, because sometimes I enjoy it if the program is really good and the skater didn’t reach their full potential with it before. But if that’s not the case, it can become boring or even annoying. There have been examples of skaters using the same program for three seasons in a row, which made me wonder: what if a skater has a really good program that feels comfortable, has strong scoring potential, and doesn’t want to change it for the rest of their career? How would the judges or the audience react? What examples do you know of skaters who repeated a program for more than two seasons? Or skaters who repeated a program just once but later felt it was a bad decision? I remember Mako Yamashita using her famous/infamous SP for three seasons in a row, and people were upset about it, even though I was one of the weird people who actually liked it, lol.

 

[Diana Delafield]

We know that skaters sometimes repeat their SP or FP for more than one season. I’m neutral about that, because sometimes I enjoy it if the program is really good and the skater didn’t reach their full potential with it before. But if that’s not the case, it can become boring or even annoying. There have been examples of skaters using the same program for three seasons in a row, which made me wonder: what if a skater has a really good program that feels comfortable, has strong scoring potential, and doesn’t want to change it for the rest of their career? How would the judges or the audience react? What examples do you know of skaters who repeated a program for more than two seasons? Or skaters who repeated a program just once but later felt it was a bad decision? I remember Mako Yamashita using her famous/infamous SP for three seasons in a row, and people were upset about it, even though I was one of the weird people who actually liked it, lol.

Three seasons in a row? Or maybe twice, and then in a later year a new program just wasn't working and the skater revived an oldie-but-goodie because there wasn't time to build another new one? I'm speaking as a skater, not as a judge or audience member. Too many possible reasons to make a blanket judgment, and in pre-social media days fans didn't always have enough updates to follow a decision process. My partner and I only repeated a program for two seasons once, when the first use somehow just never got off the ice, so to speak. Then our coach found a better recording (in the days before getting music rights was so fraught with complications) of the same piece (Hall of the Mountain King, mostly) and we had new, more vivid costumes, and the program came alive the second time around. Higher scores, more applause.

If the skaters you're thinking of didn't change anything except maybe costumes, I'd be inclined to think either laziness or, more likely, a reluctance to step out of their comfort zone. Reworking a popular program for galas or shows, great, but I'd be inclined, if I were a judge, to drop a few marks if it were done in competitions without knowing there had been a very good reason like injury or a legal challenge over rights that wiped out the time to come up with a new program.

(Addendum: While working on my own budget for October just now, I remembered a case of a girl years ago who used her SP three seasons in a row, for financial reasons. She never won Canadians, but she was on the senior ladies podium several times and went to a few international competitions before the Grand Prix series expanded the number of those. Her family were paying the bills for her skating and her father's business hit a rough patch. The money just wasn't there for new choreography or private ice time to work on a new program, so all they could afford was a new LP. No one knew the reason until there was a little notice in the legal announcement section of the newspaper about her father's bankruptcy; she'd been too embarrassed to say anything about that until then.)

 

[Mathman]

Michelle Kwan used East of Eden in 1993-94 (LP). 1994-85 (Ex), 1995-96 (Ex), 1998-99 (EX and tehcncial program at World Pro), 2000-2001 (SP) and 2002-2002 (SP.) I for one never got tired of it.

I was about to mention one of my favorites, Larkyn Austman, whose "Mein Herr SP, to me, defined her (relatively short) career. But when I looked it up, she used it only one season -- I guess it was just such a great program that it stuck in my mind.

If you countn pros, Yuka Sato's Hatfull of Stars must win some kind of prize for longevity.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Maurizio Zandron

 

[AlexBreeze]

Generally, less-known skaters, especially novices and juniors, often keep a program for many seasons. Because of not having money for a new one, for example. Or because of focusing on improving technical aspects of their skating. My fave was skating Don Juan DeMarco for three season in a row in juniors.

 

[RafaelAstro]

Andrea Montesinos has performed the same SP for three seasons in a row, but I’m fine with it because we haven’t seen her perform much, and the program is very good. She always does her best to interpret it. Rino Matsuike chose to use her last free program as a short program this season, and I think that was a wise decision, since it’s the best program she’s had so far. I also feel we didn’t see enough of it before, and now it’s performed with a different composition. On the other hand, Mone decided to use her SP from last season again, and I feel that program doesn’t work for two seasons in a row because it loses its magic.

 

[Skating91]

Given that music does not contribute to the score in any way (much like the costume), it makes sense to use a good program as long as possible.

 

[Mathman]

To me, I would think that it is more the skater than the judges who risk getting bored. Once you stop moving forward, you are headed backward. I would imagine that most skaters look forward to taking on new programs each season.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hanyu used multiple programs, multiple times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_figure_skating_programs_of_Yuzuru_Hanyu

Javier Fernandez used a couple of programs multiple times over his career.

Jeremy Abbott used Exogenesis pt 3 twice as FS but the choreography was slightly changed the second time around.

Ashley Wagner used Moulin Rouge twice.

 

[NanaPat]

On the other hand, Mone decided to use her SP from last season again, and I feel that program doesn’t work for two seasons in a row because it loses its magic.

Another example of a program that lost its magic for me when done two years in a row was the Chock and Bates snake dance.

I think it was partly just my being more critical once I grew accustomed to the dance, and partly that they made changes to the choreography that used more of their "special" moves that can be interpreted as strengths, but I see as weaknesses (like him carrying her around while she poses prettily).

Anyway, I liked the program way more the first year than I did the second.

 

[TontoK]

I'm a greedy fan. I want something new. Something innovative. I look forward to new program announcements. The sport made me this way, so no apologies.

But I also see how the expenses with two new programs every year can be a big drain on a family budget - and we have to remember that not all international skaters are raking it in from shows, etc. And I definitely am on the side of letting more people of modest means pursue figure skating, both recreationally and as a career endeavor.

So, I'm a little less rigid in my views than I used to be.

 

[Skater Boy]

Maybe it was Viktor Peterenko who used a program three seasons in a row????

 

[TallyT]

How many times did Glenn Gould play the Goldberg Variations, Led Zeppelin perform Stairway to Heaven or Alicia Markova dance Giselle? On the flip (sporting) side, how many times did Mark Spitz do this or that specific swin, or Greg Louganis this or that dive? And how many times do we/the audience actually see each figure skating program in a season - even for an elite skater who gets to all the major competitions, it's not that many.

If someone like Michelle Kwan can do multiple years reinterpreting the same work and people found something new and fresh every time - because with a great artist, there is something new and fresh every time - then we can't really say to lesser talents "sorry, you're not good enough to reskate this even if you love it" especially as new music and costumes don't get them extra points.

 

[Mathman]

How many times did Glenn Gould play the Goldberg Variations...

My favorite example is Joni Mitchel's Both Sides Now. She recorded it in 1969 as a fresh-faced "flower child." then revisited it 30 years layer (2000) when she really HAD seen life from both sides now, The most interesting thing is that both versions are wonderful, each in its own way.

Could a figure skater pull this off? "A decade ago I presented an interpretation of Romeo and Juliette. Here is what I have learned since (after years of living, competing and following a pro career)." Which would be better? The real Juliette WAS 14.

 

[4everchan]

Comparing repetitions of skating programs to musical répertoire performed by artists is apples to oranges. In my opinion , it is absolutely not relevant. Sorry. Fans actually want Celine Dion to sing her Titanic song over and over. That's the whole point.

Comparing to athletes in other sports is also strange to say the least. Swimmers race fixed styles and distances. They have no say in what is there for them to swim. I mean, I was a swimmer and I loved all styles but back. I was often swimming the 200 IM . Was I allowed to sub the backstroke part of it because I prefer butterfly? No. Seriously.

Divers have a list of dives to achieve and they have to pick from different categories, forward, backward, inward, with twists etc. All they can play with is really the number revolutions and the dives are performed individually and do not constitute a "programme"

Yes, some skaters have repeated the same programs over and over for various reasons. They can. That's up to them and they do not seem to be judged disadvantageously because of it.

If some fans are not happy, that's their right as fans too. For me, personally, I'm fine with skaters who keep one program for a second year while they learn another one. I'm curious in how skaters can reinvent themselves so I will always prefer seeing as many new programmes as possible . When some skaters repeat their programs too often for my taste, I just don't watch them with the same attention. I tend to watch the elements quality only as the rest is predictable and no longer really keep my attention. But if some fans want to see the same program over and over because they truly love it, that's fine with me too.

 

[TallyT]

Comparing repetitions of skating programs to musical répertoire performed by artists is apples to oranges. In my opinion

And you are entitled to that opinion of course: I do not agree. I think both comparing figure skating to other artistic pursuits (because it is at its best an artform) and to other sports (because I also assume we all agree it is a sport) is entirely relevant.

 

[el henry]

My favorite example is Joni Mitchel's Both Sides Now. She recorded it in 1969 as a fresh-faced "flower child." then revisited it 30 years layer (2000) when she really HAD seen life from both sides now, The most interesting thing is that both versions are wonderful, each in its own way.

Could a figure skater pull this off? "A decade ago I presented an interpretation of Romeo and Juliette. Here is what I have learned since (after years of living, competing and following a pro career)." Which would be better? The real Juliette WAS 14.

We may see this weekend.

Riverdance (LP) with Jason at 30, as opposed to Riverdance (SP) with Jason at 19.

He said in a recent interview that he was bringing back Riverdance as a thank you to the fans. Which sounds more like goodbye than the reworking of adult reflecting on his long career versus a up and coming teenager.

 

[TallyT]

We may see this weekend.

Riverdance (LP) with Jason at 30, as opposed to Riverdance (SP) with Jason at 19.

He said in a recent interview that he was bringing back Riverdance as a thank you to the fans. Which sounds more like goodbye than the reworking of adult reflecting on his long career versus a up and coming teenager.

Is it going to be available online? Riverdance is still one of my favourites of Jason's programs but having seen skaters sometimes - for shows etc - bring back a program from their youth can be fascinating, and this is extra special because he is not only competing but thanks to the erratic nature of US mens skating, with an astounding level of competitiveness.

 

[Mathematician]

I suggest a rule stating if the program is beautiful it can stay for longer but if it sucks it gets banned immediately forever

 

[el henry]

Is it going to be available online? Riverdance is still one of my favourites of Jason's programs but having seen skaters sometimes - for shows etc - bring back a program from their youth can be fascinating, and this is extra special because he is not only competing but thanks to the erratic nature of US mens skating, with an astounding level of competitiveness.

It will be at Denis Ten Trophy, which I think has a not geoblocked, free stream

(And of course I reversed the LP and SP in my original post: LP, 2013-14, SP, 2025)