Watching this clip from 2001 as someone who started following ice Dance closely only a few years ago it's quite striking how much more time Anisina and Peizerat spent dancing in hold than those who skate under the current rules.Then I thought, maybe I was idealizing the past while in the past it was even worse? So I watched an Original Dance from 2001, also with the sound off. First impression: the dancers had exaggerated smiles also back then! But then, I forgot about smiles and skaters' faces completely because their footwork was dazzling. The lift was elegant and didn't look like somebody using female as a weight-lifting tool. And hydroblade looked so cool with a skater in her long dress... I enjoyed it very much but then I felt sad. I felt like I just had a glimpse at the lost art that will never return.
Ballroom dance patterns were niche but the smooth moves were ice friendly and the footwork had a "wow" factor when done right. Nowadays, pulling and pushing each other on the ice apparently has a funny side of it (I don't see it yet but I'm old and grumpy). But is there any "wow" factor?
Is the Olympic season Rhythm Dance exciting?
- Thread starter Anna K.
- Start date
As for me, the current Rhythm Dance does not look like dancing at all. It looks like synchronized skating or cheerleading maybe - two separate persons doing things parallel to each other and entering into brief interactions. I might accept it as such if the music was better but they need to invent more exciting tricks if they want it to be as exciting as synchro or cheerleading is at its best. Right now, it's simply boring.
And, like I said, I miss the dance. So sorry that it's gone now.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
After watching JGP, alternative JGP stage 1, and French GP, this is what I feel.
In some competitions the line up of songs is just dreadful. GP of France was downright terrible in my view, with Vogue being one of the most horrible compositions I've ever heard, and I had to sit through it twice with 10 couples dancing.
In others, it's not so bad, though Ricky Martin fit the bill for many, many junior couples. But in RD in old rules, they literally played the same music for everyone pretty much. So, repetitions must have been even higher. Whether you could take the same classic tune as many times as Ricky Martin's counting to three, is really very individual.
However, it's still repetitive, and in the alternative GP, the commentator (Khudaberdieva) said something like this, a real common sense thing (in my view).
In every decade, every year has only a few songs that are true hits that charge up the audience. Since the rules require the song to be created between 1990 and 1999 (as in first recorded, not just released in an album), and also require it to be a big hit/earworm etc to galvanize the audience into partying and dancing, this leads to repetition. It's not that the skaters want to be unoriginal, they follow the rules set out to a T, since not following the rules may carry penalties (as we had just seen in France with the Italians, who didn't create upbeat party mood).
I think if ISU allowed exploring the decade, unearthing the forgotten treasures rather than the biggest hits, that would be better. Like, in JGP, there were athletes who used authentically 90's music that wasn't well known.
In some competitions the line up of songs is just dreadful. GP of France was downright terrible in my view, with Vogue being one of the most horrible compositions I've ever heard, and I had to sit through it twice with 10 couples dancing.
In others, it's not so bad, though Ricky Martin fit the bill for many, many junior couples. But in RD in old rules, they literally played the same music for everyone pretty much. So, repetitions must have been even higher. Whether you could take the same classic tune as many times as Ricky Martin's counting to three, is really very individual.
However, it's still repetitive, and in the alternative GP, the commentator (Khudaberdieva) said something like this, a real common sense thing (in my view).
In every decade, every year has only a few songs that are true hits that charge up the audience. Since the rules require the song to be created between 1990 and 1999 (as in first recorded, not just released in an album), and also require it to be a big hit/earworm etc to galvanize the audience into partying and dancing, this leads to repetition. It's not that the skaters want to be unoriginal, they follow the rules set out to a T, since not following the rules may carry penalties (as we had just seen in France with the Italians, who didn't create upbeat party mood).
I think if ISU allowed exploring the decade, unearthing the forgotten treasures rather than the biggest hits, that would be better. Like, in JGP, there were athletes who used authentically 90's music that wasn't well known.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I miss the short dances of the Davis & White, Virtue & Moir, Pechalat & Bourzat era.
I miss the OSP's of the Torvill & Dean and Duchesnay era.
I like seeing how well a team can bring a known dance style to the ice.
I like having the rhythm dance skated to a particular rhythm- it challenges teams to move outside their comfort zone, and gives a good way to compare the teams.
I liked the two seasons we had everybody's folk dance, except for the Domnina & Shabalin disaster.
There is a dance here and there I enjoy in the current dance party themes, but mostly not as much.
I miss the OSP's of the Torvill & Dean and Duchesnay era.
I like seeing how well a team can bring a known dance style to the ice.
I like having the rhythm dance skated to a particular rhythm- it challenges teams to move outside their comfort zone, and gives a good way to compare the teams.
I liked the two seasons we had everybody's folk dance, except for the Domnina & Shabalin disaster.
There is a dance here and there I enjoy in the current dance party themes, but mostly not as much.
- Joined
- May 25, 2014
I think my favorite RD of Grand Prix de France was actually Lagouge / Caffa who skated to some Crystal Waters tunes. They "met the assignment," but it was off the beaten path enough to be interesting, and they delivered it really well. I also find them very charming so I'm sure that helped! At the time I was even thinking, see what happens when you look past "Vogue" and the Backstreet Boys?
You've summed up my feelings on the RDs perfectly.
I've already expressed my opinion about RD in the GPF RD thread, I just want to add little bit. The music of a certain time should in theory appeal to public that was young back then, so music of the 1990s should in theory appeal to me, but somewhow it didn't. I think the reasons is that music choices in this and past seasons include mainstream music from a certain culture, but excludes multiple other cultures and subcultures. So, IMO, ISU didn't not take into account cultural and sub-cultural differences. Music must be released in certain years, but stylistically it’s not much different from decades before and after, and there is no benchmark for dance moves, they seem unspecific. I don't understand what's so special about the way people danced at discos in 1990s, to me it doesn't seem much different from the way we did it in 1980s or 2000s or even now, and this is reflected in the RD. And what's so drastically different between Madonna and C.C.Catch e.g.? I sang and danced to a different repertoire in a different language back then, there is no hope it will be skated to this season. I don't care honestly, I find this other repertoire appealing only in a way "oh, remember X, it was a hit the 90s" in a situation when I hear it unexpectedly. Those songs are silly lyrics to 3-4 cords, it's pleasant as a memory to hear them occasionally. But they might have added variety. My music interests changed multiple times, in fact I had pretty substantial other music interests already in the 1990s, I wonder why does ISU think so narrowly of their audiences?
Also, I think people should learn from the best, and create something new expanding on it. When folks like Tchaikovsky incorporated folk traditions into their music, or Liszt learned from a Gypsy fiddler, they learned from the best in the genre, then developed it, but they didn't try to bring piano or symphony orchestra to a village dance party. You see, everything used in pop music melodically, harmonically and rhythmically was invented in the period from Renaissance to early 20th century and then simplified to make it accessible and appealing, so it's a bit of a backward process. I am not saying it's bad, I think it's great, certainly a welcome alternative to some of the 20th century classical music tendencies, but it is what it is. The idea of bringing ball-room dance styles to ice dance meant learning from professionals in that field and expanding what they did using ice dynamics, not the other way around! That is, adapting ballroom movements to skating and not trying to turn skates into ballroom shoes. Bringing folk dances to ice dance had a value of learning and showcasing centuries-long traditions, doing a cultural exchange, etc., although two seasons of this felt a bit much. But bringing an average club discotheque to the ice feels like trying to learn from someone like me, who can't dance very well. Perhaps ISU wanted ice dancers to learn from the likes of Prince, who did serious choreography, but it wan't mentioned in ISU's assignment, and Prince is not a tradition one can lean on. Also people go to discos to dance and have fun, not watch somebody do it. In the ISU vision, perhaps spectators are supposed to dance along in the stands?..
Also, I think people should learn from the best, and create something new expanding on it. When folks like Tchaikovsky incorporated folk traditions into their music, or Liszt learned from a Gypsy fiddler, they learned from the best in the genre, then developed it, but they didn't try to bring piano or symphony orchestra to a village dance party. You see, everything used in pop music melodically, harmonically and rhythmically was invented in the period from Renaissance to early 20th century and then simplified to make it accessible and appealing, so it's a bit of a backward process. I am not saying it's bad, I think it's great, certainly a welcome alternative to some of the 20th century classical music tendencies, but it is what it is. The idea of bringing ball-room dance styles to ice dance meant learning from professionals in that field and expanding what they did using ice dynamics, not the other way around! That is, adapting ballroom movements to skating and not trying to turn skates into ballroom shoes. Bringing folk dances to ice dance had a value of learning and showcasing centuries-long traditions, doing a cultural exchange, etc., although two seasons of this felt a bit much. But bringing an average club discotheque to the ice feels like trying to learn from someone like me, who can't dance very well. Perhaps ISU wanted ice dancers to learn from the likes of Prince, who did serious choreography, but it wan't mentioned in ISU's assignment, and Prince is not a tradition one can lean on. Also people go to discos to dance and have fun, not watch somebody do it. In the ISU vision, perhaps spectators are supposed to dance along in the stands?..
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- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
I've managed to watch 6/10 rhythm dances from GP de France and I can't bear to watch any more. Either the music was so trivial and simply without any substance that it dragged down the whole program and made technically acomplished skaters with personality (FB/C, F/G, G/F) look vapid and flat, or the music doesn't work at all for figure skating in general (The Offspring and gliiiiding on ice just doesn't work on a physical level imo) or the music was just weird (looking at you, R/A) and bleh.
The 90s really aren't on my list of best decades for music (don't kill me, alternative fans!), but they DID have cool stuff from all kinds of genres and even party music with more ooomph than bland girl and boy band dance routines.
Madonna never was and never will be a good or even decent singer but Vogue must be one of her most terrible songs. No idea why anyone liked the spice Gilrd, ever. Surely not because of their "music"? And BSBs are old hat in figure skating by now.
I hope this was just and unfortunate concentration of really bad programs and at the next GPs the mix will be more bearable, but watching didn't fill me with confidence.
The 90s really aren't on my list of best decades for music (don't kill me, alternative fans!), but they DID have cool stuff from all kinds of genres and even party music with more ooomph than bland girl and boy band dance routines.
Madonna never was and never will be a good or even decent singer but Vogue must be one of her most terrible songs. No idea why anyone liked the spice Gilrd, ever. Surely not because of their "music"? And BSBs are old hat in figure skating by now.
I hope this was just and unfortunate concentration of really bad programs and at the next GPs the mix will be more bearable, but watching didn't fill me with confidence.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Replying to my own comment to updateWell, to me, and that's perhaps because I know the music from this generation better than the music of previous decades chosen by the ISU, it's working out better than the previous couple years.
Is it exciting per se ? I don't know if I would go that far. I would still prefer to clearly see dance and not just a dance pattern somewhere in there. I think the teams are having fun (for the most part) with costumes and music so that makes me think their choreos also like this era better
Disappointed : yes, this is music that I prefer to some other themes we have had previously, but that's in theory. In practice, too much BSB or Madonna or Ricky. Too bad teams were not very creative here.
And again, yes, I agree with the comments " where is the actual dancing ? "
It's getting worse and worse.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
I'll take a look. I actually quite liked the last past years as I don't really follow the music, but for some reason this GP in France just particularly grated on my ears. JGP was a bit boring, as it was dominated by Martin. Alternative JGP stage 1 had a couple of national songs, but they sounded like something out of 1950s? I assume it was sang in the 1990s.
This year, I basically like FD more than RD, while in all previous years (I didn't start watching dance till 2020 or 2021 after my trip to Skate America in Vegas) I much preferred RD, since it was more upbeat. So, basically I was the target audience for changes. 90s, for some reason, are harder for me to enjoy than 70s or 80s.
I took Khudabrdiyeva's thoughts to heart too, and I will continue watching, though chances are I will be muting Vogue the moment it starts barking and pounding nails.
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- Joined
- May 27, 2021
I see what's absolutely wrong about the theme.
Music is already limited because obviously not any music is suitable for PSt.
But what is even worse is the "high energy" rule. Many couples had to change their dances because of the rule. Many iconic songs of 90s don't fit the "high energy" rule. This has led to a very limited choice of music. Some skaters, like F/G, use remixes, but I don't like it, I don't think modern instrumental reflects "the essence of the 1990s".
Music is already limited because obviously not any music is suitable for PSt.
But what is even worse is the "high energy" rule. Many couples had to change their dances because of the rule. Many iconic songs of 90s don't fit the "high energy" rule. This has led to a very limited choice of music. Some skaters, like F/G, use remixes, but I don't like it, I don't think modern instrumental reflects "the essence of the 1990s".
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
I did a search for music of 1990s, and the first song that popped up was Loosing My Religion. Heh, hardly a cheery tune right of the bat.
Found this article too, which might have been written in Ancient Egyptian from what i understood from it, lol: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/50-best-songs-of-the-nineties-252530/
"The Nineties music boom was a gold rush for singles – everywhere you went on the radio, you heard a high-speed collision of different beats. Every style of music out there was booming, from grunge to gangsta rap, from dancehall to disco, from riot-grrrl punk to TRL midriff mall-pop, with a thousand different electronica schools and nearly as many Wu-Tang solo records. Whatever kind of noise was ringing your bells, the Nineties held more of it than any fan could absorb. There’s no way one list could sum up such a bountiful decade – hell, you could run through two or three hundred great tunes from summer ’94 alone. But these 50 crucial songs capture glorious moments from all over the Nineties music explosion – hits, obscurities, cult classics, dance-floor jams, guitar ragers, karaoke standards. Here we are now. Entertain us."
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- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I bet none of these top 50 songs are used this year by our dance teams.. and probably many do not fit the PST nor the uplifting theme... but it does illustrate HOW MANY options were available. I wish that many of these dance teams had chosen something closer to them : for instance, why aren't the Swedes skating on Ace of Base ? It was a super popular band in the 90s, from Sweden. I somehow understand Ancient Egyptian and I am pretty in agreement with what's written.. yeah... I was just getting into music in the 90s... and it was coming from all sides and styles. It was such a wonderful era of musical diversity. The grunge movement was big... but there was also a lot of electronica and many other genres.
I am not keeping tabs on songs chosen this year but to see so much Madonna, BSB and Ricky Martin, by the way, none of them are mentioned on that list, is the real problem. When people claim to be creative and they are not, it just doesn't work with me
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You understand "riot-grrrl punk" and "TRL midriff mall-pop"? You're more talented than I thought, and I thought you were VERY talented!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
To me, the problem is not so much the music as the dances. What were the popular dances of the 1990s that ice dance teams are invited to try their hand at? Hammertime? The Carlton? (Well, at least hammertime gives solid instruction to the costume designers. )
)- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
"Is the Olympic season RD exciting?"
No. I wish they would stop with the decades theme obsessions and get back to some of the basics of traditional ice dance styles.
Formerly, compulsory dances separated skilled ice dancers from those who lacked blade skills.
No. I wish they would stop with the decades theme obsessions and get back to some of the basics of traditional ice dance styles.
Formerly, compulsory dances separated skilled ice dancers from those who lacked blade skills.
Exactly my thoughts! I want to see skaters dancing actual patterns, in hold!
Honestly, most of the RDs the past few years have been complete cringe fests - which mostly is not the fault of the skaters. The ISU is trying to make something seem 'cool,' and they are just out of touch.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
I never could stand the Spice Girls, but Fear/Gibson do bring their songs to life in their RD, thus I can tolerate it. And yes, I can hardly believe that Fournier Beaudry/Cizeron are using Vogue for their FD. I thought they were more sophisticated than that.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
What was wrong with R/A's music? I always find their dynamism and music choices fantastic.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
This's my big takeaway, too. The singers are not good singers, the composers/song writers are not good composers or songwriters, the boys in the bands are not particularly accomplished musicians,
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- Joined
- Jan 31, 2019
That second sentence was illegible to me. I went through the list and I literally don't know a single song or band. I recognized Britney Spears and Nirvana, but I can't even recall what they sing off hand. I just know they are big names in music.
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