Johnny Weir and His Coaches

[libby]

I certainly would in another Forum. Over there it is not enough to be a Johnny fan, one has to be only a Johnny fan. Anything one says including praise is interpreted as bashing Johnny unless the praise is the ultimate compliment.
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Board dragging is not allowed, Joe. You were kicked off of that Forum for attacking and feuding with Johnny fans, and your version of those events is absurdly skewed at best. Let it go already.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Before 2006 Johnny was a young, inspired skater who had some great programs but not the most consistent jumps. He could have won the 2006 Olympics if he wanted it bad enough. He admittedly did not train as he should have, was careless enough to "miss his bus" before his freeskate at Torino. Wisely, he saw this mistake in judgement and switched coaches and made a fresh start.
Now I have not been the greatest fan of his the last few years, but obviously he has made technical improvements. Not improvements as in adding more jumps to his arsenal, but in making the jumps he had consistent and clean. His landing are almost always calm, and clean and graceful, his 3 axel has been very consistent. Unlike some people and in contrast to what I said previously I do that the Johnny will land a ratified quad....i think this season. And he will do it for the same reason that he put the quad in at Skate America....to play cat and mouse with Evan.
So far this season Johnny was proven a better skater than Evan....and that is all that matters.

 

[bekalc]

Before 2006 Johnny was a young, inspired skater who had some great programs but not the most consistent jumps. He could have won the 2006 Olympics if he wanted it bad enough. He admittedly did not train as he should have, was careless enough to "miss his bus" before his freeskate at Torino. Wisely, he saw this mistake in judgement and switched coaches and made a fresh start.

Really I don't think the Judges were going to let anyone but Plushenko win the 2006 Olympics. They didn't feel the other guys deserved it. Heck, even Yagudin said the other guys didn't deserve it.

 

[Tonichelle]

wasn't Johnny the one saying he was skating for silver because Plushy was destined for gold (paraphrasing, obviously) which was one of many quotes that he got nailed for in the press?

Whehter or not you have a shot at winning, I think it helps to go for broke in an event like that.

 

[Dee4707]

Really I don't think the Judges were going to let anyone but Plushenko win the 2006 Olympics.

I think you are absolutely correct about that statement. As much as I like Plushenko, I felt cheated with his LP.

Dee

 

[Tonichelle]

I think both of his programs were empty... his SP didn't go with the music and all... especially the footwork...

 

[psycho]

Before 2006 Johnny was a young, inspired skater who had some great programs but not the most consistent jumps. He could have won the 2006 Olympics if he wanted it bad enough. He admittedly did not train as he should have, was careless enough to "miss his bus" before his freeskate at Torino. Wisely, he saw this mistake in judgement and switched coaches and made a fresh start.

Okay, let's not make stuff up. He was well trained at the 2006 Olympics, as can be evidenced by him, by those who watched the practices in Torino and by TAT. The "not training enough" happened after the Olympics and lasted until spring 2007. Also, see his 2006 nationals skate a month before the Olympics. Yes, it was non-COP friendly, but he was not out of shape. In fact, he landed more combinations than needed.

 

[bekalc]

wasn't Johnny the one saying he was skating for silver because Plushy was destined for gold (paraphrasing, obviously) which was one of many quotes that he got nailed for in the press?

Whehter or not you have a shot at winning, I think it helps to go for broke in an event like that.

Well, I didn't care for Johnny's statements either. Only because it was self defeating. Someone said that perhaps if the other men were landing their jumps, perhaps the judges would have considered giving them higher PCS. But the judges had seen these guys all season long, and couldn't have been "that" impressed or convinced they deserved to be anywhere close to Plushenko. Once again I don't think Johnny has a killer instinct... For example Alexei Yagudin would at times come in to Worlds and he would have lost a lot of competitions to Plushenko, but he'd come in and he'd just NAIL his programs at worlds, that's what you call a Killer Instinct. Plushenko eventually got it, Petrenko had it (well for his Worlds win.. and bronze medal)

But I don't think Weir has it. And that's the difference between a champion and a good skater.

As for Plushenko, I'm willing to cut him some slack for his Olympic long. He was coming off a bad injury, had lots of pressure etc.

 

[psycho]

Once again I don't think Johnny has a killer instinct... For example Alexei Yagudin would at times come in to Worlds and he would have lost a lot of competitions to Plushenko, but he'd come in and he'd just NAIL his programs at worlds, that's what you call a Killer Instinct. Plushenko eventually got it, Petrenko had it (well for his Worlds win.. and bronze medal)

I actually agree with that. TAT alluded to something like that in her commentary. She also said that's why he doesn't want to try the quad even though he does it almost perfectly in practice.
Honestly, I don't think that lack of killer instict is a criticm. I think that makes him a better person. And in the end, that matters more. At least to me it does.

 

[siberia82]

Honestly, I don't think that lack of killer instict is a criticm. I think that makes him a better person. And in the end, that matters more. At least to me it does.

Nicely said, psycho!

 

[Tonichelle]

I've never thought of Johnny as a good competitive skater. That's why I consider him tied with Evan as best for the US... Evan's the better competitor (2006 being the best example), Johnny the better skater... not basing it on artistry but putting their skills side by side... Johnny's basics are better.

that's not a bash and there's nothing wrong with Johnny not having that mow 'em down attitude... but at the same time it can be frustrating because winning seems to be everything by so many "fans."

 

[bekalc]

I actually agree with that. TAT alluded to something like that in her commentary. She also said that's why he doesn't want to try the quad even though he does it almost perfectly in practice.
Honestly, I don't think that lack of killer instict is a criticm. I think that makes him a better person. And in the end, that matters more. At least to me it does.

Why does it make Johnny a better person? That's ridiculous and insulting to a lot of great champions in the past (like Michelle Kwan for example)

Enjoying going out into the ice, and putting everything you've got and doing your absolute best doesn't make you a bad person.

I mean it's a game....! That's why people train as hard as they do, if your not in it to win, than why not just go find another career. I mean you can always skate in your free time.

Just because someone is very competitive, doesn't mean they wouldn't be the first to help someone out in real life. And just because someone isn't that competitive doesn't mean that they would be that charitable in real life either.

 

[psycho]

It's just my opinion. I personally don't think "killer instinct" is a good quality. It implies a certain level of ruthlessness that bothers me. You are free to think otherwise, I am not arguing with you.

 

[bekalc]

It's just my opinion. I personally don't think "killer instinct" is a good quality. It implies a certain level of ruthlessness that bothers me. You are free to think otherwise, I am not arguing with you.

It's just my opinion. I personally don't think "killer instinct" is a good quality. It implies a certain level of ruthlessness that bothers me. You are free to think otherwise, I am not arguing with you.

In what sense. Once again, it's a game, a sport. Being competitive and focused doesn't mean your a bad person. Not being competitive and not being focused, doesn't mean that your a good person. For example may I point out Ludmilla Tourischeva and Olga Korbut.

Ludmilla is one of the greatest champions in the sport of gymnastics. She was undefeated for four freakin years, and is one 2 in the last 36 years to win the Olympic All Around title, while she was the reigning World All Around Champ (ask Shawn Johnson how hard that one is)...

Ludmilla never smiled and was all business in the competition. Her discipline was immense. This clip right here will give you what a killer instinct that girl had.. Notice how the bars are collapsing and Ludmilla doesn't even notice, dismounts and doesn't even look back. The woman was a Champion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJFguSwBmvM


In contrast Olga Korbut never beat Ludmilla for the major all around champions. Olga smiled more and was cutier and some flashy tricks and the audiences liked her better. Although many including Nadia will say that Ludmilla had the better basics.. LOL!

However, inspite of Ludmilla's killer instincts, Ludmilla was known as an incredibly gracious competitor. Nadia in her book talked about how when Nadia beat her at the European Championships in 1975 that Ludmilla was so gracious and kind to her...

In contrast a lot of people who have associated themselves with Korbut, will say that Korbut is not so nice. Although in fairness Korbut had a tough life.

The point is being a good competitor doesn't mean your a bad person, or not a kind person. And not being a good competitor doesn't mean your automatically "a good person."

Once again it's a game, and a lot of skaters represent it. Only one person can win the game, and they all train hard to win. I bet a lot of athletes would be insulted if they felt that any athlete was holding back because they wanted to be nice.

 

[jennylovskt]

Seeing last year and so far this year, I think that at least we could say that Johnny's new coach changing didn't help, and probably has been an obstacle for his artistic side of the skating. It surely helped to steady his technical perspective, and maintained, but did not improve, his technical abilities.

The thing is Johnny is not Johnny himself any more. Too much discipline maybe has killed his free spirit, and it has shown in his skating. In that sense, I think Johnny is a person with very delicate spirit and tough to handle if one doesn't know how, and was not careful enough.

I don't see any significant change will come unless his coach would allow him to shop around for other choreographers other than within his coach team.

 

[Ptichka]

Well, Johnny did have Anissina and Kitarieva work on his programs last season, and neither of those ladies is associated with team Zmievskaya.

 

[jennylovskt]

Well, Johnny did have Anissina and Kitarieva work on his programs last season, and neither of those ladies is associated with team Zmievskaya.

Anissina worked with Johnny in 2006-2007 season only while Johnny was still with Priscilla Hill and choreographed beautiful SP and LP which I liked very much. (But I was the tiny minority who liked those two programs.) Faye Kitarieva did choreograph for Johnny's SP last year. I thought she was a long time associates with the Zmievskaya team. Maybe I was wrong.

 

[libby]

I've never thought of Johnny as a good competitive skater. That's why I consider him tied with Evan as best for the US... Evan's the better competitor (2006 being the best example), Johnny the better skater...

OK, but if Evan's the better competitor, why isn't he going to the Grand Prix Final?

 

[Tinymavy15]

I've never thought of Johnny as a good competitive skater. That's why I consider him tied with Evan as best for the US... Evan's the better competitor (2006 being the best example), Johnny the better skater... not basing it on artistry but putting their skills side by side... Johnny's basics are better.

I think you made a great point. Johnny is the better skater, but Evan is the better competitor... and the drama is which trumps what.

 

[antmanb]

OK, but if Evan's the better competitor, why isn't he going to the Grand Prix Final?

I can't remember which events each skater had but disparity of competition in each event is certainly a factor in the GP.

Lord knows the British pairs skaters Kemp and King are not that great, yet they came fourth at NHK to get 9 points. NHK was a particularly poor level for the pairs and the commentators on Eurosport have been the first to point out where the GP events were good from a spectators perspective (i.e. had real competition and depth in the field) and where it wasn't.

Personally i don't enjoy watching Evan's skating and do prefer to watch Johnny but if you're talking about proof of a competitor surely medal count is one way and internationally Evan does have Johnny beaten on that count...for now!

Ant