Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

[Joesitz (RIP)]

So which perception is it that Skate Canada is trying to address?

(a) Figure skating is less difficult than hockey? Or

(b) Figure skating is less manly than hockey?

None of the above. Men don't eat Quiche and they don't wear sequins.

Isn't this how the subject started out?

 

[Mathman]

Isn't this how the subject started out?

No, I don't think so. The subject started out with this clip (see post #1 on this thread.)

This is an ABC news feature (opening credits featuring the song "macho man") reporting on the supposed campaign by Skate Canada to "butch up the sport (snicker) and make it more macho."

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=13270441&ch=4543756&src=news

After many complaints, Skate Canada issued a statement that said, no, no, that's all wrong. We don't want to make the sport less gay, we want to convey he idea that it is difficult.

The controversy hinged on what Skate Canada publicity director Debbi Wilkes meant when she said that we need to emphasize the "toughness" of the sport.

So the controversy is, did Skate Canada intend "tough" to mean "macho" and opposed to "girly?" Or did "tough" mean "difficult" as opposed to "easy," which is the position that Skate Canada is taking now.

The part about costumes was kind of an afterthought to the main discussion.

 

[wishmaker]

My question is - why are some people so offended by unitards, costumes with elaborate decor or being part of the art world (be it music, dancing, skating..). That's how artists are, they have their own idea of uniqueness, be it with the way they dress each day or with the costumes they wear, be it the way they express themselves with their manner of speaking, etc.. Going back to the topic of MACHO-MAKEOVER, Mr. Thompson has explained his part and that's good; and I don't agree, definitely don't agree with Elvis because figure skating is an art where the skaters may act MACHO when the music calls for it or may not at all. But that doesn't make the skater weak if he doesn't have that Macho touch but actually skates to the required elements of the competition. So, artists are artists and nobody can tell one artist to be macho if he/she doesn't feel like and to wear or not to wear costumes. There are different artists in the world and no one is alike.

 

[DragonPhoenix]

My question is - why are some people so offended by unitards, costumes with elaborate decor or being part of the art world (be it music, dancing, skating..). That's how artists are, they have their own idea of uniqueness, be it with the way they dress each day or with the costumes they wear, be it the way they express themselves with their manner of speaking, etc.. Going back to the topic of MACHO-MAKEOVER, Mr. Thompson has explained his part and that's good; and I don't agree, definitely don't agree with Elvis because figure skating is an art where the skaters may act MACHO when the music calls for it or may not at all. But that doesn't make the skater weak if he doesn't have that Macho touch but actually skates to the required elements of the competition. So, artists are artists and nobody can tell one artist to be macho if he/she doesn't feel like and to wear or not to wear costumes. There are different artists in the world and no one is alike.

:agree:

Very well said.

 

[wishmaker]

I read this news dated May 13......http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-skating/news/newsid=10678.html#skate+canada+clairifies+rebranding..... and I think this topic will have endless opinions. Gosssssshhhhhhhh

 

[Mathman]

^ OK, so it is about costumes.

 

[wishmaker]

In my opinion, Figure skating is a sport and also an art, fused to be very interesting. The skaters are athletes and artists all in one. Their athleticism and artistry/creativity are all put into what we call Figure Skating. You cannot separate the music, costume, choreography and interpretaion and the skaters must be absolutely strong technically if they have to go on the ice for the SP/LP balancing with one/both legs on just the blades of their skates.

 

[Particle Man]

The costume should represent and reflect what is being expressed in the music. Some music should have frilly costumes, some plain costumes. They're just being disingenuous, claiming skaters should "have plainer costumes to not detract from the skating" when what they really want is skaters to "have plainer costumes to have the sport be taken more seriously by the unwashed masses." "Gayness" is related but not central to the issue. The fundamental issue is -- should skating be what it is, or should it sell out. I choose the former.

 

[DragonPhoenix]

The costume should represent and reflect what is being expressed in the music. Some music should have frilly costumes, some plain costumes. They're just being disingenuous, claiming skaters should "have plainer costumes to not detract from the skating" when what they really want is skaters to "have plainer costumes to have the sport be taken more seriously by the unwashed masses." "Gayness" is related but not central to the issue. The fundamental issue is -- should skating be what it is, or should it sell out. I choose the former.

Right. I think you are right on the money, and I think that your point is the crux of the matter. I think that they are fooling themselves.

 

[Tonichelle]

So I joined the orchestra instead. That was OK because I played the baritone horn -- a manly instument if ever there was one.

so manly THIS girl became first chair BOTH years the only other person in the baritone "section" was a guy great instrument, though... I miss playing.

 

[mycelticblessing]

^ I played the baritone horn too! Except we call it an euphonium. It is sort of 'manly', but I couldn't complain, as there was a girl who got put into the tuba section!

I read this news dated May 13......http://www.ctvolympics.ca/figure-skating/news/newsid=10678.html#skate+canada+clairifies+rebranding..... and I think this topic will have endless opinions. Gosssssshhhhhhhh

Looks like Canada really is promoting the V/M warmup attire look!

As for frilly outfits, today's crop of Canadian skaters aren't ones for gaudy getups.

Canadian dance duo Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir dressed head-to-toe in black for their free dance program at the world championship in Los Angeles, en route to winning a bronze medal. The skaters believed the judges could focus more on the intricacy of their moves if they were dressed more simply.

 

[antmanb]

OT: I believe that the assumption of by looking the manners of a man, one could determine whether he is a gay or not gay is totally wrong. That is what I was talking about.

But mostly you can! Obviously lpaying any "guessing" game means that you get it wrong but is it any more or less wrong than the presumption that all men are straight unless they state otherwise, forcing gay people (regardless of how "obvious" they are) to have to "out" themselves to a new person every time they meet them? If gay people are man enough to rebut the presumption of straightness, can't straight guys man up enough to rebut a presumption of gayness too?

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

My question is - why are some people so offended by unitards, costumes with elaborate decor or being part of the art world (be it music, dancing, skating..).

No one is offended with elaborate costumes in Las Vegas or Disney on Ice. They are expected to be glitzy. But if one is paying big bucks to see a sport they are not interested in elaborate decor.

You really are joking about the world of Art. No? Your examples show a comparison of Sport with professional stage presentations - not sport. btw, if you go to a Concert hall you will see all the players in basic black including the women. So not all Music, even in the Artistic way, is open to sequins. Not even boy bands, or boy singers.

 

[gkelly]

No one is offended with elaborate costumes in Las Vegas or Disney on Ice. They are expected to be glitzy. But if one is paying big bucks to see a sport they are not interested in elaborate decor.

I would agree with this to a large degree.

Take it from the perspective of women's skating. Will people take it more seriously as sport if there's an emphasis on the technical and athletic aspects of the sport?


Encouraging female skaters to wear costumes that emphasize their physical attractiveness and sexuality might be a way to attract more straight men, and gay women who enjoy ogling pretty girls, as well as those, generally straight women and gay men, who like watching fashion programs.

But that would be attracting viewers to watch skating as a fashion show/pageant type of event.

It would undermine the fact that the skaters are athletes. The women as well as the men. The gay skaters as well as the straight skaters.

And to a large extent, I find that it's easier to appreciate the artistic aspects of the skating -- of how the skater moves his or her body across the ice and in relation to the music -- when the skater is wearing practice clothes and my eye isn't distracted by sparkles or by extraneous bits on the hanging off the costumes.

 

[antmanb]

So not all Music, even in the Artistic way, is open to sequins. Not even boy bands, or boy singers.

Really? Sequins and crystals/gems are getting a lot of use in men's fashion and not just Haute Couture but high street fashion brands. Below are just a few off the top of my head but i see this kind of fashion on gay and straight men in the street all the time, and definitely on pop stars music groups.

I know Affliction (which i think is US brand) uses lots of gems/sequins in their skull motifs.

Topman in the UK are a high street brand that use a lot of sparkly thigns on their mens wear.

The Italian brand De Puta Madre (excuse the expletives but that's the name of the brand) also.

Ant

 

[jennylovskt]

But mostly you can! Obviously lpaying any "guessing" game means that you get it wrong but is it any more or less wrong than the presumption that all men are straight unless they state otherwise, forcing gay people (regardless of how "obvious" they are) to have to "out" themselves to a new person every time they meet them?

I see there is no reason to go from here. Or we will get into a heaty arguement in the legal department. Even though I have plenty to say about it, I will stop here.

... can't straight guys man up enough to rebut a presumption of gayness too?

Obviously, that is the problem. It is one of the reasons that prevented many boys from entering into figure skating in the first place. It is one of the reasons that prevented many families from letting their boys entering figure skating. That is one of the issues that Skate Canada wants to address. But in this stereotypical presumption filled North America, a simple, logical movement has been causing so big a wave.

 

[Mathman]

That is one of the issues that Skate Canada wants to address.

But now Skate Canada is denying that it wants to address this issue (the issue of gay stereotyping in figure skating), that it ever had any intention of speaking to this issue, and is asserting that anyone (CBC and ABC for instance) who claims that Skate Canada raised this issue is a bald-faced liar.

 

[jennylovskt]

But now Skate Canada is denying that it wants to address this issue (the issue of gay stereotyping in figure skating), that it ever had any intention of speaking to this issue, and is asserting that anyone (CBC and ABC for instance) who claims that Skate Canada raised this issue is a bald-faced liar.

That is something that I cannot defend Mr.Thompson. But it's perfectly understandable since most of the people and organizations in North America do not want to touch the sensitive issues regarding to gays and be capped on a "bias" hat.

 

[antmanb]

Obviously, that is the problem. It is one of the reasons that prevented many boys from entering into figure skating in the first place. It is one of the reasons that prevented many families from letting their boys entering figure skating. That is one of the issues that Skate Canada wants to address. But in this stereotypical presumption filled North America, a simple, logical movement has been causing so big a wave.

That's not what i thought Skate Canada were addressing at all, in fact they've fallen over themselves to say that "tough" was used to been not easy.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Really? Sequins and crystals/gems are getting a lot of use in men's fashion and not just Haute Couture but high street fashion brands. Below are just a few off the top of my head but i see this kind of fashion on gay and straight men in the street all the time, and definitely on pop stars music groups.

I know Affliction (which i think is US brand) uses lots of gems/sequins in their skull motifs.

Topman in the UK are a high street brand that use a lot of sparkly thigns on their mens wear.

The Italian brand De Puta Madre (excuse the expletives but that's the name of the brand) also.

Ant

I don't watch boy bands except when they are on Sat.NiteLive and they are usually in very unkempt clothing. No problem.
What is interesting is you named a few boy bands who do wear ornamental accoutrements (not surprise for you to jump to exceptions) So you seem to agree with the poster who thought ornamental costumes belong in Sports. No?