Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Suggestions to appeal more boys watching FS

men skaters should
-wear jeans and shirts or T-shirts, or sport uniforms. No sequins, feathers allowed
-choose music amongst those genres (rock, metal, hip hop and techno)
-more agressive style of skating
-no balletic moves, but moves used in hip hop and techno

Would it work? hmm, I don't know, maybe some boys will watch it.

disclaimer - what is written above it doesn't mean I hope this will happen, but some changes will probably do good.

Geo - I would go along with that. I watch skate boarding and I do not miss the sequins. That sport is extremely popular both on ice and on rollers.

I do think boys in figure skating ought to have good line in their presentation to whatever music they choose.

 

[Tonichelle]

I've been rewatching old skating tapes as of late... pre-CoP... in the 'height of skating' in the 90s ... there were a lot of boring skates in that generation too... and some programs looked really similar.... you do what works to get the judges to give you first place in either system...

 

[janetfan]

I've been rewatching old skating tapes as of late... pre-CoP... in the 'height of skating' in the 90s ... there were a lot of boring skates in that generation too... and some programs looked really similar.... you do what works to get the judges to give you first place in either system...

If that wasn't the case there would be something very strange in your perception. Next watch skating from the 80's and you will see that looks less exciting than the 90's. Then watch the 70's and bingo - it will seem less exciting than the 80's. And so forth , etc.
Try and tell a young Mao or Yuna fan than Katarina was a very accomplished skater or that Dorothy had a great 2-axle (and a straighter back than either Yuna or Mao) . They will yawn because they are used to seeing a certain type of skating and don't realize or take time to consider how each decade brings new advances in technique and artistry. I think a choreographed smile is something they accept the same as lip synching. Many see any flapping arm as equal to Oksana's arms movements. It is what they are used to and those of us ancient ones sometimes see it a little differently.

 

[Tonichelle]

I grew up watching skating, Janetfan, I'm not one of the newbies that just started watching with the last couple of olympic games... Granted I wasn't around for Scott Hamilton's Olympic win, and I am sure Brian Boitano was on my tv screen when I was 3 winning his olympic title but I couldn't tell you a thing about it

My tapes generally focus on the height of professional skating (which means skaters from the 80s and EARLY 90s) but there are a few exceptions...

As much as I LOVE Kurt Browning as a skater, some of his earlier competitive pieces are DULLLLLLL... where I appreciate his skating in those cases is the power of his skating and the control (Olympic skates aside lol)

 

[gkelly]

I think fans who complain that there was so much variety in the past and everyone looks the same now may be relying on memory, so of course they remember all the memorable performances and forget about the forgettable boring ones. And may be comparing memories of five or ten or twenty years' worth of past variety with one year's worth of present variety.

 

[Tonichelle]

I agree, gkelly.

 

[janetfan]

So what you want to say is that skating becomes more exciting in general with each decade so that we, not so ancient ones, can not really tell that a lot of programmes in the past were actually quite exciting back then. Well, I don't consider myself ancient as of yet , but I can understand that one might favour the type of skating one grew up with and appreciates mostly the qualities skating had in general in that era.

So maybe this is more directed at a basic, underlying style and type of skating and not so much on individuals or programmes. I could understand that. Even though I would still find it hard to believe that back then the majority of programmes was less boring than today. The most interesting stuff will always be rather rare, I dare say.

I think what Tonichelle meant, and I agree, is that there are interesting programmes within each generation and also a great amount of boring skates. Most of us have seen a lot of skating clips from the past and can still appreciate the status of a programme within the time it was skated in. It is not as if anyone would say all older programmes are boring. And I would not dream of saying all the newer stuff is great.

I suppose, I can't know for sure, that top skaters today, even from a younger generation, can well appreciate good skating from the past. At least Yu-Na should have watched some old tapes from Brian



That provides me with the opportunity to say something I wanted to say for a long time. I don't like choreographed facial expressions. Be it smiles or contortions of pain or tragic glances to the ceiling or whatever. Now it's off my chest...

I agree with what both of you were saying but was only pointing out that whether older fans like aspects of 6.0 and some of the skaters of bygone eras we have to undoubtably see and admit that progress comes with each new generation.
It is the same in tennis, soccer, basketball, etc.
I think the skating is better today - the coaching is better, the facilties are more plentiful and better (it went down in Russia but is supposed to be coming back).
But speaking for myself It is starting to feel a little over produced. I know Mao had an off year , new coach, - but please just let her skate and be herself. She has so much talent it was shocking to see her so off at Worlds. Yuna's SP and the way she performed it was brilliant. But her LP looked so progrmamed - wave your arm here, smile now. It is hard to complain about such great skating but I think Yuna and Mao would have been more impressive in their free skates - if their free skates were a liitle more free. Maybe I am not explaining this right - i have made toooo many posts here today and my brain is melting down.

And as far as I know Yuna grew up with Michelle as her idol. That is who she wanted to be like - and whose programs she committed to memory. Of course Brian has shown her the tapes of Janet Lynn. Many coaches do that when teaching expression and musical interpretation.

 

[jennylovskt]

Just the fact that men skaters use classical music is a turn off. This kind of music is perceived as boring and girly.

Shocking! So what do you say? All men in a couple of centuries ago were girly? Does pop culture have to squeeze into everything? Will what Evan Lysacek and Tanith Belbin promoted a couple of years ago be a trend? :banging::banging:

Suggestions to appeal more boys watching FS

men skaters should
-wear jeans and shirts or T-shirts, or sport uniforms. No sequins, feathers allowed
-choose music amongst those genres (rock, metal, hip hop and techno)
-more agressive style of skating
-no balletic moves, but moves used in hip hop and techno

Would it work? hmm, I don't know, maybe some boys will watch it.

disclaimer - what is written above it doesn't mean I hope this will happen, but some changes will probably do good.

The day figure skating turns into this is the day I will stop watching it completely. It's just me, not a threat.

 

[Tonichelle]

Evan and Tanith promoted what???

 

[jennylovskt]

Evan and Tanith promoted what???

hip-hop in figure skating.

 

[Mathman]

And as far as I know Yuna grew up with Michelle as her idol. That is who she wanted to be like - and whose programs she committed to memory. Of course Brian has shown her the tapes of Janet Lynn. Many coaches do that when teaching expression and musical interpretation.

In fact, Lori Nichol used Janet Lynn tapes to teach Michelle.

As for sports getting better and better as time marches on, American football is a good example. Twenty years ago the players weighed 250 pounds. Now they weigh 350 pounds.

 

[R.D.]

IMO FS is not a sport, but a discipline with elements of athleticism and artistry.

Agreed; however, the Cop is putting more "sport" into it IMO. That's probably a big reason why a lot of former fans are turned off by it.

 

[gio]

Shocking! So what do you say? All men in a couple of centuries ago were girly? Does pop culture have to squeeze into everything? Will what Evan Lysacek and Tanith Belbin promoted a couple of years ago be a trend? :banging::banging:

I didn't say I think this way, but that generally speaking classical music is considered boring by the younger generation. And skating to pieces such as Swan Lake and Nutcracker is considered girly by the new generation of boys.
The fact is this as eleonora.d put the example younger persons that do not watch regularly FS prefer to watch Contesti doing Rednex rather than a Swan Lake or Rachmaninoff.

So skaters should modernize their programs and get rid of flamboyant costumes to appeal the younger generation. Maybe at the end Joe is right. The combination of costumes, music and balletic moves is a turn off for a potential audience. On the other hand as Red Dog said there are those fans who likes the artsitic aspect of FS and now do not watch it anymore, because of COP that turned it more into a sport. Hence the decline.
So FS is now in a troublesome situation. It has to chose the path to follow.

 

[antmanb]

Absolutely no fun!! the point of Sport is the same as in every Sport.... Win.

I take it if the only point of FS is winning that you only bother watching the final group at each event then?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Artistry is in the eye of the beholder and often it's creator. In my experience it's older snobs who only consider ballet and classical art to be "art". The same kind of people won't deign to acknowledge video instalations/performance art pieces as "art".

It's like anything it all boils down to taste. Personally I wouldn't waste the money going a ballet because I know i'd not enjoy it and likely fall asleep (although i have seen some modern ballets and made it through to the end!). I'd gladly admit to being a philistine for finding ballet to be "boring" and that also means I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I am the overall arbiter of what is considered "art" based purely on my own taste.

People watch skating with their own preconceived ideas. Personally having exposed myself very little to ballet or opera, I couldn't namethe piece of music a skater is skating to and unless the ballet or opera are based on stories i know (AND i'm told what the music is) then i wouldn't know whether they are imitating a different art form, or following a story someone adapted for ballet or opera. I think that therefore i might miss somethings in some sklating performances just as others with a great knowledge if the ballet opera might read too much into a skater's performance because of their previous knowledge of the piece.

Ultimately the skaters have to perform elements to get the points and they will not always go with the music. That's why i like it when skaters use pieces that have been composed for the their performance (like Abitbol & Bernadis )

The judges rank them to give them titles and us fans (who have no input to teh outcome of a competition) get what we want from skating. If that's a great enjoyment of the performances we've watched, or a great enjoyment in wishing the whole thing was different scratch then so be it.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Here he is in his skating costume. :yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Haines

Wow so Johnny wasn't the first to skate in a costume that could be described an an icicle on crack

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

One has to remember that the Father of Us All, skated in costume to music as a professional not as a competitor. We are talking about Non-Show Competition. No one is against Show and its tinsel ways.

 

[Mathman]

Suggestions to appeal more boys watching FS:

-choose music amongst those genres (rock, metal, hip hop and techno)

How about this? Almost every rink has both little league hockey and figure skating programs.

So what if you set aside the last five minutes of hockey practice, crank up the rock and roll, and have "express yourself" time?

Then little by little the coach could say, "hey, anybody up for learning how to do a toe-loop?"

 

[janetfan]

That provides me with the opportunity to say something I wanted to say for a long time. I don't like choreographed facial expressions. Be it smiles or contortions of pain or tragic glances to the ceiling or whatever. Now it's off my chest...

Yagudin was a great skater. The only thing I didn't like about him were the dramatic effects that Tat drilled into him. As an "actor" he never convinced me that he was an heroic or tragic figure. That is why I prefer Plushy. He lets his skating speak for itself. Both are great and I guess it is a matter of personal preference as to which one we liked better.

 

[Tonichelle]

How about this? Almost every rink has both little league hockey and figure skating programs.

So what if you set aside the last five minutes of hockey practice, crank up the rock and roll, and have "express yourself" time?

Then little by little the coach could say, "hey, anybody up for learning how to do a toe-loop?"

unfortunately, in the US, most hockey coaches wouldn't even give the suggestion the time of day.

even "figure skating" teachers/coaches push the boys into hockey... not all, but some... my brother quit skating because the local "team" kept telling him "yeah, you can learn to jump, but we need you to play hockey, too." um, why? because that's what boys are supposed to do? no thanks.