Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

[jennylovskt]

In fact, Russian society tends to be very homophobic - but in their culture the connection "graceful - homosexual" just doesn't exist that way.

Same as in China, Japan, and Korea.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Ballet just bores a lot of people in the states, I think, more than what they're wearing. She's just an un'cultured' (better than uneducated, I guess) person, and those are everywhere not just here

This is very true. Although Ballet has increased in attendance since the one night stands of yesteryear, the public appreciates much more the pyrotechnic acrobatic tricks on TV and not in a theatre. and it's free.

As to men in tights: the very stylized dance requires good line and what better way for men to display that? and it's traditional!

A balletomane once said that the only reason she goes to the ballet is to see Nureyev in tights.

 

[Hsuhs]

In fact, Russian society tends to be very homophobic - but in their culture the connection "graceful - homosexual" just doesn't exist that way.

True, the connection isn't that pronounced. I have an impression, it's more of a primitive "mannerism=homosexuality" link.

Russian homophobia is nationalism-based, IMO, i.e. "if all men were like that, who would women have their children with? The nation is dying out!"

I think that is why so many graseful and mannered men in Russian showbiz are neatly married to women and have kids.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Not difficult for gay men to father children when they are in their teens and early 20s. Things go up very easily at those ages :yes:

 

[seniorita]

 

[merrybari]

Then about everyone violates those rules! Neckline: Smirnov anyone? Maybe that's why both of his costumes had normal necklines at Worlds... But other guys also have / had low cut costumes, I think I at least can remember Shabalin once showing some cleavage.

Ryan Bradley has also shown cleavage!

Beads, sequins? Nearly all of the male skaters have those on their costumes. Even Evan!

Evan ditched his as soon as possible. :agree:

 

[janetfan]

Jenny's comments were interesting. I am not sure how much I agree with her but she did make me think about it - and that is always a good thing.
Skating has been shown here in USA on "Lifetime" and recently "Oxygen". Both are cable stations that cater to women's interests and issues.
But - are we supposed to forget that for years skating was shown on the very "macho" ESPN?
Did ESPN drop skating because of "gender issues" or did it have more to do with unreasonable financial demands?
I wish ESPN would show more soccer/football in USA but they have a right to put on programming that makes money for them.
BTW, many Americans consider "soccer" a sissy sport so I don't think it is strange that figure skating or ballet could also be viewed that way.
I happen to love skating, soccer/footbal, NFL football, and I also play the flute
I am a member of my cities art museum and admit that I like "Dancing With The Stars." Maybe Jenny would consider me a "feminine man" - or maybe Jenny is "culturally challenged." :yes:

 

[Medusa]

BTW, many Americans consider "soccer" a sissy sport so I don't think it is strange that figure skating or ballet could also be viewed that way.
I happen to love skating, soccer/footbal, NFL football, and I also play the flute
I am a member of my cities art museum and admit that I like "Dancing With The Stars." Maybe Jenny would consider me a "feminine man" - or maybe Jenny is "culturally challenged."

You should totally get yourself a check-up. I keep telling my dad the same thing: loving music, art, dance, saying that he prefers silky lingerie over cotton lingerie (on women that is, not on himself - as far as I know), watching figure skating with your daughter and even sometimes wearing pink - all that sounds like a serious pathological case of non-manliness.

And that people in NA consider soccer a cissy sport - hello, which country feels the need to turn their players into stuffed animals just because they want to play a round of Rugby?

 

[seniorita]

lol medusa..
i used to watch football with my dad, skating with my mum and gymnastics with my sis. Then they somehow mixed it in the years between and my mum now watches football,my dad likes skating and my sis watches nothing now.
my whole family needs checkup?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

And that people in NA consider soccer a cissy sport - hello, which country feels the need to turn their players into stuffed animals just because they want to play a round of Rugby?

Point to medusa.

For me, I think it's the difference between obvious/complicated forms of athleticism and subtle/"simpler" forms. It's the reason why Elvis Stoijko uses the big jumps in his comments - the quadruple jump is an obvious display of athleticism. I don't know anyone who could watch that and assume it's easy. However, for the footwork sequences, which (to me) require a high level of athleticism (to maintain speed during the shifts in movement and direction, if nothing else) seem "simpler" to an audience.

I have no problem with a campaign that plays up the sport's difficulty - indeed, that's why figure skating is a sport and not an art, but trying to remove the connotations that figure skating (in general) has will take a sea change in thought that's simply beyond the sport.

 

[janetfan]

You should totally get yourself a check-up. I keep telling my dad the same thing: loving music, art, dance, saying that he prefers silky lingerie over cotton lingerie (on women that is, not on himself - as far as I know), watching figure skating with your daughter and even sometimes wearing pink - all that sounds like a serious pathological case of non-manliness.

And that people in NA consider soccer a cissy sport - hello, which country feels the need to turn their players into stuffed animals just because they want to play a round of Rugby?

Have you ever seen Palermo's football club? They wear a pink and black uniform And Buffon from Juventus frequently wears a pink shirt
Maybe the Govenor of California would think they are "girlymen"

I don't get the "rugby" reference - which country do you mean?
I like this quote "Football is a game for gentlemen played by ruffians. Rugby is a game for ruffians played by gentlemen."

BTW, since the day I finished music school I rarely have played any classical flute. I play jazz and particularly like Latin and Brasilian music. Does this help or am I still under a cloud of suspicion? Maybe I should ask Jenny

 

[seniorita]

Does this help or am I still under a cloud of suspicion? Maybe I should ask Jenny

well, if you start spitting watermelon seeds in public.. i think you ll be safer.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Have you ever seen Palermo's football club? They wear a pink and black uniform And Buffon from Juventus frequently wears a pink shirt
Maybe the Govenor of California would think they are "girlymen"

I don't get the "rugby" reference - which country do you mean?
I like this quote "Football is a game for gentlemen played by ruffians. Rugby is a game for ruffians played by gentlemen."

BTW, since the day I finished music school I rarely have played any classical flute. I play jazz and particularly like Latin and Brasilian music. Does this help or am I still under a cloud of suspicion? Maybe I should ask Jenny

The reference is to American Football (rugby with lots of padding).

 

[janetfan]

The reference is to American Football (rugby with lots of padding).

Ha- ha. I get it now. It sounds like a few remarks I read from Spain after we beat them 2-0 last week ending their impressive winning streak
"Americans were playing too rough"

 

[seniorita]

turn their players into stuffed animals

i laugh with me cause when i first read it and until ImaginaryPogue explained i thought medusa meant it literally and i couldnt figure out how

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

It's sad that North Americans are ultra-sensitive on this issue.

Not all of us are.

About men's costumes, I found this in the ISU rule book.

Clothing for men cannot be theatrical in nature, men must wear full-length trousers; no tights are permitted, and the clothing must not be sleeveless, must have a neckline which does not expose the chest and be without excessive decoration, such as beads, sequins, and the like.

I agree with Medusa -- almost every male skater violates this stupid/sexist rule. Thank goodness for that.

Evan ditched his as soon as possible. :agree:

Evan ditched his uber-sparkly LP costume, but he kept his SP costume which had a big, red, sparkly cross on the front.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0gvVbvs6GX9Hb?q=Evan+Lysacek

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0dE39TtetR5in?q=Evan+Lysacek

Personally, I liked the sparkly red cross. IMO, the costume would not have been as visually appealing without it.

 

[Tonichelle]

hated Evan's SP costume (and original LP costume from this year) not because they were considered "girly" they just were downright ugly!

 

[janetfan]

hated Evan's SP costume (and original LP costume from this year) not because they were considered "girly" they just were downright ugly!

I agree and thought they looked strange on him. I think that LP tuxedo made his head look too big :yes: or maybe that was a strategy to de-emphasize his flapping arms .
And who says Frank Carroll is not a brilliant coach

 

[seniorita]

and the cross was too distracting and scary

 

[Mathman]

I think there is a reason why "soccer" is sometimes thought of as a girls’ sport in the U.S.

Historically, for whatever reason, soccer was not played in the U.S. at all. No special reason, it just turned out that way. Lacrosse and cricket were not popular either.

Then in 1972 the U.S. Congress passed the famous Title IX bill. This said that every school that receives federal funds (99% of all schools) must provide equal opportunities for girls as for boys to participate in sports. Since many schools had practically no girls’ sports programs at all, they had to scramble. They figured that soccer was a sport where all you need to do is toss a ball out in the middle of a field and tell the kids, go kick it – voila! we have an instant sport that girls can play, now give us that federal money.

That’s why U.S. women now play at the championship level – the men, not so much. As far as I know the 1999 women’s world cup finals was the only soccer game ever shown on prime time network television in the U.S. Mia Hamm was the most popular female athlete in the country (beating out Michelle Kwan for top honors that year.)