Speedy is the current head of the ISU (the governing entity for all skating sports, including figure skating and speed skating), Ottavia Cinquanta. I believe he's called Speedy because he's a former speed skater. I think the general opinion is that he has no understanding of figure skating and has made decisions that aren't beneficial to figure skating.
Grand Prix Final: Mens LP
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Speedy is the current head of the ISU (the governing entity for all skating sports, including figure skating and speed skating), Ottavia Cinquanta. I believe he's called Speedy because he's a former speed skater. I think the general opinion is that he has no understanding of figure skating and has made decisions that aren't beneficial to figure skating.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
I enjoy it but recognize it for what it is.
Maybe you young'uns enjoy what Speedy has done to skating but I am not his fan and refuse to follow him to the "dark side."
Pretty soon we're gonna start calling you grandma and get you rose coloured contacts to replace those spectacles!
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- May 15, 2009
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
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Fair enough - but call me "grandpa" ok.
Sussing gender/sex on the internet is more difficult than sarcasm, I swear! My apologies (blame the janet in your name).
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Not a problem
I was gonna change my name a week after joing GS but don't know how
Sometimes I do feel like old Bilbo fighting off the evil hoardes of Speedy's disciples.
After watching the GPF - the Men's and Ladies LP's on TV where I can see better than a Live stream I would say:
Akiko was my favorite and I would have given her 1st place in the LP.
I also think she was undermarked again in her SP.
I would have placed Jeremy 1st in the LP and Evan 2nd. I thought Oda was disappointing and he is not doing as much in between the jumps as Evan. His jumps are very good but his line is ...well he has no line. The men as small as Oda and Dai, even Johnny lack something for me.
Johnny skated good but he is no better and maybe not as good as he was 4 years ago. Nothing unique about him at all anymore and every single aspect of Jeremy's skating looks superior to Johnny's from jumps, spins, posture, transitions, musicality, extensions, choreo, execution.......
Most disappointing was Joannie.
Most overrated is Alena - little more than a junior skater with jumps which were missing today.
Miki has an ugly and distracting costume. Also below average posture, postions and extensions. Her choreo, like Oda's is a snooze after seeing it twice.
Yuna was disappointing and did not skate with passion and actually looked cautious to me.
Dai made more mistakes than any guy I saw this season. Terrible performance.
Mercifully, NBC did not show Tomas who might have made more mistakes than Dai
After watching it was not as great as the comments I read here and I thought Scott did a decent job as analyst. He said more than once the Ladies programs are too demanding and difficult for them to pull off. Scott would be 100% right about that imo.
He also seemed to like Akiko - but couldn't seem to control his Yuna raving today. I am a Yuna fan and don't mind it but I saw little to rave about Yuna's performance. It was far from her best.
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Fair enough - but call me "grandpa" ok.
Really. I had you pegged as a girl, which could mean two things, either I'm rubbish at "guess my gender?" based on the usernames or you write like a girl?
It's the username.
Even when he's not up to par, I love watching Daisuke. You can tell just the way he moves from element to element that he's something special. I hope he's able to regain his form by Olympics, because although Oda's wonderful, Takahashi is just more complete and artistic to me.
Another thing that strikes me as I watch the men is that though I don't love Evan's style, I respect his skating. I admire his hard work and his never-say-die perseverance. I bet Frank Carroll is pleased to have someone who's so responsive to coaching. While it's true that some of Evan's main rivals weren't here this week, he did well enough to make me hope that he could (dare I say it) medal at the Olympics.
Another thing that strikes me as I watch the men is that though I don't love Evan's style, I respect his skating. I admire his hard work and his never-say-die perseverance. I bet Frank Carroll is pleased to have someone who's so responsive to coaching. While it's true that some of Evan's main rivals weren't here this week, he did well enough to make me hope that he could (dare I say it) medal at the Olympics.
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- Oct 20, 2006
Rarely I have, but this time, I agree with you.
I love Jeremy's skating! It was wonderful except the fall on 4t. But he was brave to do it, not like Evan. What have put Evan above Jeremy in LP, and gave him the SB LP score with that 3axel-poped LP? I am puzzled. I know it was the judges who gave Evan the edge. However, it couldn't help but makes skating fans annoying Evan even more. He was so undeserving the marks he's got.
Jeremy still looks tall in this costume. I think his broad shoulders and long legs make him look tall. He is just so classic in looks and in skating.
(Forget about the clown expressions at the K&C.
That totally changes the mood of my every time I see it.
)Johnny wasn't the Johnny I liked on the ice any more. His program was too slow and simple to me. I agree that he touches his face too many times that makes me feel like I want to puke.
. Don't like his LP.Don't have time to comment other skaters for now.
I've read the slurs and slams on Evan's skills and scores and have tried to remain silent. I can do so no longer. To even hint that he's not doing the quad because he's afraid to put it in is more than I can take without a response.
Bravery has nothing to do with Evan and the quad. As Frank explained, Evan's foot injury last season was caused by overuse. So as not to have a re-occurance in the Olympic season, they are training the jump but placing greater emphasis on building other aspects of his skating - training smarter not harder.
This plan is paying dividends in improvements in his skating. By addressing and strengthening the rest, he has been very successful. Perhaps the changes are too subtle for an untrained eye, or for the eyes of those who don't choose to acknowldege that he HAS indeed gotten better and stronger. However, the judges have recognized the difference and are rewarding it accordingly.
As for inflated scores, IF that has been the case, it has been true, imo, for ALL the skaters not just those who some choose to single out, Evan seeming to be the primary "target." A totally undeserving one at that. As others have pointed out, it is indeed the judges who award the scores. Seems outrageous to blame the skater - whoever it may be.
Furthermore, Oda did not have a clean skate - he also popped an axel. Jeremy did not have a clean skate - he fell on the quad. Johnny was basically clean, but as others have pointed out, has lessor difficulty in some areas. We all know what unfortunate turn of events for Dai and Tomas. Evan did not have a clean skate either, as he readily admits.
It's useless to say "if" any of the aforementioned had skated clean, things would've been different. Of course that's true - if you assume that Evan would've still had the error. However, the same can be said of Evan. "IF" he hadn't popped the axel, his scores could've reached or surpassed the 170 mark.
"IF" doesn't figure in. What IS/WAS is what it was! All made mistakes. Evan has improved and strengthened his skills, preparing strong foundations in his programs so that when the time comes to add additional "tricks" the programs will be strong to support them. Smart planning to my way of thinking.
Frank is a master coach - he has a willing, determined and attentive student. No one trains better. (Before someone jumps on me thinking I'm saying others don't train well, let me say for the record that I know, and respect, as Evan does, that his competitors train diligently too.)
That said, together, Evan and Frank are making good things are happen. Give credit where credit is due. Some have, and for that I applaud and thank you. Objectivity here is very limited. Some don't even try.
Regardless of who comes out on top - at any event not just the Olympics, there will be some who will say ______ (insert name) wuzrobbed if their favorite doesn't win! OR _________ (insert name) was "gifted" by the judges if their least favorite does! Each may have different names in the blanks, but the complaints will be the same.
The men's field internationally is very strong. Each one has come out on top of the others at some point since the last Olympics. On any given day, anything can happen and anyONE of them could win.
As for me, it's no secret I'm a HUGE Evan fan, but I hope ALL competitors bring their A game to Vancouver and give the judges no "gray" area that leads to accusations of behind the door politicking. The athletes have spent years for this chance. Fans should respect ALL who have done so and at least speak with respect and greater consideration in their dissent.
Bravery has nothing to do with Evan and the quad. As Frank explained, Evan's foot injury last season was caused by overuse. So as not to have a re-occurance in the Olympic season, they are training the jump but placing greater emphasis on building other aspects of his skating - training smarter not harder.
This plan is paying dividends in improvements in his skating. By addressing and strengthening the rest, he has been very successful. Perhaps the changes are too subtle for an untrained eye, or for the eyes of those who don't choose to acknowldege that he HAS indeed gotten better and stronger. However, the judges have recognized the difference and are rewarding it accordingly.
As for inflated scores, IF that has been the case, it has been true, imo, for ALL the skaters not just those who some choose to single out, Evan seeming to be the primary "target." A totally undeserving one at that. As others have pointed out, it is indeed the judges who award the scores. Seems outrageous to blame the skater - whoever it may be.
Furthermore, Oda did not have a clean skate - he also popped an axel. Jeremy did not have a clean skate - he fell on the quad. Johnny was basically clean, but as others have pointed out, has lessor difficulty in some areas. We all know what unfortunate turn of events for Dai and Tomas. Evan did not have a clean skate either, as he readily admits.
It's useless to say "if" any of the aforementioned had skated clean, things would've been different. Of course that's true - if you assume that Evan would've still had the error. However, the same can be said of Evan. "IF" he hadn't popped the axel, his scores could've reached or surpassed the 170 mark.
"IF" doesn't figure in. What IS/WAS is what it was! All made mistakes. Evan has improved and strengthened his skills, preparing strong foundations in his programs so that when the time comes to add additional "tricks" the programs will be strong to support them. Smart planning to my way of thinking.
Frank is a master coach - he has a willing, determined and attentive student. No one trains better. (Before someone jumps on me thinking I'm saying others don't train well, let me say for the record that I know, and respect, as Evan does, that his competitors train diligently too.)
That said, together, Evan and Frank are making good things are happen. Give credit where credit is due. Some have, and for that I applaud and thank you. Objectivity here is very limited. Some don't even try.
Regardless of who comes out on top - at any event not just the Olympics, there will be some who will say ______ (insert name) wuzrobbed if their favorite doesn't win! OR _________ (insert name) was "gifted" by the judges if their least favorite does! Each may have different names in the blanks, but the complaints will be the same.
The men's field internationally is very strong. Each one has come out on top of the others at some point since the last Olympics. On any given day, anything can happen and anyONE of them could win.
As for me, it's no secret I'm a HUGE Evan fan, but I hope ALL competitors bring their A game to Vancouver and give the judges no "gray" area that leads to accusations of behind the door politicking. The athletes have spent years for this chance. Fans should respect ALL who have done so and at least speak with respect and greater consideration in their dissent.
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- Oct 20, 2006
Merrybari, I respect your opinions on Evan, but this is the most outragous remarks I've ever seen. Please tell me, is Evan the most skilled, the most artistic, the most athletic, simply the best skater in the current men's figure skating?! Is Evan's current program the most difficult, the best choreographed program ever?! Is he deserving the marks he's got?
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- May 15, 2009
Under CoP Evan is earning high scores. I know so many of you love CoP and now that Evan is milking it for every possible point you have the nerve to blame Evan for being successful.
I think Jenny and many others need to look closer at this and see why less active skaters like Johnny and Oda did not rack up as many points as Evan did.
Look at their spins, their steps, choreo and their interpretation. Yes, I just said interpretation. :yes:
It seems to me that Cop does not care so much about the quality of interpretation as much as the quantity of interpretation. It looks like busy skating with alot of arm motions and lots of bending over, leg kicks and many things that some of you don't like are being rewarded very highly by CoP.
I think many of you have a major gripe with the system and the judges but won't admit it.
I was upset after NHK when Joubert's superficial choreo, transitions and interpretation was scored as being equal to Jeremy. I still think it is utterly laughable to consider Joubert the artistic equal of Jeremy.
I think it is wrong to score Evan higher than Jeremy in those areas too.
And I also think it is wrong to give Plushy big marks for transitions that consist of nothing more than armflapping and crossovers.
But it feels wrong to pick on Plushy, Joubert or Evan when they are just skaters trying their hardest.
The gripe should be with Speedy, ISU and the judges.
(OT but I think the tech callers are ruining the Ladies with too many tight calls.)
I thought Merribari's post was fine.
I think all of the fans knocking Evan for his marks are dead wrong. I realize I was wrong for knocking Joubert's SP score at NHK..
The truth is that under CoP artistic achievement has been distorted beyond recognition to 6.0 fans.
Artistry used to stand for something more definable and now it has been reduced to "who can do the most of it." That is a faulty concept just as CoP scoring itself is based on an anti-artistic concept.
True skating artistry is never about "the most movement" it is only about the most beautiful and distinguishable movement. Great skating should not be about who can do the most elements but who can do the most beautiful and elegant elements.
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The whole post! 
Your comment makes me appreciate Evan and his skating more. :agree: I just watched NBC's broadcasting, I agree with the judges, he earned the title fair and square.
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- Jun 3, 2009
Given that there was a multi-page thread dedicated to Brian Joubert and Yu Na Kim's possible overscoring, general outrage at the scoring of Joannie Rochette and Patrick Chan at Skate Canada, I hardly think it's true that Evan is singled out as the primary target this season.
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- Oct 20, 2006
Here is the result from GPF FS:
1 Evan LYSACEK 159.60 75.60 84.00 8.40 8.10 8.50 8.55 8.45 0.00 #5
2 Jeremy ABBOTT 158.73 82.13 77.60 7.75 7.60 7.75 7.65 8.05 1.00 #2
Please help me out. It seems to me that Evan is milking it for every possible point. The maximum he milked was TES 75.60. But Jeremy got TES 82.13. How did Evan milk it for PCS 84.00?
I am wondering how exactly you figured it out this time? Oh, right, Evan is an American.
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- Mar 25, 2008
I knew eventually it would come to this...
I don't think anyone suggested that Evan Lysacek is a bad person or a bad skater. What people have written repeatedly is that he is not the greatest skater ever, or even the greatest now; that his programs aren't unusually good, even for IJS - and that therefore the judges have no business marking him and his programs as they do. This requires pointing out what areas in his skating are not so good as to justify those marks. If it were my favorite in this position, it would be tough for me to take, too. But my favorites, good as they may be, have never been marked like this. You rarely see PCS like that outside of ice dance.
Being critical of a skater or his scoring does not necessarily make you a "hater", and it's not out of line. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything" is not in the forum guidelines. Lysacek has been singled out in this thread and the SA thread because his scoring in both events seemed out of touch with his performances.
As ImaginaryPogue correctly pointed out, if you think he is the only skater to have been singled out, do look at past threads, from this season and last, on Brian Joubert, Carolina Kostner, DomShabs, Yu-Na Kim, Patrick Chan, Virtue and Moir, Joannie Rochette, Evgeny Plushenko, even the Finnish ladies - it's a long list (I added to your examples, ImaginaryPogue
). I'm not saying you were involved in it; I don't remember who was. But much of it was far nastier than anything in this thread - remember "Program Canadian Scores"? Or people writing that they enjoyed seeing Brian Joubert fall on his 2A at Worlds? How about the suggestions that Speedy was responsible for Caro Kostner's marks?(I will admit that personally, Frank Carroll really rubs me the wrong way with his endless conspiracy theories and wuzrobbing claims, and his disrespectful comments about certain skaters. I try not to hold it against his skaters. It's not easy.)
Sometimes as fans we have to look at our favorites' scores and admit that much as we enjoy their skating, much as we think they're great, that was excessive. This was excessive. Period. It has nothing to do with Evan's work ethic or with his commitment to skating. It's not a reflection on his character.
Hopefully in Vancouver, we'll see a strong competition and one that will be judged on merit.
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- Nov 7, 2007
I agree. Evan didn't necessarily milk the system at this event; it looks more like he was the beneficiary of reputation scoring (I realize that this is NOT Evan's fault, and he is NOT the only one to benefit from such). But I sincerely doubt that he would have received such generous PCS if he wasn't a) the reigning world champion and b) the #1 American man.
Before we all decry CoP....it's not like everything was rosy under 6.0 either. For example--I never quite understood how Tim Goebel got the Presentation scores he did. For a more specific example, poor Sasha Abt at 2002 Euros was totally robbed in the Presentation scores by a clearly flawed and underperforming Yagudin despite the fact that Sasha was absolutely amazing in the LP and (rightfully) won the Technical score--but no way were the judges going to give the gold to the #3 Russian with no major titles to the multi-World Champion #1 Russian.
To me, this tells me that the PCS are used like the Presentation scores under 6.0--those handy scores that can prop up a favourite, as placeholders. But the question is, can this ever be changed under any system? Can we ever eliminate that element of favouritism (or reputation scoring), especially in a clearly subjective sport like figure skating?
CoP has its flaws, certainly, but I don't think it has destroyed artistry or increased reputation scoring any more than 6.0 did. In 6.0, after all--if you could jump and you were an established name, that would pretty much ensure you presentation marks in the high 5s no matter what you put on the ice.
:thumbsup: I mean, I love Yagudin but he should NOT have won the 2002 Euros. And his "One Banana" EX is STILL absolute crap, no matter how wonderful his other programs were
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- Mar 25, 2008
Absolutely true. Sasha Abt was so amazing that year.
That never happened. It's only a figment of Mishin's imagination.And his "One Banana" EX is STILL absolute crap, no matter how wonderful his other programs were
ETA: your post in the ten things thread is excellent!
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- Jun 27, 2003
no, because it's subjective. it's why we don't all fall over the same skaters and worship the ice they skate on... I find Evan to be an amazing performer and skater... I liked his Carmen program, and for the most part his Tosca... others can't stand a single thing he's ever skated saying he has no presentation quality whatsoever. To each their own.
until we get rid of teh second mark, you're going to see reputation scoring playing a factor...
actually as longas there are human judges and such you're going to have outside influences totally unrelated to the rules of judging as a factor.
Scores are always inflated in an Olympic year anyway, in both scoring systems... so I wouldn't worry TOO much about it here.
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I think Evan's PCS were inflated and I love Evan. But you could argue the same for S/Z, D/W, V/M, Kim in some events etc. IMO the judges are just going crazy when marking the winner. I think that's wrong, doesn't diminish the skating of these people, though.
And these things are very subjective. For example, I appreciate what Kozuka and Abbott are doing, but they seem so restrained and focused inward to me that their skating seems "small" and inconsequential IMO. So I would argue that Lysacek, Joubert, Plushy etc. deserve at least equal marks to those people because they perform so much better than them that it should even out what they lose in Transition marks etc. I know that I don't make myself very popular with these statements here, sorry.
And these things are very subjective. For example, I appreciate what Kozuka and Abbott are doing, but they seem so restrained and focused inward to me that their skating seems "small" and inconsequential IMO. So I would argue that Lysacek, Joubert, Plushy etc. deserve at least equal marks to those people because they perform so much better than them that it should even out what they lose in Transition marks etc. I know that I don't make myself very popular with these statements here, sorry.
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- Jun 3, 2008
Oh merrybari dont you know it is always the winner of the event that gets the most critisism? the silver medalist could have messed big time with a big splattfest, but the gold is screened under the zoom tool...I think none was picking on Evan though as Evan, I m the first to say dont adress the skaters, but the judges. Dont worry
I liked Evans Carmen a lot by the way, but that was 4 years ago. I liked his style back then a lot better, he was more light and original and less .. I dont know the word..
janetfan I dont think Plushenko should get high marks for transitions either but if you take a look he got 6.95 for it and transitions is one branch of pcs. Of course maybe he deserved 1.95. While you say Plush is only arm flapping and crossovers, mediocre everything but the jumps, I could have said the same for Evan (but I wouldnt anyway cause i dont believe it) and you would post about Evan bashers drinking lemon. I m lost sometimes here for double standars.
I think none post bashed Evan as a person neither a skater, same things have been said hunderndth times for many skaters, especially the winners of the events.
the silver medalist could have messed big time with a big splattfest, but the gold is screened under the zoom tool...I think none was picking on Evan though as Evan, I m the first to say dont adress the skaters, but the judges. Dont worryI liked Evans Carmen a lot by the way, but that was 4 years ago. I liked his style back then a lot better, he was more light and original and less .. I dont know the word..
janetfan I dont think Plushenko should get high marks for transitions either but if you take a look he got 6.95 for it and transitions is one branch of pcs. Of course maybe he deserved 1.95. While you say Plush is only arm flapping and crossovers, mediocre everything but the jumps, I could have said the same for Evan (but I wouldnt anyway cause i dont believe it) and you would post about Evan bashers drinking lemon. I m lost sometimes here for double standars.
I think none post bashed Evan as a person neither a skater, same things have been said hunderndth times for many skaters, especially the winners of the events.
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