Yu-Na's 3-3 combo at the Olympics

[Kwanford Wife]

I agree with you. Reading this poster's past posts, this person is really interested in Mao and Oda. So I had to wonder what the intention might have been behind this post. To fuel up the controversy, so everyone will start to doubt about her 3-3 combination in future? Or am I being too paranoid?

This isn't a fan site... every skater, every thread, and every call is up for debate. Being able to read criticism of your fav is the price for admission. I am the ultimate uber fan and I've come to actually appreciate my non Kwan worshipers...even if I can't understand them

I would suggest waiting until the actual competition happens before getting all bent out of shape about what call Yuna gets on her 3x3.

 

[adoreyuna]

Chris and Nicky, you mean.. Yay, I'd take any opportunity to applaud them..
Btw, somebody better do a 3+3 at the olympics and skate clean (most likely candidate Yuna) cos I don't want a repeat '06.

Yes, you're right, and I totally agree with you. :agree:

Your tag is so cute! I like it.

 

[silverlake22]

This isn't a fan site... every skater, every thread, and every call is up for debate. Being able to read criticism of your fav is the price for admission. I am the ultimate uber fan and I've come to actually appreciate my non Kwan worshipers...even if I can't understand them

I would suggest waiting until the actual competition happens before getting all bent out of shape about what call Yuna gets on her 3x3.

Haha, MK is amazing, but MK also thinks Yuna is amazing. She said that her 3-3 is the best one out there. I think that's saying something :agree:

 

[adoreyuna]

Why do we need this thread? I can't see any thread like Mao's 3A or Miki's 3-3 at OG.
This kind of thread will hurt Yuna and put more pressure to her.
Her 3-3 combo has been good and just down graded once at GPF.
If Yuna jumps and lands well, she should be given the full credit and +GOE at the Olympics.
Same on other skaters.

I don't know who we are.:scratch:

I think this thread will not hurt Yuna at all.

Somebody messed up her 3-3, even if she did well, so Yuna fans made this thread for the purpose of wishing that kind of terrible thing will not happen again.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Haha, MK is amazing, but MK also thinks Yuna is amazing. She said that her 3-3 is the best one out there. I think that's saying something :agree:

Absolutely!! I don't think its a random thing that Yuna is the only lure to the ice for Michelle. Yuna is a brilliant skater and I am a big fan. My point is that being mean and nasty doesn't do a darn thing towards one's favorite winning anything. It doesn't diminish Yuna's talent that she received a DG. It doesn't even point to a backroom deal. It just means that the judges recognize her superior talent and she will be judged by a different standard. She needs to be spot on. This was also true of Michelle. I've heard it blamed on nationalistic pride and also on racism. But truthfully, reputation marks cut both ways and while it sucks - it is what it is. Therefore you might as well save yourself the angst and wait until after the competition to get all bent out of shape...

 

[Figure88]

Absolutely!! I don't think its a random thing that Yuna is the only lure to the ice for Michelle. Yuna is a brilliant skater and I am a big fan. My point is that being mean and nasty doesn't do a darn thing towards one's favorite winning anything. It doesn't diminish Yuna's talent that she received a DG. It doesn't even point to a backroom deal. It just means that the judges recognize her superior talent and she will be judged by a different standard. She needs to be spot on. This was also true of Michelle. I've heard it blamed on nationalistic pride and also on racism. But truthfully, reputation marks cut both ways and while it sucks - it is what it is. Therefore you might as well save yourself the angst and wait until after the competition to get all bent out of shape...

While there is no dot connecting the questionable DG to a backroom deal, it doesn't disprove it either. I think it's wrong to completely ignore what's on, and act as though nothing is happening. If there are backroom deals going on, the facts needs to be aired out so as to stop them dead on their tracks. And there's nothing wrong with threads like this and just "speculating", since this is just an internet forum after all. BTW, why do bring up reputation marks? I get the feeling from Cinqunata's recent antics that he's quietly trying to sabotage her chances to do well at the Olympics. So how could you bring up Yuna benefitting "reputation" marks at such a time as this?

It just means that the judges recognize her superior talent and she will be judged by a different standard.

This is point doesn't even make any sense. It's a competition. Everyone has to be judged by one standard, otherwise there's bias.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

While there is no dot connecting the questionable DG to a backroom deal, it doesn't disprove it either. I think it's wrong to completely ignore what's on, and act as though nothing is happening. If there are backroom deals going on, the facts needs to be aired out so as to stop them dead on its tracks. And there's wrong with threads like this and just "speculating", since it's just an internet forum after all. BTW, why do bring up reputation marks? I get the feeling from Cinqunata's recent antics that he's quietly trying to sabotage her chances to do well at the Olympics. So how could you bring up Yuna benefitting "reputation" marks at such a time as this?

Its very easy for me to bring up reputation marks... because I can. I am not obligated to keep my posts to your liking. Unless you think that I too am part of the grand ISU conspiracy to keep Yuna off the Olympic podium and do this by posting on a fan board...

Further, since we don't know of any backroom deals around DG calls, maybe, just maybe, we should not assume that said deals are being made without any proof, perhaps? Hmmm? Granted, I am not one for consipracy theories in figure skating...it seems kinda silly to me. But that's just me. You go right ahead and give yourself a migraine stressing out about stuff you have no control over.

But seriously, if you look at skating from a historical perspective, the greats are ALWAYS subject to a more critical eye because so much is expected of them. They simply don't get the benefit of the doubt that other skaters get. And this is bigger than Yuna... prime example: Miki is known as a powerful jumper but she get dinged each and everytime where other skaters glide right on by because judges are judging her... That's the problem with a subjective sport. And its why I brought up reputation.

Its also why a phenom can win a major event whereas a veteran will get marked for each infraction...

This is point doesn't even make any sense. It's a competition. Everyone has to be judged by one standard, otherwise there's bias.

And we should all get strawberry ice cream for dessert too - but skating, like life, isn't fair. PCS scores have a reputation bias associated. And all the skaters should be judged by one standard, but they are not. Never have been. And sometimes its the greats that get judged the harshest because judges expect more. That's simply how the system works.

Now, I am off to wage additional psychological warfare on Oda fans... we. must. keep. the. skaters. down.

 

[Figure88]

Its very easy for me to bring up reputation marks... because I can. I am not obligated to keep my posts to your liking. Unless you think that I too am part of the grand ISU conspiracy to keep Yuna off the Olympic podium and do this by posting on a fan board...

Further, since we don't know of any backroom deals around DG calls, maybe, just maybe, we should not assume that said deals are being made without any proof, perhaps? Hmmm? Granted, I am not one for consipracy theories in figure skating...it seems kinda silly to me. But that's just me. You go right ahead and give yourself a migraine stressing out about stuff you have no control over.

But seriously, if you look at skating from a historical perspective, the greats are ALWAYS subject to a more critical eye because so much is expected of them. They simply don't get the benefit of the doubt that other skaters get. And this is bigger than Yuna... prime example: Miki is known as a powerful jumper but she get dinged each and everytime where other skaters glide right on by because judges are judging her... That's the problem with a subjective sport. And its why I brought up reputation.

Its also why a phenom can win a major event whereas a veteran will get marked for each infraction...

Now, I am off to wage additional psychological warfare on Oda fans... we. must. keep. the. skaters. down.

Well if you don't like what's discussed in this thread, then just ignore it. But I find it extremely rude to say the least to make demands that others stop discussing a topic, just because it's not to your liking.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

While there is no dot connecting the questionable DG to a backroom deal, it doesn't disprove it either. I think it's wrong to completely ignore what's on, and act as though nothing is happening. If there are backroom deals going on, the facts needs to be aired out so as to stop them dead on their tracks. And there's nothing wrong with threads like this and just "speculating", since this is just an internet forum after all. BTW, why do bring up reputation marks? I get the feeling from Cinqunata's recent antics that he's quietly trying to sabotage her chances to do well at the Olympics. So how could you bring up Yuna benefitting "reputation" marks at such a time as this?



This is point doesn't even make any sense. It's a competition. Everyone has to be judged by one standard, otherwise there's bias.

Its very easy for me to bring up reputation marks... because I can. I am not obligated to keep my posts to your liking. Unless you think that I too am part of the grand ISU conspiracy to keep Yuna off the Olympic podium and do this by posting on a fan board...

Further, since we don't know of any backroom deals around DG calls, maybe, just maybe, we should not assume that said deals are being made without any proof, perhaps? Hmmm? Granted, I am not one for consipracy theories in figure skating...it seems kinda silly to me. But that's just me. You go right ahead and give yourself a migraine stressing out about stuff you have no control over.

But seriously, if you look at skating from a historical perspective, the greats are ALWAYS subject to a more critical eye because so much is expected of them. They simply don't get the benefit of the doubt that other skaters get. And this is bigger than Yuna... prime example: Miki is known as a powerful jumper but she get dinged each and everytime where other skaters glide right on by because judges are judging her... That's the problem with a subjective sport. And its why I brought up reputation.

Its also why a phenom can win a major event whereas a veteran will get marked for each infraction...



And we should all get strawberry ice cream for dessert too - but skating, like life, isn't fair. PCS scores have a reputation bias associated. And all the skaters should be judged by one standard, but they are not. Never have been. And sometimes its the greats that get judged the harshest because judges expect more. That's simply how the system works.

Now, I am off to wage additional psychological warfare on Oda fans... we. must. keep. the. skaters. down.

Well if you don't like what's discussed in this thread, then just ignore it. But I find it extremely rude to say to make demands that others stop discussing a topic, just because it's not to your liking.

What in the world are you talking about?!? I never told anyone to NOT talk about anything... I just clicked on the thread and was amused by the drama... whatever. I shall leave you to your paranoia if that turns you on...

 

[Figure88]

What in the world are you talking about?!? I never told anyone to NOT talk about anything... I just clicked on the thread and was amused by the drama... whatever. I shall leave you to your paranoia if that turns you on...

Please do.

 

[BlackAxel]

I agree with you. Reading this poster's past posts, this person is really interested in Mao and Oda. So I had to wonder what the intention might have been behind this post. To fuel up the controversy, so everyone will start to doubt about her 3-3 combination in future? Or am I being too paranoid?

Ok, first off why does it matter that I am interested in Mao and Oda??? I am also interested in Lambiel, Nagasu, Denis Ten, Kozuka, Rippon and the list goes on and on and on..... I am by no means a Mao-bot and I very much respect Yu-Na as a skater and person. What I find striking is the past history of how this particular technical specialist has downgraded a couple of Yu-Na's 3-3 combos and how it being downgraded again in the Olympics can limit the points Yu-Na receives and hurt her chances for gold.....If no one likes this thread, then dont read it and ignore it. No one is forcing you to respond.

 

[millie]

Well if you don't like what's discussed in this thread, then just ignore it. But I find it extremely rude to say the least to make demands that others stop discussing a topic, just because it's not to your liking.[/Q



Now boys and girls, play nice!!! Some of these posts and remarks would lead you to believe that this is an Olympic year.

 

[evangeline]

While there is no dot connecting the questionable DG to a backroom deal, it doesn't disprove it either.

Sounds like a logical fallacy to me.


Additionally, I'm not Cinquanta's biggest fan, but it really sounds like a really, really far stretch to say that he's trying to "quietly sabotage" Yu-Na. Trying to force Yu-Na to participate at the 4CCs just seems like yet another one of his ham-fisted methods to squeeze more money out of figure skating, like his threat to move the 2009 Worlds from LA if a TV deal wasn't reached with the US networks.

Also, if Cinquanta really wanted to sabotage Yu-Na's chances at the Olympics, there are much more underhanded ways to do so that would attract far less public ire, like mess with the sektrit computer or get Rudolf Zagainov to work his voodoo hypnosis magic on Yu-Na.

 

[BlackAxel]

But seriously, if you look at skating from a historical perspective, the greats are ALWAYS subject to a more critical eye because so much is expected of them. They simply don't get the benefit of the doubt that other skaters get. And this is bigger than Yuna... prime example: Miki is known as a powerful jumper but she get dinged each and everytime where other skaters glide right on by because judges are judging her... That's the problem with a subjective sport. And its why I brought up reputation.
Its also why a phenom can win a major event whereas a veteran will get marked for each infraction...
And we should all get strawberry ice cream for dessert too - but skating, like life, isn't fair. PCS scores have a reputation bias associated. And all the skaters should be judged by one standard, but they are not. Never have been. And sometimes its the greats that get judged the harshest because judges expect more. That's simply how the system works.

TOTALLY AGREE about the whole reputation basis for judging skaters on their PCS. But lets save that for another thread, lol.

I also agree with Figure88 about the whole Cinquanta ordeal....I really do think that he did a lot more stuff behind closed doors to get Yu-Na to skate at 4CC than what he admitted :scratch:.....

 

[Figure88]

Sounds like a logical fallacy to me.


Additionally, I'm not Cinquanta's biggest fan, but it really sounds like a really, really far stretch to say that he's trying to "quietly sabotage" Yu-Na. Trying to force Yu-Na to participate at the 4CCs just seems like yet another one of his ham-fisted methods to squeeze more money out of figure skating, like his threat to move the 2009 Worlds from LA if a TV deal wasn't reached with the US networks.

Actually, I was quoting from the article linked here:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...010703886_another_figure_skating_judging.html

Criticize it all you want.

Also, if Cinquanta really wanted to sabotage Yu-Na's chances at the Olympics, there are much more underhanded ways to do so that would attract far less public ire, like mess with the sektrit computer or get

I think you're giving Cinquanta too much credit for intelligence. In any case, he probably thought the Korean federation would never make such big deal about his underhanded dealings and the whole matter would never even go to press.

 

[miki88]

Maybe the whole thing is not as dark and shady as it seems. Perhaps Cinquanta just wants Yuna to be there because he wants more money and it is held in Korea; if Yuna were there, a lot of her fans would go and thus more ticket sales. As for the judge, well perhaps she doesn't think Yuna's jumps are as good as everyone else think they are. Not saying that the judge is right but it can happen. I mean have you guys ever been in a situation where u were certain u did really well but then the scores you get don't actually reflect your performance? I have been in that situation before. Sports as in life is unfair. Sometimes, someone just don't see things eye to eye with you. I mean we shouldn't fixate on the conspiracy theory; there can be alternate explanations for Cinquanta and the judge's actions.

 

[i love to skate]

Actually, I was quoting from the article linked here:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...010703886_another_figure_skating_judging.html

Criticize it all you want.

The article pretty much says nothing and when anyone calls a Hersh article "fascinating" it should be a clue to shake your head. The author seems to forget an important point. There are THREE people on the technical panel - the calls are not determined by only one person.

 

[evangeline]

Actually, I was quoting from the article linked here:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...010703886_another_figure_skating_judging.html

Criticize it all you want.

With pleasure.


The article is basically a regurgitation of Hersh's original post, which (as noted by others) is mostly backed up with sources such as hearsay from skating message boards and a Youtube video that is not exactly the paragon of objectivity. Given that figure skating message boards and Youtube fan videos were also the source of last year's ridiculous conspiracy theory that Yu-Na was intentionally targetted by Japanese skaters (as well as skaters wearing light blue ), I hope you would understand why I am skeptical about this year's conspiracy theory. Even the Seattle Times article admits that all this talk is mostly innuendo at this point, after all.

 

[silverlake22]

TOTALLY AGREE about the whole reputation basis for judging skaters on their PCS. But lets save that for another thread, lol.

I also agree with Figure88 about the whole Cinquanta ordeal....I really do think that he did a lot more stuff behind closed doors to get Yu-Na to skate at 4CC than what he admitted :scratch:.....

Agree on both parts. Yuna isn't going to 4CC though so it really doesn't matter. Also, I'm still not convinced looks don't play into PCS. I'm a huge Evan fan but he got an 84 for his PCS in the LP at the GPF which was much higher than everyone else got, I'm still not convinced it wasn't partially because he's super hot

 

[Basics]

The article pretty much says nothing and when anyone calls a Hersh article "fascinating" it should be a clue to shake your head. The author seems to forget an important point. There are THREE people on the technical panel - the calls are not determined by only one person.

Yes, but two of the three are being fixed! watch 08' COC and 09' GPF
where Yuna got the unfair calls. The two people on the tech panel are same, the other being Russian.