Who will be the sacrificial lamb for the ladies

[MikiAndoFan#1]

Miki's 3z+3lo WAS downgraded, and should have been, because the loop was clearly UR. It was a huge mistake for miki to have even attempted it, as she has NEVER gotten credit for it every time she's tried it. If she had landed a clean 3z+2lo, she would have received at least 7.3 points, maybe even more with +GOE. Because of the downgrade, she received only 6.3 points. Miki also lost .6 on her flip.

There were plenty of times Miki's 3Lz+3Lo was ratified. It just hasn't happened this season yet. She only attempted it two times in competition, though.

 

[Spun Silver]

I'm so pleased that despite fighting through a painful tragedy, a score three points higher than what you felt she earned was enough to remove all your good will for Joannie, who outside of skating well, had nothing to do with the scores. Seriously. BRAVO.

Flattfan, this statement is so profoundly misguided that it actually causes pain. And here's the thing - I probably would've pegged her around 69-70. But "nasty host country?" "unacceptable?" Describe Scott as a "nasty bastard?" Pathetic.

:thumbsup:
Joannie skated beautifully - by far the best I've seen her do that program - and for God's sake the girl deserves nothing if not goodwill!!! It was an amazing performance. And Canada "nasty"? What?? :disagree:

 

[FlattFan]

Joannie has scored around 70 before internationally. I think its not right to call the host nation nasty. She deserved that placement and iam so proud of her.

Yeah, and the last time she scored 70, people were scratching their heads. She deserved 3rd after the SP, but no way she should be in the 71+ range. Mao, Yuna, Miki, if all of them did 3lutz-2toe, 3flip, 2A SP, would never even dream of breaking 70.

I'm so pleased that despite fighting through a painful tragedy, a score three points higher than what you felt she earned was enough to remove all your good will for Joannie, who outside of skating well, had nothing to do with the scores. Seriously. BRAVO.

Flattfan, this statement is so profoundly misguided that it actually causes pain. And here's the thing - I probably would've pegged her around 69-70. But "nasty host country?" "unacceptable?" Describe Scott as a "nasty bastard?" Pathetic.

I feel bad for her, but I feel bad for skaters placed below Joannie in a huge deficit, too. Mirai has her own family problem. Rachael could be having all kind of problem leading to this. What makes Joannie deserving more than the other girls? It's insensitive, but her score is just outrageous. But this is coming from the same person who thinks Chan's score was acceptable and "wasn't his personal best"

 

[silverlake22]

There has been some score inflation for the Canadian skaters (certainly Chan and Dube/Davison were generously scored for their subpar performances), but Rochette's score wasn't overinflated compared to past performances (she got 70 at SC), and to the other skaters. ALL the top ladies' scores are generous. I love Rachael, but she hasn't gotten a score over 60 internationally this season, and neither has Leonova or Suzuki. Makarova's top score in the JGP was 55.

Joannie skated well in the SP and her scores were reasonable when seen in context with the other ladies. What remains to be seen is the FS scoring. If she skates her best and makes no mistakes, she could get a score over 130, and that could be fair in context with Asada and Kim's score. OTOH, she could potentially have mistakes and still score that high, out of sympathy for her loss and her courage in continuing to compete. That could be considered unfair.

I didn't think Joannie's score was outrageous, I just think based on what she got, some of the other ladies' scores should have been higher.

In defense of Rachael, she didn't break 60 in her SP this season because she only did a 3-2 at worlds and CoC and fell on a rotated 3-3 at SA - has she done a clean 3-3 at those competitions her score would have been over 60.

Leonova got 61+ for her SP at the GPF where she stepped out of her combination, so I thought her score was fair, especially because she was really expressive in that program.

Makarova was on the JGP circuit and the PCS at junior competitions are always lower so getting a 55 at a junior competition is comparable to getting a 59 at a senior competition.

Akiko hasn't broken 60 for her SP this season because her PCS marks are always so low. They were higher last night (deservedly so) and that bumped her into the 60s.

Mirai got 62 at CoC and I thought she was better last night than in China, I would have had her more at 65-66 but I think her PCS suffered a little bit from skating so early.

Gedevanishvilli again the score could have been a bit higher but she skated early too. Not my favorite skater but her jumps are huge.

Overall I didn't have too many issues with the scoring. I do think that, had Mao's 3a been UR, the scores for Yuna and Joannie would have been lower though. When Mao was clean, they gave her a deserved score of 73, so then when Yuna was also clean, they had no choice but to give her 78, and then when Joannie was clean, they wanted to separate her from the likes of Rachael, Mirai, and all the Euro ladies in the low-mid 60s so they gave her 71. If Miki had done a clean 3-3 she likely would have been around 68. I think they didn't expect the top three ladies to all go clean and that's why the scores were so high, because they were all clean.

 

[figuristka]

Of course Yuna would have broken that had it been a 3 lutz-2toe, alot of the skater's got high marks. I think there is a much higher quality in the skating of Joannie and the skater's below. Flatt, does not have the smoothness or grace of alot of the other top ladies.

 

[skatemom1122]

No akikko had a hand down on her first jump of the combo, so could do not do the 2 toe. she tacked it on to the loop later.

I thought Miki was given a big gift with her scores. Her 3/3 should have been downgraded and certainly her flip. There seems to have been an agreement not to downgrade anyone as to avoid a judging scandal.

Ando was downgraded on the 3-3.

 

[i love to skate]

Yeah, and the last time she scored 70, people were scratching their heads. She deserved 3rd after the SP, but no way she should be in the 71+ range. Mao, Yuna, Miki, if all of them did 3lutz-2toe, 3flip, 2A SP, would never even dream of breaking 70.

The scores have been getting higher and higher all season long. Was Yuna's program 2 points better than her previous world record? The scores are just getting larger.

I feel bad for her, but I feel bad for skaters placed below Joannie in a huge deficit, too. Mirai has her own family problem. Rachael could be having all kind of problem leading to this. What makes Joannie deserving more than the other girls? It's insensitive, but her score is just outrageous. But this is coming from the same person who thinks Chan's score was acceptable and "wasn't his personal best"

What exactly was Rachael's problem heading into this? Mirai and Rachael are no where near the level that Joannie is at. Miki had jumps downgraded. Joannie is more deserving because she skated an amazing program - solid landings, speed, presentation, command of the ice, high levels, and positive goes. She was ranked second in the World last year and has been a medal threat for the past two seasons. She has scored 70 points internationally before and many have said this is the best she has ever skated a short program. So a little over 1 point better than her previous personal best is completely reasonable.

You are right you are insensitive. To say that Canada is a "nasty host nation" and that all your good will for Joannie is now gone because of her score makes absolutely no sense. I am glad the rest of the skating fans and the entire country of Canada is behind her for the courage, bravery, and competitive spirit she is displaying.

 

[FlattFan]

Of course Yuna would have broken that had it been a 3 lutz-2toe, alot of the skater's got high marks. I think there is a much higher quality in the skating of Joannie and the skater's below. Flatt, does not have the smoothness or grace of alot of the other top ladies.

And Joannie was smooth sailing? Did anyone not notice her bobble right before her combo?
Has anyone got 70+ in the SP with Joannie's layout? Irina SP in 2006 was at 66 and her spins, speed, jumps are superior. She was a top tier skater at the time. None of the top tier girls would get that kind of score. This is blatant hold up.

 

[FlattFan]

What exactly was Rachael's problem heading into this? Mirai and Rachael are no where near the level that Joannie is at. Miki had jumps downgraded. Joannie is more deserving because she skated an amazing program - solid landings, speed, presentation, command of the ice, high levels, and positive goes. She was ranked second in the World last year and has been a medal threat for the past two seasons. She has scored 70 points internationally before and many have said this is the best she has ever skated a short program. So a little over 1 point better than her previous personal best is completely reasonable.

You are right you are insensitive. To say that Canada is a "nasty host nation" and that all your good will for Joannie is now gone because of her score makes absolutely no sense. I am glad the rest of the skating fans and the entire country of Canada is behind her for the courage, bravery, and competitive spirit she is displaying.

Who knows what Rachael's problems are, that's the point. But who to say one has worse than the other until you walk in their shoes? Joannie deserved her 3rd place above Rachael, true. But 71+? Even at Skate Canada, her SP score was attributed to home crowd. So a point better than an inflated score still make it an inflated score, and does not make it reasonable.

 

[janetfan]

The scores have been getting higher and higher all season long. Was Yuna's program 2 points better than her previous world record? The scores are just getting larger.



What exactly was Rachael's problem heading into this? Mirai and Rachael are no where near the level that Joannie is at. Miki had jumps downgraded. Joannie is more deserving because she skated an amazing program - solid landings, speed, presentation, command of the ice, high levels, and positive goes. She was ranked second in the World last year and has been a medal threat for the past two seasons. She has scored 70 points internationally before and many have said this is the best she has ever skated a short program. So a little over 1 point better than her previous personal best is completely reasonable.

You are right you are insensitive. To say that Canada is a "nasty host nation" and that all your good will for Joannie is now gone because of her score makes absolutely no sense. I am glad the rest of the skating fans and the entire country of Canada is behind her for the courage, bravery, and competitive spirit she is displaying.

:agree:

 

[figuristka]

The scores have been getting higher and higher all season long. Was Yuna's program 2 points better than her previous world record? The scores are just getting larger.



What exactly was Rachael's problem heading into this? Mirai and Rachael are no where near the level that Joannie is at. Miki had jumps downgraded. Joannie is more deserving because she skated an amazing program - solid landings, speed, presentation, command of the ice, high levels, and positive goes. She was ranked second in the World last year and has been a medal threat for the past two seasons. She has scored 70 points internationally before and many have said this is the best she has ever skated a short program. So a little over 1 point better than her previous personal best is completely reasonable.

You are right you are insensitive. To say that Canada is a "nasty host nation" and that all your good will for Joannie is now gone because of her score makes absolutely no sense. I am glad the rest of the skating fans and the entire country of Canada is behind her for the courage, bravery, and competitive spirit she is displaying.

Could not agree more :thumbsup:

 

[enlight78]

And Joannie was smooth sailing? Did anyone not notice her bobble right before her combo?
Has anyone got 70+ in the SP with Joannie's layout? Irina SP in 2006 was at 66 and her spins, speed, jumps are superior. She was a top tier skater at the time. None of the top tier girls would get that kind of score. This is blatant hold up.

One thing I notice is all the top skaters pc's increase two points or more since the gp season; Also in 2006 skaters weren't obsessed with getting level 4's in all there elements; also they weren't focussing on goe's; judges were also stingy with goe's until 2008. what gets a +2 now would have gotten a +.5 in 2006; But I agree; Akiko and Miki got 7's while maor; joannie ; and yu-na got 8's ; I have to agree they are a full level above miki and akiko in presentation and a level and a half above Mirai and Rachel.

 

[silverlake22]

And Joannie was smooth sailing? Did anyone not notice her bobble right before her combo?
Has anyone got 70+ in the SP with Joannie's layout? Irina SP in 2006 was at 66 and her spins, speed, jumps are superior. She was a top tier skater at the time. None of the top tier girls would get that kind of score. This is blatant hold up.

The scores have gotten higher over the years, and Irina at 06 Olympics had a very wobbly spiral which probably cost her a couple points. Joannie got a 67 at worlds last year for her SP with the same layout, and her expression has improved since, so a 71 isn't that unreasonable. Yuna's score is 7+ points higher and the difference in value between a 3lz-2t and 3lz-3t is 2.7 so that still means Yuna's skating is almost 5 points better than Joannie's when you adjust for the technical difficulty so I think Joannie's score is fair. After she skated I thought she would get a 68 or 69 but I think going through what she has these past few days have made her skating stronger and more heartfelt and so when I saw she had gotten 71 I wasn't surprised. Given the scores of Mao and Yuna, I'd say Joannie's score is fair. I'm so proud of her too!

 

[figuristka]

enlight78, and silverlake22 thanks for your comments, iam so glad other's agree.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Kozuka had a fall and a 2foot landing on his quad

His quad wasn't two-footed. His Loop was a bit two-footed, though. He did way more than Patrick technically (and deserved the same scores for Skating Skills, at the very least).

 

[i love to skate]

His quad wasn't two-footed. His Loop was a bit two-footed, though. He did way more than Patrick technically (and deserved the same scores for Skating Skills, at the very least).

Kozuka has very good skating skills but forsure not as good as Patrick's. I watched both of them practice last Monday (and in the same group).

 

[silverlake22]

His quad wasn't two-footed. His Loop was a bit two-footed, though. He did way more than Patrick technically (and deserved the same scores for Skating Skills, at the very least).

I think a lot of this is hard to tell from TV. I think Mirai is almost in the same league as Mao and Yuna in terms of elegance and basic skating but the scores seem to suggest otherwise. I think you really need to see skaters live to have an idea about who is better than who. I have seen both Yuna and Miki live and I must say, Yuna is SO FAST and super elegant so I understand why her scores are huge. I was not a big fan of Miki before and thought she was overscored a lot but seeing her live, she is very fast and slender and her skating is very powerful, I was impressed and surprised and now understand why she gets big scores as well.

 

[BigJohn]

Miki did a crazy triple lutz triple loop combo. The loop was close, just like Kim's triple toe. Her flip was also close, just like Kim's and Scott kept on going on and on about her underrotation. What a nasty bastard. Full disclosure: he's friend with Brian Orser.
Looks like the way things are going, Mary has a little Miki now.

Joannie got 71+ for that SP? WTH. Didn't anyone notice the bobble right before her combo. I got teared up at the end of her program, and would put her in the 67-68 range. Then bam, her score came up and all my good will for this girl is just gone. Canada is such a nasty host country. The score for Joannie is unacceptable.

Reaching a stratospheric level of douchebaggery and stupidity.

Yeah, and the last time she scored 70, people were scratching their heads. She deserved 3rd after the SP, but no way she should be in the 71+ range. Mao, Yuna, Miki, if all of them did 3lutz-2toe, 3flip, 2A SP, would never even dream of breaking 70.


I feel bad for her, but I feel bad for skaters placed below Joannie in a huge deficit, too. Mirai has her own family problem. Rachael could be having all kind of problem leading to this. What makes Joannie deserving more than the other girls? It's insensitive, but her score is just outrageous. But this is coming from the same person who thinks Chan's score was acceptable and "wasn't his personal best"

On that night, that would be that performance she did. Few people in the whole world share your twisted and completely wrong appreciation of that skate.

And Joannie was smooth sailing? Did anyone not notice her bobble right before her combo?
Has anyone got 70+ in the SP with Joannie's layout? Irina SP in 2006 was at 66 and her spins, speed, jumps are superior. She was a top tier skater at the time. None of the top tier girls would get that kind of score. This is blatant hold up.

Please do not bring Slutskaya into this discussion, one of the most overrated female skater of the last 2 decades. And comparing COP of 2006 with 2010 is pretty useless.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Scores too high; scores too low; make no sense when they are thrown into that curiosity called Personal Best. How can PB be accurate when different judges in the same competition are giving scores, and worse when venues are different all the time? It's bad math. I suppose it makes the skater feel better if his PB has risen. And in this competition I think all the skaters PBs are on an upward trend. Should make many competitors happy on the way home and give them that Wait till next year feeling.

 

[Marrymeyunakim]

Who knows what Rachael's problems are, that's the point. But who to say one has worse than the other until you walk in their shoes? Joannie deserved her 3rd place above Rachael, true. But 71+? Even at Skate Canada, her SP score was attributed to home crowd. So a point better than an inflated score still make it an inflated score, and does not make it reasonable.

All this, coming from a Flatt fan. LOL