Virtue and Moir on Par with Torvill and Dean

[katha]

About the technical progress that IMO V/M and D/W have brought to the sport: In general they look to me "lighter on their feet" while doing difficult elements, effortless. Our German commentators also said that both V/M and D/W were faster than the other teams. A class apart in the twizzles (particularly D/W), difficult entries and endings in their elements (spins, lifts). By far the most difficult lifts with many changes of position, balance etc. for both partners. In general I just think that all the other teams looked slightly laboured/not as in control of their technique in comparison. But of course you're right, that is just my opinion. The judges seemed to think so as well, though.

 

[christinaskater]

I love both of these teams

I think Virtue and Moir are Virtue and Moir

and Torvill and Dean are Torvill and Dean

Both are icons, legends and both delivered 2 of the greatest performances in figure skating history!

 

[skatesindreams]

I think Torvill and Dean are legends and that of this current crop of ice dancers two teams have the potential to be legends- Virtue and Moir and Davis and White.

I agree. Let's give it a few years to see whether they live up to their potential. V and M were certainly wonderful the other night.
T and D became "Legends" because of their ability to innovate and transform the discipline, combined with their extraordinary quality of performance.

Only time will determine if these teams can equal that.

 

[KKonas]

I agree. Let's give it a few years to see whether they live up to their potential. V and M were certainly wonderful the other night.
T and D became "Legends" because of their ability to innovate and transform the discipline, combined with their extraordinary quality of performance.

Only time will determine if these teams can equal that.

I agree it is way to early to be makinig grandoise statements about either team. Torvill & Dean are legends because of the body of work - all FD different in expression,, pushing the envelope. Let's see what the future brings.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I agree. Let's give it a few years to see whether they live up to their potential. V and M were certainly wonderful the other night.
T and D became "Legends" because of their ability to innovate and transform the discipline, combined with their extraordinary quality of performance.

Only time will determine if these teams can equal that.

How much more time do V/M need? What would be a good reason for them to remain active to develop their potential which they have already done? They are Olympic Gold Medalists.

Also, I can't put them above T/D. I just feel they should join the exclusive club. The Duchesnays belong there too. All the other dance teams I've seen are good standard medalists of any color.

 

[dcr]

I don't think you can compare T/D and V/M. They are dancers from different era's. Dance has evolved so much since T/D competed. In their day the were in a league of their own but it's 2010 and dancers have become more athletic and powerful with wonderful edge quality.

 

[kyla2]

No, I don't think they skated the equivalent of Torville and Dean's Bolero. They were great but not that great. That was an easy one to answer.

 

[BigJohn]

No, I don't think they skated the equivalent of Torville and Dean's Bolero.

True: lighter, more intricate and difficult than Bolero. Equally well permormed programs, but Mahler is a lot more challenging a program than Bolero.

 

[kyla2]

Big John, just call me a Philistine, but Mahler is deadly boring and flat to skate to. Not enough highs and lows. Besides which, I don't think they skate as well as Torville and Dean. Let's see them skate to Bolero.

 

[katha]

True: lighter, more intricate and difficult than Bolero. Equally well permormed programs, but Mahler is a lot more challenging a program than Bolero.

Well, of course what V/M are doing is more technically demanding. They are skating 26 years later! But that is hardly T/D's fault and I just wish people wouldn't bring up different levels of difficulty when comparing skaters from different eras. Sonia Henie, Dick Button and the Protopopovs didn't have the jumps today's skaters have either, doesn't make them less legendary or great!

 

[Dibs]

I tend to agree with many of the posters on this topic; it's just not fair to try to compare skaters from different eras. Torvill and Dean are before my time but in watching videos of Bolero I had chills. Virtue and Moir were phenomenal but I didn't have the same chills I had for the Bolero performance. I think this is due in large part to V/M's choice of music, but there's no denying they were amazing.

I think V/M and I'm going to include D/W in this category have the potential to be legendary but both teams are still so young and the body of work just isn't there to compare them to past legends. I feel that with maturity and time both teams are going to churn out even more amazing programs. I think D/W & V/M will become legends but both teams need to continue to push boundaries before they can be compared to T/D, G/P, and other amazing teams.

 

[BigJohn]

Big John, just call me a Philistine, but Mahler is deadly boring and flat to skate to. Not enough highs and lows. Besides which, I don't think they skate as well as Torville and Dean. Let's see them skate to Bolero.

I hated that piece of music all year, but when, where and how it was permormed made it the stuff of legend.

V&M skating to Bolero? I'm sure there would be some actual skating sooner than 25 seconds into the program and that Scott would not stay on his knees for 40 seconds to start the program. T&D did 50 seconds of posing and then slowly started to move on the ice... That is almost a full minute of "not much happening", 1/4 of the program.

As far as skating better than T&D... Everything they do is more intricate. T&D had great highlights to the music and nice tricks. V&M are pure dancers on ice. If I look at Mack and Mabel, Barnum and Bolero vs Valse Triste, Umbrella and Mahler, I prefer the second set of programs. Less repetitive.

 

[BigJohn]

Well, of course what V/M are doing is more technically demanding. They are skating 26 years later! But that is hardly T/D's fault and I just wish people wouldn't bring up different levels of difficulty when comparing skaters from different eras. Sonia Henie, Dick Button and the Protopopovs didn't have the jumps today's skaters have either, doesn't make them less legendary or great!

True, T&D revolutionazed ice dance under the 6.0 system, V&M took the COP to a new level. That Vancouver gold is the most memorable since 84 that is for sure.

 

[colleen o'neill]

A resounding YES to Joe's original proposition... will this performance by V/M go down as an iconic performance on a par with T/D's Bolero. I don't think it can be doubted ,but that's not to say that you can really compare them one against the other. But both will live in memory as exquisite gems. Is the ruby better than the emerald ? Who can say ? They're both gorgeous.

They've shown little glimpses of them on Canadian TV at Novice and Junior levels, and every year at nationals, I looked forward to those brief clips to seeing how they were progressing. The anticipation when they moved up to the senior ranks was unbearable , knowing the wait-your-turn culture that had prevailed for-bloody-ever, yet feeling that these kids were so good that surely they could not be denied.

I think the surface has only been scratched.Their CD's and OD's are proof of their versatility, and don't forget they were greatly hampered last year by Tessa's operation.( May it be a continued success ) I expect we'll see something a bit different next year , since I don't think Zueva would ever fall into a same-old, same-old pattern as some lesser choreographers are prone to do.

 

[dorispulaski]

Resounding no, they are not on a level with T&D yet, other than they both are worthy Olympic gold medallists and both skated a very memorable Olympic FD. IMO

For one thing, T&D did the tango romantica a lot better, had to do 3 repetitions of it where the patterns lay over each other as closely as school figures, and still were only 4th in 1980. By the time they did Bolero, they were completely amazing in the CD's. They also had to have 2 other compulsory dances at the same level. Tessa and Scott rightfully finished second to DomShabs who had only 3 good legs between them in the Tango Romantica.

By 1984, T&D had created 3 absolutely legendary OSP's, best of their kind-Summertime blues was reworked into the Midnight Blues compulsory dance. Their 1984 paso doble OSP was so wonderful that I still get hits on it by ballroom dancers who post, Yes, Yes, that is just how a paso doble is supposed to be. In between that, they skated a rock n roll OSP that should be referred to be teams who want to construct a dance of the 50's for next year's OD.

Their has never been any team better at interpreting the character of a dance better than T&D, and Tessa & Scott simply have not yet reached that level yet-if you want to compare them to T&D, it would the 1981 T&D, new minted world champions, skating to the Fame soundtrack for the FD, and Cherry Pink & Apple Blossom White for the chacha OSP. They have a great deal of wonderful potential, but haven't reached their full development yet. V&M's previous OD's have been no where near that level, and this year's Flamenco isn't a patch on Anissina & Peizerat's. IMO

If V&M retired from eligible skating today, I'd compare them to K&P--wonderful, balletic technicians, Olympic gold medallists, beautiful instruments in the hands of their choreographer, and skaters who could never win over the hearts of the Duchesnay and Rahkamo & Kokko fans, who found K&P rather boring. Indeed, K&P even lost a world championships to the Duchesnays, and the iconic, memorable FDs of that era are Missing I, Missing II, Reflections, Savage Rites, and only perhaps in fourth place, K&P's Air, tied with the Batty Bride. K&P vanished without even a team that they coached hitting the big time. In OSP's, the only K&P program that remains memorable is their Golden Waltz (CD for worlds), whereas the Duchesnay's had a great Argentine Tango, and Rahkamo & Kokko's Finnstep (to Borsalino) was the best of the 3. IMO

If you want to make a case for Shpilband & Zoueva as legendary coaches & choreographers, up there with Betty Calloway, I'm willing to go there with you.

 

[BigJohn]

People have been downplaying V&M amazing talent ever since they appeared on the radar as juniors. Since, they have done better than expected and most sooner than T&D. I think achievements-wise, V&M are ahead of what T&D were able to achieve: top 10, podium, OGM. The whole "so good they got a CD after them" is not going to happen while they are skating and it won't with changes coming either. Lets compare apples with apples.

 

[salsa]

I seem to remember reading that T/D also created their own programs. If this is correct, this together with their varied and larger body of work gives them the edge over V/M who by the way did an outstanding job at these Olympics.