- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
I don't think there should be a cap on either what to spend or what to charge - skating is not a necessity.
If you really want to make it about Yu-Na, you should atleast get your facts straight. "Team Yu-Na" was assembled in the summer of 2006, after Yu-Na won Junior Worlds and BEFORE she started competing on the Senior circuit... go look it up in your back issues of IFS Magazine. So, no, she wasn't the GPF champion at that point... she wasn't even a Senior level skater.
Your the one who used Yu-na as an example. Why not bring up Mao's private rink? Yu-na didn't go to train with Orser fulltime unti after the Grand Prix Final. He says this in multiple interviews.
Yes Yu-na has a top coaching staff, yes after her Junior World title the Korean Federation wanted to get her some top coaches. Why the heck wouldn't they? But once again, your ignoring how difficult it was for Yu-na to even become a Junior World champion. The deck was absolutely stacked against her. Essentially her federation started helping her after she became successful. And you do realized that Yu-na literally funds the Junior program in Korea?
Yes it sucks how expensive this sport is. But people forget that choregraphers, coaches have to make a living too. That's life.
There always is an example. The only reason I picked Yu-Na is because her coaches, endorsements, and achievements are more notable (and most importantly citable), and her programs show how flawlessly CoP-friendly choreography is infused in her programs. This doesn't make what Yu-Na has done any less noteworthy and amazing. Just because she has a team to train her full time and a great choreographer isn't what makes her go down and lay it all out on the ice and truly own the performance. She could have gone into the Olympics with that same staff and fallen and failed to medal had she been less of a competitor and athlete. Yes, I know the hardships Yu-Na faced growing up, and yes I know all about her charity work (I was the one who posted about it). Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop taking this as an attack on Yu-Na: it's NOT. I adore Yu-Na, I'm thrilled with all that she has accomplished and think she is a great inspiration to others, charitable and gracious. None of this is an attack on Yu-Na; it's simply questioning a system that is beginning to benefit the few that are privy to its nuances and wondering what it would be like if other skaters had similar experienecs with great choreographers and coaches. THAT IS ALL.
And, alas, you are still wrong about when Brian Orser, David Wilson, and Yu-Na teamed up (the summer of 2006, therefore right after the '05-'06 season before Yu-Na made her Senior lnternational debut. Here is the article so you can see for yourself: http://www.ifsmagazine.com/archive/2007/DECEMBER/INDEX.PHP ...
or if you don't want to read the whole thing: "Kim’s homeland coach Se-Yol Kim decided a change of training venue might revive the competitive spark in her young protégé and sent Kim to Canada to work with choreographer David Wilson during the summer of 2006.
After three months at the Toronto Cricket Skating and Curling Club (TCSCC), Kim knew she had found the perfect training environment and decided to make it her full-time training base. The young prodigy approached skating director Brian Orser and asked him to take on the duties as her full-time coach. "
AND
"When Kim made her debut in the senior ranks at 2006 Skate Canada, Orser also made his coaching debut at the boards."
As I think of financial issues in FS, it actually starts at the very beginning. FS is a very expensive sport and only who can afford that start and continue. But I don't know how to change it.
Financial investments are expected to yield better competitive outcomes. That holds true in many areas, whether it be sport, science, political campaign etc etc. It's not just money. But with that money, you can invest in quality human resources etc. That matters most. You got to have brilliant people in your team.
To get financial endorsements, you have to have your work known and be supported. People don't invest in what they think unimportant.
I read an interview with Machiko Yamada, who is a former coach of Midori, Yuari, Yoshie Onda, Mao, and current Kanako Murakami, saying that her mission is not to train elite skaters, but to promote the sport in ordinary ppl (A recent issue of a sport magazine called Number). Machiko acknowledges Midori for contributing to the popularity of FS in ordinary ppl. Midori is from a single-parent family with financial disadvantages. Then when her family situation came to be known, the image of FS changed from an extremely expensive sport only for upper-class families to the one that is also for a girl next door.
In that article, a parent of her student says that Machiko is considerate about charges so that ordinary workers can afford lessons.
I am sure that Machiko could charge ridiculously expensive lessons because of her brilliant career as a coach (I knew how much a former olympian could charge even without ever growing big students like these....), but it sounds like she doesn't (at least to those who cannot afford?) according to the article.
☆Genie;481735 said:Yes, this sport costs a lot. This is bothering me, but how come skaters here in America don't get the endorsements or commercial deals say Yuna and Mao. They're big names in their home country, yet some of the skaters here in North America aren't as known....
About Mao- She seems to be making 500,000 USD per commercial, yet JSF collects a lot of it. JSF pays for her staff and other things, I believe. However the private rink was specially made for her and also they had installed cameras in the rink for her to see herself skate and make adjustments.
Yuna's case is different. She came from a relatively disadvantaged family, yet she has found her way to become an icon in South Korea.
Both of these ladies are examples of what could happen if you're huge. I don't think skaters here in NA can make money compared to Mao and YuNa. Can somebody tell me why people don't choose skaters for commercials in NA? :X
A friend of mine in Korea told me a few weeks ago that she started hating Yuna because she got to see her everytime she turned on her TV.
Yuna is said to be a person who is naturally shy and does not enjoy getting a lot of attention.
I think she will prefer having enough financial support from the government than showing up in too many commercials.
Apprently she gets around 70K USD a year from Korean skating union (which is very much increased from the past) and she pays back 30% of her prize money to the union.
So, basically, without the commercials, she cannot afford training in Canada and the so-called "dream team".
And also about 'Orser', as others mentioned, he was not a proven coach and Yuna is his very first full-time student - he should've been much more affordable than Frank Caroll or Tarasova. It's a bit off topic, but Yuna is even good at talent hunting! She found Orser and pursueded him to become her coach even though he was relactant. But now, he is one of the most sought-after coaches whose service fee should be very expensive! LOL
I'm sure if she was American or Japanese, her life would've been much easier and could've had more "net" income.
☆Genie;481735 said:Yes, this sport costs a lot. This is bothering me, but how come skaters here in America don't get the endorsements or commercial deals say Yuna and Mao. They're big names in their home country, yet some of the skaters here in North America aren't as known....
About Mao- She seems to be making 500,000 USD per commercial, yet JSF collects a lot of it. JSF pays for her staff and other things, I believe. However the private rink was specially made for her and also they had installed cameras in the rink for her to see herself skate and make adjustments.
Yuna's case is different. She came from a relatively disadvantaged family, yet she has found her way to become an icon in South Korea.
Both of these ladies are examples of what could happen if you're huge. I don't think skaters here in NA can make money compared to Mao and YuNa. Can somebody tell me why people don't choose skaters for commercials in NA? :X
Exactly. Not only is YuNa's current status an unintelligent example to use to illustrate a so-called "general point" about unfair resource advantages, beth continues to be misinformed.I'm just defending Yu-na because I felt it was really unfair to use someone who had to learn the jumps on videotape, as an example of having an unfair competitive advantage...And normally too with more federation support/money comes more federation control as well.
Clearly you don't, and doing lip-service to them isn't the same thing as appreciating them. Your words do not reflect anyone who knows and respects YuNa's history.Yes, I know the hardships Yu-Na faced growing up, and yes I know all about her charity work (I was the one who posted about it).
Really? You expect anyone that is a YuNa fan to make a point like that, or to believe they would? Also, if it is that easy to make an Olympic Gold Medalist, I have to wonder why more countries and national figure skating programs/associations around the world that have more money than South Korea's never did. I don't care what you claim your intentions are, or aren't. Domnina and Shabalin said their OD wasn't an "attack" on or "insult" to the Aboriginals, but the Aboriginals said otherwise. Your words are an attack on YuNa: her hard work, her talent, and the sacrifices made by her family. She's lucky she made it. If anything, it was probably the fact that the Figure Skating environment in S. Korea is so dismal that YuNa was able to set herself apart--due to her talent and her willingness to tackle all the obstacles she faced....Add to that her choreographer (David Wilson), main coach (Brian Orser), music team, and off-ice team of physical therapists, pilates instructors, and don't forget the full-time personal security (bodyguards) etc. To be able to have SO many talented people focused on just you would be any skater's dream... that is a team that could probably train a lump of mud to get up and skate an OGM-worthy performance, but with Yu-Na the talent was already there.
Originally Posted by bethissoawesome
...Add to that her choreographer (David Wilson), main coach (Brian Orser), music team, and off-ice team of physical therapists, pilates instructors, and don't forget the full-time personal security (bodyguards) etc. To be able to have SO many talented people focused on just you would be any skater's dream... that is a team that could probably train a lump of mud to get up and skate an OGM-worthy performance, but with Yu-Na the talent was already there.
Coaches can only work with the tools they have. They can help a skater reach the best of their ability. But you can't turn just anyone into a top skater. Talent/hard work matter as well. In fact Orser said in an interview that he suspects a lot of coaches feel "she could already do the 3flip/3toe" before he got her. I.e the idea that anyone could have taken someone as skilfull as Yu-na was, polish her up and make her a champion. In fact to be honest I think a lot of people are far more convinced now about Orser's brilliance as a coach by seeing how much Gao has improved since she went to him.
When Yu-na was about 11? She won Triglav that was her first big coming out party and people were shocked because she beat the US Novice champion, and I know eventually if not already that person was coached by Frank Carroll. A coach that was far more experienced at creating champions than Yu-na's coaches at the time.
I agree that it is very difficult for skaters, but to use American skaters as the ones most hurting from the system is just soo not fair.
If you would read what I wrote, it's not that "belittling YuNa seems to have been the point"; it's that you are, by using her as the prime example of your case.I'll apologize again if it seems the point of this was to belittle Yu-Na. It's not...
OMG you're right, I never thought about that! We have YuNa, who had so much money that she was coached by highly sought-after names like Jyong-Hyun Ryu and Se-Yeol Kim before leaving the luxurious skating facilties in S. Korea and heading off to Canada and learning from Brian Orser, who she must have paid by the bucketload to persuade him to leave his shows for coaching. She also wore some hand-me-down skates that didn't fit her feet for a while, because only she could afford them--to other skaters' envy.I thought about using Mao as well, but couldn't find clear enough sources that state her net income from endorsements other than just a list of her endorsers, and her various coaching changes among showing up to a competition without a coach makes that end difficult as well, as does her programs which are not quite as fine-tuned to CoP as Yu-Na's.
If you would read what I wrote, it's not that "belittling YuNa seems to have been the point"; it's that you are, by using her as the prime example of your case.
OMG you're right, I never thought about that! We have YuNa, who had so much money that she was coached by highly sought-after names like Jyong-Hyun Ryu and Se-Yeol Kim before leaving the luxurious skating facilties in S. Korea and heading off to Canada and learning from Brian Orser, who she must have paid by the bucketload to persuade him to leave his shows for coaching. She also wore some hand-me-down skates that didn't fit her feet for a while, because only she could afford them--to other skaters' envy.
Meanwhile, Mao had to settle for second-rate discount coaches like Machiko Yamada, Rafael Arutunian, and Tatiana Tarasova. And then with Tarasova, Mao doesn't have the finances to live abroad and train, so she's forced to stay in Japan and only see Tarasova part-time, and surely it's Mao's lack of funding that has Tarasova unable to attend her competitions, not Tarasova's health.
YuNa is definitely the poster kid for overwhelming advantages right from the get-go.
☆Genie;481981 said:Since when was Rafael Arutunian second rate? And TAT is definitley NOT second rate...
☆Genie;481981 said:Since when was Rafael Arutunian second rate? And TAT is definitley NOT second rate...
Those are your only objections to my post?☆Genie;481981 said:Since when was Rafael Arutunian second rate? And TAT is definitley NOT second rate...