Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[janetfan]

janetfan
I think you must hate your mother. What an obsession with accusing Yuna's mother, seriously.
Yuna doesn't have to organise any press conference. She doesn't want to make public shows like Brian did.

So you are saying it is better for Yuna to disappear until her LA show? I think I disagree.

Of course she is free to do as she chooses. If I worked for ATS (may the good lord help me ) I would be suggesting a brief press conference, maybe without taking questions.

But my advice would be for a brief statement thanking Brian for his help over the years and a quick apology for the sloppy break saying it is time to move on and sorry that things got a little out of hand. In other words, something short with a consoling tone. And she could also thank her fans........

But that is just what I would advise. Perhaps that is bad advice but I think it would be the classy thing to do.
I also think Yuna is a very classy young lady.

 

[MrBerkeley]

I don't think Yuna felt betrayed by Brian a few months ago.
This "uncomfotable feeling" started when Ms Park decided she wanted to start up her own agency. When Brian did not jump at the chance to sign with her and did not deliver Adam and Christina the relationship changed.

After the Olympics things seemed to be fine. Then Brian was off to Korea and made and honorary citizen of Seoul.

Then Brian re-signed with his agency and suddenly things were not the same.
I think this is the best theory we have heard - "skating mom goes mad with power and fires daughter's coach for insuffiencient loyalty.

The test message had a puzzling line - "I know exactly what's going on now"

Yuna seems to admit as Brian said that before when he talked to her she did not understand what was happening. Interpret this anyway you like, but Yuna's own message confirms what Brian had said.

I did not understand before but "I know exactly what's going on now."

I never doubted that Brian was truthful but have big doubts about everything we have heard from ATS and the entire Kim camp.


Nothing else has happened that we know of that could have caused such a bitter, brutal. callous parting of the ways.

Good luck with ATS. I suspect it will only last as long as Yuna can bring in the big bucks. Other skaters, seeing what has happened to Min Jung may not be so quick to sign up.

I surely hope Adam and Christina keep far away from ATS.

I'm sure ATS will be limited to only Korea (since IMG Korea is like nonexistent).

Also, I think Yuna may have been referring to the interview rather than this theory.

I mean its plausible, but I think its also a bit ridiculous to expect 2 skaters and a coach to suddenly jump ship. While Yuna's mother comes across as overbearing and strict, she hasn't behaved stupidly until now (which I would put on inexperience and naivete.

As for Minjung, she's still probably in a better position with ATS in Korea and with Yuna than with say IMG or someone else. More exposure in Korea, more bucks. Pretty much all the Korean electronics, automobile financial behemoths are behind Yuna (I mean 10 million a year for a skater. That's never happened before). Although it might hurt her elsewhere. As long as Yuna skates, ATS will live. Frankly as long as Yuna skates, anything she's with will benefit. Its just what is.

 

[bekalc]

It wasn't too long ago that everyone was raving about what a wonderful and perfect coach Brian was for Yuna....how quickly things change.

I think Brian was an amazing coach for Yu-na. I think the difference between her and Mao was that Yu-na had a very strong team around her, and Mao didn't. I think Tarasova is a great coach, but she was in Russia, Mao in Japan, and I don't think that was the situation best suited for Mao to become the best skater she could be.

If Yu-na wants to stay in this sport she absolutely needs a good coach and a good team around her that's ESSENTIAL and she may find that a coach like Brian is very hard to replace especially since some top coaches may not be willing to take her on after that horrific break up. But the point I was making is I don't think Yu-na owes everything to Orser in the way I think Michelle owes everything to Frank.
There's a difference between a coach who takes on a top skater and make them improve and gets the best of them. And a coach who takes a young kid who is not a champion, teaches them everything and makes them into a champion. While obviously dealing with a Yu-na is a lot more pressure, and takes a lot more work because you don't want to be responsible for screwing it up. I will always find it more impressive when someone takes a young skater who is not a champion, and does most of the ground work to make them a champion.
That's why in a lot of ways I am far more impressed with the work Brian has done with Christina, than I am impressed with the work Brian has done with Yu-na... Now obviously Christina was around the same age as Yu-na when he got her, but Christina was no where near as good as Yu-na and she has improved at tremendous rates in just about every way with Brian. Once again this doesn't mean Brian hasn't done a great job with Yu-na, or that Yu-na doesn't owe him a heck of a lot because she does. Skaters who think that just because they are excellent skaters and so they can get away with not having a full time coach who pushes them to improve and get better, they end up for rude awakenings. Michelle's issue wasn't that she left Frank, but rather that she didn't replace him. It was foolish on Michelle's part, and frankly arrogant on her team's part as well. But I will never judge Michelle for wanting a change. And I dont think its fair to say that skaters owe it to coaches to stay with them forever either. Although it depends. I definetly think someone like Plushenko owes Mishin, when Mishin literally paid for his training and housing when he was kid, but most coaching stiuations in the US aren't like that.

And the thing is Yu-na DID stick with Orser through the Olympic year. Its not like she left him high and dry before the Olympics, so that she could win with someone else.

 

[b-man]

I don't think I have seen this information in the thread. Many posts said Yu Na was alone and neglected upon her return to the Cricket Club,, and indeed, on one day was in tears. Does anyone know when she returned to train? Was it before the August 2 "firing," or between Aug 2 and the Aug 23 press release? If before Aug 2nd, Brian would have had time to mend any misunderstanding. If Yu Na waited until after Aug 2nd to return, relations would have already been strained, and mending the wounds more difficult. But I believe the decision to release Brian was made by Ms. Park in March/April, with YuNa agreeing very reluctantly, as she still felt loyalty to Brian.

 

[MrBerkeley]

It wasn't too long ago that everyone was raving about what a wonderful and perfect coach Brian was for Yuna....how quickly things change.

I don't think anyone is saying Brian isn't a wonderful and perfect coach for Yuna. Its that there are a bunch of Yuna fans saying Brian is a liar and malicious and good riddance. Then there are the Orserbots saying Brian is incapable of making mistakes and that Brian is 100% responsible for all of Yuna's successes and that Yuna herself didn't contribute anything.

I don't even know why you have to go to those extremes in the first place. Brian WAS the perfect coach for Yuna. The OGM speaks louder than words. Yuna and Brian worked hard together. You cannot split the OGM and contribute it entirely to one person, Yuna OR Brian.

So why the bots are fighting about it when frankly nobody is going to be swayed any which way I honestly have no idea.

The rest of us are just speculating cause we're bored on why the split happened. Not who was responsible for the OGM or whether the firing was deserved or what not. Its how the firing happened and the ugliness of the split that disturbs us.

 

[janetfan]

I'm sure ATS will be limited to only Korea (since IMG Korea is like nonexistent).

Also, I think Yuna may have been referring to the interview rather than this theory.

I mean its plausible, but I think its also a bit ridiculous to expect 2 skaters and a coach to suddenly jump ship. While Yuna's mother comes across as overbearing and strict, she hasn't behaved stupidly until now (which I would put on inexperience and naivete.

As for Minjung, she's still probably in a better position with ATS in Korea and with Yuna than with say IMG or someone else. More exposure in Korea, more bucks. Pretty much all the Korean electronics, automobile financial behemoths are behind Yuna (I mean 10 million a year for a skater. That's never happened before). Although it might hurt her elsewhere. As long as Yuna skates, ATS will live. Frankly as long as Yuna skates, anything she's with will benefit. Its just what is.

Good points and I can agree with your views on this.
Just the "suddenly jump ship" thought I might see differently. From what I have read here Brian, Adam and Christina all recently signed or re-signed with IMG. They would not have had to jump ship but simply sign with ATS rather than IMG.

Just some thoughts on this because the Mao stuff is pure BS cooked up by ATS to help make a case against Brian. It feels very weak to me not to mention it is not nice at all for them to bring Mao into their own mess.

Min Jung has a big year coming up. She is also Korea's # 1 skater until or if Yuna returns for Worlds. The KSF hopefully will help her and I doubt if they are too pleased with ATS over the brouhaha, especially because it seemed avoidable, or at the very least could have been handled much, much better.

 

[ilfs]

I think Brian was an amazing coach for Yu-na.

I absolutely agree with this. I do feel that without Orser, it would not have been as easy(and effortless as it looked) for her to gain the OGM. In reality though, I do believe the quite genius of David Wilson and his perceptive approach to make her "a happy skater" has done wonders and his choreagraphy is almost perfectly suited for her. He, more then anyone in Yuna's team knows what makes Yuna tick, and his close relationship with her apparently helped her very much in making the transition from a shy teenager to a much more mature and beguiling presence on ice.

 

[bekalc]

Always weary when a person is perceived in such a high manner, put on such a tall pedestal. It almost makes me wish to look for faults in said person just to prove these fanboys wrong. But I don't need to do that- eventually, true colors will be shown and these people will defend her to the hilt anyway. she just CANNOT DO WRONG NO MATTER WHAT in these folks' eyes. The perfect person is a fantasy...and in the case of many people who idolize a celebrity, that fantasy is projected onto him/her...and should the fan ever meet his/her idol, reality comes crashing down...

Well I think there are Orsbots too who are arguing he could never do any wrong etc...Frankly I'm not impressed with Team Yu-na or how she's handled this one iota. I have no trouble thinking Brian was treated rather poorly. What I'm frankly angry with Brian is not that he announced the split, but rather the media spectacle he choose to make the entire thing. ATS of course did inflame him with some of the ridiculous comments they made.

The fact is I actually want to like Brian and Yu-na, and I still like both. And while I talk about this a lot, I frankly don't really want to hear their he said/she said stories about all the reasons they broke up. Because I'm never going to know what happened, and so I'd rather not choose sides. I'm still frankly mad at Brian, for telling me all of these intimate details because I feel its him making me take sides. I'm actually less mad at Yu-na in this circumstances because she's said less. Although I'm annoyed at Twit gate.

So my only really annoyance at Brian is how he's handled it. As for me saying Brian's not solely responsible for Yu-na. Its frankly more of out annoyance for awhile. Not because I don't find Brian a great coach but because I think Yu-na was an AMAZING skater before she went to Brian, simply amazing. I mean those jumps were always incredible. And I've always felt it was unfair that so many people were giving Orser all the credit when its clear there were others who put a lot of work into Yu-na. Its really not a knock on Brian.

 

[MrBerkeley]

So you are saying it is better for Yuna to disappear until her LA show? I think I disagree.

Of course she is free to do as she chooses. If I worked for ATS (may the good lord help me ) I would be suggesting a brief press conference, maybe without taking questions.

But my advice would be for a brief statement thanking Brian for his help over the years and a quick apology for the sloppy break saying it is time to move on and sorry that things got a little out of hand. In other words, something short with a consoling tone. And she could also thank her fans........

But that is just what I would advise. Perhaps that is bad advice but I think it would be the classy thing to do.
I also think Yuna is a very classy young lady.

Yes, I think Yuna can release a public statement saying maybe something along the lines of:

"I wish to thank fans for their support through this difficult time and would like to express regret at the manner in which this parting unfolded. I regret and would like to take back my words regarding the split and would like to express my utmost appreciation and respect for the man that I considered both a friend and a great coach. I have always valued my privacy and continue to feel firmly that all matters should remain between myself and involved individuals. Thank you."

(REGARDLESS of whether its true, I think it would repair her image and nothing would really change. I think its best for her to do so.)

Frankly, I doubt Brian's reputation got hurt that much except for us noticing a bit of coaching immaturity/ inexperience... and the song release thing which I still don't know why he did so (after watching that youtube video I totally understand why it is construed as on purpose because Brian specifically states that they want to keep the programs secret until release time for the big surprise... and that was probably for the duration of all 4 years so it wasn't something new. I suppose the best of us can make missteps although Brian's already backtracked by stating he has nothing but respect for the mother ).

 

[Mathman]

Um, are you implying that they acted arrogantly? We have no evidence that they are arrogant and only examples of how humble they are (whether for media consumption or real). I agree with Ilfs. Inexperience rather than arrogance. And its unfair to blame a whole fan base too lol.

I think what Hurrah is saying is that when you have millions of people chanting your name, sooner or later you start believing your own hype. In short, it is hard to resist thinking you're "all that."

 

[janetfan]

I absolutely agree with this. I do feel that without Orser, it would not have been as easy(and effortless as it looked) for her to gain the OGM. In reality though, I do believe the quite genius of David Wilson and his perceptive approach to make her "a happy skater" has done wonders and his choreagraphy is almost perfectly suited for her. He, more then anyone in Yuna's team knows what makes Yuna tick, and his close relationship with her apparently helped her very much in making the transition from a shy teenager to a much more mature and beguiling presence on ice.

All very true. But I remember Brian and Yuna together as she prepared to skate in Vancouver. I remember Brian there at the boards to greet her when she finished.

I never, ever saw Brian so calm and composed. He said his goal was to keep as much tension off Yuna as possible. That was not Wilson I saw talking to Yuna before she skated - it was Brian - and what a great job he did keeping Yuna in her comfort zone. I will always remememebr how well Brian handled Vancouver. Don't forget, it is Brian and not David and certainly not Ms Park who knows what it feels like to compete under Olympic pressure. Yuna herself has said she felt better knowing that Brian understood the pressure and that she could talk to HIM about it.

Those moments right before you skate and just after you finish - those moments belong to the skater and the coach. I think Brian was flat out terrific for Yuna in Vancouver. I am sure she will never forget what they experienced together.

 

[MrBerkeley]

I think what Hurrah is saying is that when you have millions of people chanting your name, sooner or later you start believing your own hype. In short, it is hard to resist thinking you're "all that."

LOL :thumbsup:

 

[bekalc]

"I wish to thank fans for their support through this difficult time and would like to express regret at the manner in which this parting unfolded. I regret and would like to take back my words regarding the split and would like to express my utmost appreciation and respect for the man that I considered both a friend and a great coach. I have always valued my privacy and continue to feel firmly that all matters should remain between myself and involved individuals. Thank you."

I think that Yu-na shouldn't say anything more about the situation and just let it be. The fact that nobody is talking anymore is helping everyone move on. She can get a new coach and thats it. Maybe she can do a fluff piece at Worlds where she says that she'll always be appreciative what Brian did for her, and that he even though he's not her coach now, the things he taught her will always be responsible for the success in her future. But really I think everyone in this situation just for the most part needs to shut up.

 

[MrBerkeley]

All very true. But I remember Brian and Yuna together as she prepared to skate in Vancouver. I remeber Brian there to greet her when she finished. I never, ever saw Brian so calm and composed. He said his goal was to keep as much tension off Yuna as possible. That was not Wilson I saw talking to Yuna before she sjkated - it was Brian and what a great job he did keeping Yuna is her comfort zone. I will always remememebr how well Brian handled Vancouver. Don't forget, it is Brian and not David and certainly Ms Park who knows what it feels like to compete under Olympic pressure.

You're right. One of the biggest parts of their Vancouver story was that Yuna was IMPRESSED with Brian having dealt with the pressure before. That Brian had been in the Battle of the Brians. He'd been in 2 Olympics. Watching Yuna break down after her free skate and knowing about the CRAZY pressure on her, I think Yuna may have cracked under any other coach. Then again, she really is a tough girl as Orser states himself so who knows. Orser credited Yuna with having a workhorse mentality too.

 

[bekalc]

You're right. One of the biggest parts of their Vancouver story was that Yuna was IMPRESSED with Brian having dealt with the pressure before. That Brian had been in the Battle of the Brians. He'd been in 2 Olympics. Watching Yuna break down after her free skate and knowing about the CRAZY pressure on her, I think Yuna may have cracked under any other coach. Then again, she really is a tough girl as Orser states himself so who knows. Orser credited Yuna with having a workhorse mentality too.

I don't think its fair to say Yu-na would have cracked under any other coach. Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. But the girl for most of her career was a fierce competitor. Did you see how she just dominated her second Junior Season.

I'm sure Brian's experience helped but a coach can only say so much, it is the athlete that has to go out and deliver. Give Yu-na the credit for delivering.

 

[MrBerkeley]

I think that Yu-na shouldn't say anything more about the situation and just let it be. The fact that nobody is talking anymore is helping everyone move on. She can get a new coach and thats it. Maybe she can do a fluff piece at Worlds where she says that she'll always be appreciative what Brian did for her, and that he even though he's not her coach now, the things he taught her will always be responsible for the success in her future. But really I think everyone in this situation just for the most part needs to shut up.

I disagree. I think it would remove the sour taste in all of our mouths and remove a lot of the discomfort and tension FOR THE PARTIES STUCK IN THE MIDDLE. Like David Wilson. May heal things.

Leaving as is only maintains the ugly undercurrent of tension and discomfort for mutual friends.

 

[MrBerkeley]

I don't think its fair to say Yu-na would have cracked under any other coach. Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. But the girl for most of her career was a fierce competitor. Did you see how she just dominated her second Junior Season.

I'm sure Brian's experience helped but a coach can only say so much, it is the athlete that has to go out and deliver. Give Yu-na the credit for delivering.

I did. That's why I said "may" instead of "would." May leaves room for the possibility that it wouldn't have happened. Yuna is absolutely a fierce competitor and a resilient individual. As much as Orser helped, it was her shoulders that was carrying the weight and her skating.

The question is whether Orser was the baby lion sitting on the Lioness Yuna's shoulders lifting up one corner of the pressure weight or Yuna the baby lion with the weight sitting on top of the Dad lion Orser. (in terms of pressure). I mean that's what made this story such a great Olympic story.

MAN IT WAS SUCH A GREAT STORY!!!! :disapp:

 

[ilfs]

All very true. But I remember Brian and Yuna together as she prepared to skate in Vancouver. I remember Brian there at the boards to greet her when she finished.

I never, ever saw Brian so calm and composed. He said his goal was to keep as much tension off Yuna as possible. That was not Wilson I saw talking to Yuna before she skated - it was Brian - and what a great job he did keeping Yuna is her comfort zone. I will always remememebr how well Brian handled Vancouver. Don't forget, it is Brian and not David and certainly not Ms Park who knows what it feels like to compete under Olympic pressure.

Those moments right before you skate and just after you finish - those moments belong to the skater and the coach. I think Brian was flat out terrific for Yuna in Vancouver. I am sure she will never forget what they experienced together.

Yes, I did not mean to minimalize Orser's impact on her success as he has taught her how to deal with enormous pressures of big competitions. But I would still maintain that the soul and spirit of her rather extraordinary expressiveness on the ice started after David Wilson took charge of her choreagraphy.

 

[janetfan]

I'm sure Brian's experience helped but a coach can only say so much, it is the athlete that has to go out and deliver. Give Yu-na the credit for delivering.

Absolutely - but it is the coaches job to do as much training wise - making sure his skater is ready to peak at the right time as well as helping them find their comfort zone. Yuna could have won with a different coach - but I doubt we would have seen her at such a high performance level. Brian gives all credit to Yuna. But he did his job very well.

 

[bekalc]

I disagree. I think it would remove the sour taste in all of our mouths and remove a lot of the discomfort and tension FOR THE PARTIES STUCK IN THE MIDDLE. Like David Wilson. May heal things.

Leaving as is only maintains the ugly undercurrent of tension and discomfort for mutual friends.

I think that most of their mutual friends may be able to handle things better when the fighting stops. I had a horrible fight with a friend of mine at one point. We tried to heal it but there were just to many issues there. Our fighting caused both of us to put all of our friends in the middle and made a horrible situation for everyone. Finally my Campus Pastor told me that I should just let the friendship go, accept the friendship is done, and that maybe if I could accept the friendship was done, everyone could move on. So that's what I did. We just became polite aquaintances, and trust me everyone and I mean EVERYONE was thrilled that the fighting was over. Eventually it got to the point where we were kind of able to "sort of" be friends again in time and after distance.

The point is talking and trying to heal this rift may just be impossible. The best thing for everyone though is for them to stop the public fighting and give space, distance, and stop putting other people like Wilson in the middle of their feud. I.e Yu-na can work with Wilson but somewhere other than the Cricket Club. And Brian can accept and be perfectly okay with David working with Yu-na. That's how adults should handle this and if David doesn't have to deal with every day, Brian's issues with Yu-na or Yu-na's issues with Brian, I'm sure his life would be a lot happier.

I don't think Brian and Yu-na are at a place where either of them can really talk about what happened. Sometimes talking and talking about something doesn't fix things.