Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

[janetfan]

Michelle was worldwide the best of her era and her era was long, Miller had enough equal rivals outside USA that changed from one Olys to the other I say Mary Lou was the best of her era!

I respect your knowledge - but Marylou and most girls from Shannon's era can't touch this:

"During her career, Shannon has won an astounding 59 International and 49 National medals and over half have been Gold, culminating with two Gold Medals at the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta. Shannon led the "Magnificent 7" to Team Gold and, for the first time for any American gymnast, Gold on the balance beam."

Not bad, eh?

 

[seniorita]

Cant compare different decades Miller was one of the best but mid 90s produced lot of top athetes wordwide. Thats all I said, I dont know if she was the best in her era but she was one of the best for sure.

 

[Layfan]

No argument because it would be like Lysacek vs Plushenko kind of thing But yes, she was a GREAT gymnast and actually I would give her the gold in 92 instead of Gutsu

sorry for offtopic,
Go Yuna!!!

I remember a Washington Post story in '92 about Shannon's vault during the all-around. The writer said something like "if it had been Nadia, it would have been an 11." I'm no gymnast, but it certainly looked flawless to me.

ETA: I can't remember the score but it was not a 10.

 

[janetfan]

I remember a Washington Post story in '92 about Shannon's vault during the all-around. The writer said something like "if it had been Nadia, it would have been an 11." I'm no gymnast, but it certainly looked flawless to me.

ETA: I can't remember the score but it was not a 10.

Here it is.......wow, staggeringly good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t_qNxHSAoc

 

[seniorita]

Back in that seasons Miller's vault , full twist yurchenko was performed by almost all girls, judges were seeing this like an often routine, one would put a 9.95 another perfect 10, so thats why her score came out, but yeah the first one, it deserved a ten.
Someone would kick us of this thread very soon...

 

[janetfan]

Back in that seasons Miller's vault , full twist yurchenko was performed by almost all girls, judges were seeing this like an often routine, one would put a 9.95 another perfect 10, so thats why her score came out, but yeah the first one, it deserved a ten.
Someone would kick us of this thread very soon...

I relate it to skating this way. All the top Ladies do triple jumps. But Yuna's triple jumps are staggeringly good.
So Yuna gets big GOE. Maybe Shannon needed some GOE to reach the 10.

 

[earlgrey]

ATS managing Yuna's career - for better or for worse - atleast makes some sense.

But what about Min Jung?

I suspect ATS will have to take good care of MJ or even fans back in Korea will get upset with them.
Afterall, MJ is Korea's #1 skater participating in the Grand Prix this season. To send her home without a coach or resources to compete at her best this season would not reflect well on the the Kim camp. I feel sure they will treat MJ well.

I don't get all this nonsense about MJ Kwak. I don't understand how some ppl can even think this girl's got a potential The judges at 4CC (home advantage, no doubt) event and at olympics were VERY generous with her TES. I saw her skating at 4CC- Haruka Imai is only a year older and had much more power and fire in her skating. MJ would not have gotten all this attention if it weren't the olympics. She is one lucky gal, JMHO. I hope she finds a new coach asap though. She has a lot to work on. Her new sp (canon) was boring and only emphasizes her weakness (lack of power and character).

 

[silverlake22]

I don't get all this nonsense about MJ Kwak. I don't understand how some ppl can even think this girl's got a potential The judges at 4CC (home advantage, no doubt) event and at olympics were VERY generous with her TES. I saw her skating at 4CC- Haruka Imai is only a year older and had much more power and fire in her skating. MJ would not have gotten all this attention if it weren't the olympics. She is one lucky gal, JMHO. I hope she finds a new coach asap though. She has a lot to work on. Her new sp (canon) was boring and only emphasizes her weakness (lack of power and character).

It's not that Min-Jung is that good, it's that she's the best female skater eligible for senior competitions in Korea right now, so it's important she gets good coaching and attention so that she can become better and hold her own once Yuna retires, especially because a lot of Koreans want her to be Yuna's successor. And the girl has been thin her whole life and then grew several centimeters in the past year so it makes sense that she's not that strong now. I mean, her flexibility is quite exceptional, her spins are very nice, and she can at least do all the different kinds of triple jumps even if they aren't that big or powerful. Also, from her time in Canada it looked like she gained more muscle mass and if she can get a good coach then he/she will help her work at becoming stronger and making her jumps more powerful and her skating faster. She needs a coach if she wants to progress though, and she has 2 GP assignments coming up soon, so that's why I think people are so curious about her situation right now.

I may be in the minority but I actually think the girl has potential, I mean, she's 16, she's just a baby and she's already had some good results. Not everyone gets on top of the international scene at age 16 like Mao and Yuna, I mean if you look at Joannie and Laura when they were 16, they weren't that great either but they got better as they got older. Further, her jump technique is fairly good, with more muscle she can have the ideal body for the sport, her spins are already as good as all the top ladies, and her flexibility is beautiful. Speed and strength are really all she needs.

 

[silverlake22]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj7YGO0Iz8A&p=ABA0C476DE086CB7&playnext=1&index=2

17 almost 18 year old Laura Lepisto. Not too exciting, I'd say Min-Jung at 16 is better than she was then. But now Laura's the reigning world bronze medalist and a really good skater. Skaters can improve a lot in their late teens and twenties, Laura is an example of this. Min-Jung could do the same thing.

 

[Mathman]

OK, here is my attempt to relate Shannon Miller to figure skating and break-ups/firings.

If Shannon Miller is not the all-time greatest U.S. lady gymnast, the other candidate for that distinction would have to be Mary Lou Retton.

For quite a number of years after her gold medal performance in the 1984 Olympics, Retton remained in the public eye as "America's sweetheart." She made some money off endorsements and also got some gigs as a motivational speaker.

But some years later she decided to fire her agent, Shep Goldberg, and manage her own business interests. It seems Goldberg had taken on a new client, Michelle Kwan, and Retton felt that she (Retton) was not getting her fair share of Goldberg's attention any more.

 

[Layfan]

OK, here is my attempt to relate Shannon Miller to figure skating and break-ups/firings.

If Shannon Miller is not the all-time greatest U.S. lady gymnast, the other candidate for that distinction would have to be Mary Lou Retton.

For quite a number of years after her gold medal performance in the 1984 Olympics, Retton remained in the public eye as "America's sweetheart." She made some money off endorsements and also got some gigs as a motivational speaker.

But some years later she decided to fire her agent, Shep Goldberg, and manage her own business interests. It seems Goldberg had taken on a new client, Michelle Kwan, and Retton felt that she (Retton) was not getting her fair share of Goldberg's attention any more.

Ha!

Well, Shep know how to pick em.

 

[seniorita]

But some years later she decided to fire her agent, Shep Goldberg, and manage her own business interests. It seems Goldberg had taken on a new client, Michelle Kwan, and Retton felt that she (Retton) was not getting her fair share of Goldberg's attention any more.

Wow MarylOu and Kwan had the same manager?wow, world is small.
Mathman I didnt say Miller was not the all time great gymnast in USa, I just think in her era world got out very very good gymnasts both in 1992 and 1996 who would challenge her internationally like Gutsu, Podkopayeva, Milo, Amanar, Lysenko etc

 

[Olympia]

If it was the arrival of Kwan that caused Mary Lou to fire Shep, then he must have been her agent for about a decade by that time, because ML won in 1984. He did pretty well for her! She won the Gold at the age of I think sixteen, and he helped her into a lucrative career from that achievement alone, with no college degree as I understand it. That's a pretty good combination of her talent and his initiative.

And Goldberg certainly did a great job with Michelle thereafter. (Also combined with her talent and her family's good manners, I must add.) If you compare her and her family's public behavior with that of the Lipinskis after the 1998 OGM, when Tara immediately turned pro, the Lipinskis seemed grasping, whereas the Kwans seemed gracious. I remember that Tara's agent (Mike Burg; just looked it up) came in for a lot of criticism during that period of time for the way her turning pro was handled.

 

[janetfan]

OK, here is my attempt to relate Shannon Miller to figure skating and break-ups/firings.

If Shannon Miller is not the all-time greatest U.S. lady gymnast, the other candidate for that distinction would have to be Mary Lou Retton.

For quite a number of years after her gold medal performance in the 1984 Olympics, Retton remained in the public eye as "America's sweetheart." She made some money off endorsements and also got some gigs as a motivational speaker.

.

Like Michelle, Shannon went to school after she retired and has a master's degree.
I don't think Marylou finished high school.
So yes, Marylou was an outstanding gymnast and like Tara did as much as she could to cash in on her OGM.

Looking at their careers - Marylou is much like Tara.

Shannon, with longevity and so many more medals and World titles is similar to Michelle.

Picking Marylou as the best feels like claiming Tara is the best. But the records don't support that.

Atleast when Tara won her OGM she beat the best. Marylou won in a year with a boycott. Over half of the world's best gymnasts did not compete. Almost an asterisk situation, no?

 

[seniorita]

Picking Marylou as the best feels like claiming Tara is the best. But the records don't support that.

No it is not like that, it is not like picking Tara, you cant just compare, it is a different sport in a different decade. Tara was forgotten and I doubt my neighboor knew her. But Mary Lou videos were showing for educational reason to gymnasts after and she was a darling internationally. I dont judge her by her medals but what she was doing in her era, maybe easy things for now are not even included in the gymnastics, but she was special and I really liked her style as unique (clearly I have only seen videos of her much later but anyway).

Miller was on of the best, internationally and a very popular athlete, of course, but she was challenged, what she could was matched by a bunch of top gymnasts in the world also then. It was the years that produced powerful athletes. She was not the best in her era worldwide however you see it, actually i dont know who i would say the best, i have a bunch of favs there. For one Podkopayeva beat her and she was the epitomy of grace. Many of the ladies I wrote above beat her. I didnt say Mary Lou was the best of the 80s either (Boginskaya:yay, but she was a huge athlete.

 

[janetfan]

No it is not like that, it is not like picking Tara, you cant just compare, it is a different sport in a different decade. Tara was forgotten and I doubt my neighboor knew her. But Mary Lou videos were showing for educational reason to gymnasts after and she was a darling internationally. I dont judge her by her medals but what she was doing in her era, maybe easy things for now are not even included in the gymnastics, but she was special and I really liked her style as unique (clearly I have only seen videos of her much later but anyway).

Miller was on of the best, internationally and a very popular athlete, of course, but she was challenged, what she could was matched by a bunch of top gymnasts in the world also then. It was the years that produced powerful athletes. She was not the best in her era worldwide however you see it, actually i dont know who i would say the best, i have a bunch of favs there. For one Podkopayeva beat her and she was the epitomy of grace. Many of the ladies I wrote above beat her. I didnt say Mary Lou was the best of the 80s either (Boginskaya:yay, but she was a huge athlete.

Sure I can compare.....

Michelle Kwan is the most decorated figure skater in US history.
Shannon Miller is the most decorated gymnast in US history.

That is how they are always introduced here in the USA.

I am not stuck on Shannon being the best of her era - I only say she is still the best gymnast the USA has produced.
Career wise, Nastia and Shawn and others have won more medals at Intl events than Marylou.

Shannon went into '92 Olympics as our # 2/3 girl - young and without the big international rep. She did not have Bela, the Carlo Fassi of gymnastics as her coach in a judged and sometimes political sport.

Like you already said, Shannon might have deserved the all-around Gold in '92. She lost the Gold by the closest margin in Olymoic history. But she went on and won two all-around Worlds gold, led the USA in '96 to it's first ever Olympic Team Gold and just had the best career of any US gymnast.

And like you also said - she competed in a very tough era, and like I said, did not win while a boycott was on.

Anyway, a silly OT discussion. Seniorita, I bow to your knowledge of gymnastics and happy to hear Marylou is the Queen in your country.

 

[Tonichelle]

well... I know who MaryLou is. I can't tell you a thing about Shannon (never heard of her till now, that I'm aware of). I'm not even an "average joe" watcher of gymnastics. It doesn't hold my interest. But even I know who MaryLou is....

 

[YunaBliss]

may i respectfully ask this thread to be closed now? people are not even talking about the topic. thank you!

 

[SerpentineSteps]

may i respectfully ask this thread to be closed now? people are not even talking about the topic. thank you!

I'm shocked that this hasn't happened much earlier, round about when we started talking about Denmark vs. Bangladesh as the happiest country in the world. Like, what? Come on, guys.

 

[janetfan]

well... I know who MaryLou is. I can't tell you a thing about Shannon (never heard of her till now, that I'm aware of). I'm not even an "average joe" watcher of gymnastics. It doesn't hold my interest. But even I know who MaryLou is....

And many non-skating fans know Tonya Harding. But she is not at the top of many people's all-time great skaters list.

Yes, Shep did a good job for Marylou with the media hype after the Olympics. It happened during the cold war. A big fuss was made even though the Russians and most Eastern Euro federations had boycotted those Olympics.

It would be similar to Evan winning the OGM if the Russian and Japanese Men were boycotting. Let's face it - it's not the same thing as beating the best.

Here is a list - pending seniorita's approval

http://sportales.com/gymnastics/greatest-american-female-gymnasts/

and another:

http://sportales.com/gymnastics/10-greatest-female-gymnasts-in-history/