2014 Olympics Mens Free Skate

[Ziggy]

I mean that is sort of my point though- I don't think they are currently symmetrical and I think it is increasing the factor of random chance. It's just my opinion though- I make no secret of the fact that many people here know much more about the men than me. I usually am buried in my ice dancing hole

They are symmetrical. +3 GOE is worth as much as -3 GOE.

 

[3T3T]

Only caught the final group on BBC. A poor competition. I think Chan was robbed being honest and I am not really a fan. There was nothing really to Hanyus programme, I don't know how he got such a huge score for PCS, he could have been skating to any piece of music. The nerves seemed to get to Chan, the victory was there for taking but he came up short.

Well done D10. The last two major champs and he is on the podium, a better short and he could have been higher up. I thought for a long time that his move to Carroll was going nowhere but the last 12 months prove otherwise. My favourite performance was Dai but his jumps were not there, he looked happy when he finished. I also enjoyed Liebers, he is steadily moving up the world rankings, there is room for improvement for sure.

Hard to believe but Pluschenkos team scores would have had him in 3rd.

 

[meem]

Yes, it's damn hard. Everyone gets that. Then retire after it didn't work out after one or two seasons post 2010. Why stay and embarrass not only yourself but everyone else involved? Then you have to have self-indulgent pep talks. It's sickening.

Jeremy Abbott, as a US Olympian, is in Russia representing his country at the Winter Olympics. I can't believe he showed his butt with such a disgusting comment. At least Plushenko, when asked what he had to say to his critics, responded with "Thank you very much" as he looked straight into the camera with a big smile. I thought Abbott said he was retiring after the Olympics, thus allowing Max Aaron to go to Worlds. If Jeremy thinks he's been harshly criticized so far, he's going to be in for a lot more criticism if he shows up at Worlds and implodes again.

 

[Mrs. P]

Jeremy Abbott, as a US Olympian, is in Russia representing his country at the Winter Olympics. I can't believe he showed his butt with such a disgusting comment. At least Plushenko, when asked what he had to say to his critics, responded with "Thank you very much" as he looked straight into the camera with a big smile. I thought Abbott said he was retiring after the Olympics, thus allowing Max Aaron to go to Worlds. If Jeremy thinks he's been harshly criticized so far, he's going to be in for a lot more criticism if he shows up at Worlds and implodes again.

Actually, Max Aaron is going to Worlds. It was a compromise the international committee did for Max's decent performance at Nationals. Jason is first alternate.

 

[amateur]

Here is the Washington Post's report on Abbott.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...es-out-at-critics-discusses-olympic-pressure/

Thanks for sharing that excerpt about Yuka's action!

 

[Matilda]

I agree. He performed a few masterpieces after 2010. But he never really won another Worlds/OM, especially when he deserved to (2012) ... Dai is one of the few people I'd love to watch just skating and performing in any capacity, competition or not.

I'm still mad about the 2012 Worlds results And I totally agree with you about wanting to just watch him skate in some capacity. One of the highlights of SA for me was to see Dai skate live. He wasn't in his top form, but I could just watch him do crossovers for an hour Simply seeing his effortless, elegant skating in practice was good for my soul I wish there was a show that could bring skaters like Dai and Akiko to the US!

 

[Mathman]

If reward and penalty aren't symmetrical than you are increasing the factor of random chance versus skill.

I don't think athletes look at it as "random chance." True, not all shots in basketball go it, and a player who hits 50% against good defense is doing well. But if you ask the player afterwards, he will never blame it on luck. The ball went in because I shot it correctly. The ball did not go in because i didn't shoot it correctly. We don't want to have a situation where a skater will throw up a quad just because he has a fifty-fifty chance of landing it, and the risk-reward points are 51-49 in his favor.

Can you do this jump or not?

Ice skating rule number one: metal side down. Build from there. :yes:

 

[bekalc]

If reward and penalty aren't symmetrical than you are increasing the factor of random chance versus skill.

Ziggy, I have a hard time with random chance. Hanyu hasn't landed his quad sals at all this year (except for in Finland) How exactly is it random chance that he fell on on his quad sal?

Plushenko almost always lands his quads, and Jeremy Abbott doesn't, and Evan had issues too. How exactly is this random chance.

Yu-na Kim has pretty much a 90% record with her triple lutz/triple toe. Whereas others not so good of a record... Random chance?

Patrick has issues going clean. Its not the first time Patrick has put in error filled programs. So how is this random chance?


I mean is it really random chance that Chan messed up both of his triple axels and a double axel, and Hanyu landed three gorgeous ones? I don't think so. Hanyu's got much better triple axel technique.

Yes there is times when things can be off and you can slip do something wrong. That's sport. But it seems to me the random chance on falling hits the same skaters.

Yes accidents can happen. But it seems to me that you have some skaters who have mastered elements like quads, and other skaters who have not mastered those elements.

Its not random chance that Hanyu fell on that quad sal. Not in any way shape or form.

These skaters have mastered the technique of being able to land on their blade and yes handing cracks on the ice etc..

 

[Olympia]

I'm still mad about the 2012 Worlds results And I totally agree with you about wanting to just watch him skate in some capacity. One of the highlights of SA for me was to see Dai skate live. He wasn't in his top form, but I could just watch him do crossovers for an hour Simply seeing his effortless, elegant skating in practice was good for my soul I wish there was a show that could bring skaters like Dai and Akiko to the US!

I'm with you. No matter how Daisuke did in this Olympics, he's still the only one who skates like Daisuke. I could watch him all day. He'll stay on my Forever List with Browning, Wylie, Lambiel, Curry, Yagudin, and a few others.

 

[emma]

Dai's definitely on my Forever list too. I will say, though, that the Beetle's medley was among my least favorites of his. I actually quite liked his Moonlight Sonata....anyway, there are so many great programs of his but, his Blues for Klook and In the Garden of Souls....anyway, his smile today made me smile. I'm just sad that we don't get to see him in the Exhibition. Do you know if he is planning to skate at worlds (I can only hope so, given the location).

 

[dardar1126]

I have not read the 94 (!) pages of this thread; here is my 2 cents:

Positive memorable moments:

* Jeremy pulling himself together after the SP fall, finishing the program, and then skating a clean LP-nice way to finish.

* Michael Christian Martinez of the Philippines - what a breath of fresh air! Good jumper, stylish, musicality - has a great future. He MUST (will) earn sponsorship from his performances...he has the makings of a real champion!!

* Denis Ten winning the bronze...so happy for him!! :yay: He's been cheated out of the marks/placements he's deserved in the past...but not this time...GOOD JOB!

* Hanyu's SP...epic!

Disappointments:

* Number of errors/sloppy long programs by some of the top skaters (I'm looking at you, Yuzuru and Patrick). They skated okay, but the programs were not the memorable performances we were hoping for.

* Too many errors by Javi (see above); he had a real chance at bronze...too bad.

 

[sweetskates1]

I agree - Dai is on my Forever list too and I do not like the Beatle's medley much either.... Daisuke winning the World Championships would make me happy, so happy. He is so great - and as much as I love Stephan - my Japanese love is even faster and pushed that quad even more. I love both of the aforementioned so very much. Jeremy would be on my list - he is - not would be - but he remains on it with more stains. Ugghh... I hate loving skaters that do not with Olympic gold - my Michelle Kwan - that goddess that belongs to so many - the original Swan Princess - Ms. Cohen and her splat fests - elegance personified - Todd Eldredge - gosh why only the King of the Ice - Yagudin won.... only him.... all the others on my Forever list - sigh* Maybe Yuzuru will land squarely on my Forever list - I sure do love him but I am not ready to commit yet.

Dai's definitely on my Forever list too. I will say, though, that the Beetle's medley was among my least favorites of his. I actually quite liked his Moonlight Sonata....anyway, there are so many great programs of his but, his Blues for Klook and In the Garden of Souls....anyway, his smile today made me smile. I'm just sad that we don't get to see him in the Exhibition. Do you know if he is planning to skate at worlds (I can only hope so, given the location).

 

[Ophelia]

Random thought - Since it's likely that Hanyu will continue skating and show up at the next Olympics, do you guys think he'll stick with Brian Orser as his coach, or move his training back to Japan?

 

[Olympia]

I agree - Dai is on my Forever list too and I do not like the Beatle's medley much either.... Daisuke winning the World Championships would make me happy, so happy. He is so great - and as much as I love Stephan - my Japanese love is even faster and pushed that quad even more. I love both of the aforementioned so very much. Jeremy would be on my list - he is - not would be - but he remains on it with more stains. Ugghh... I hate loving skaters that do not with Olympic gold - my Michelle Kwan - that goddess that belongs to so many - the original Swan Princess - Ms. Cohen and her splat fests - elegance personified - Todd Eldredge - gosh why only the King of the Ice - Yagudin won.... only him.... all the others on my Forever list - sigh* Maybe Yuzuru will land squarely on my Forever list - I sure do love him but I am not ready to commit yet.

If you added John Curry to your Forever List, you would have another gold medalist. But you make a good point: most of those on my list, at least the individual skaters, did not end up with an OGM. Kwan, Yuka Sato, and Janet Lynn are the main examples. Interestingly, most of the ice dancers on my list, though not all, did win gold.

 

[Kalina]

Hanyu has been landing his 4S consistently in practice in Sochi, all week. Had some minor trouble with it one day, but that was it. IMO, it's a mental block that he has, and I hope that this skate in Sochi is going to help him overcome it.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but Orser addressed with him the issue of putting in a second 4T in combination instead of the salchow at the end of last season, but he refused.

 

[Seruleane]

"I would just hold my middle finger in the air and say a big 'F you' to everyone who has ever said that to me because they have never stood in my shoes.
"They've never had to do what I had to do. Nobody has to stand center ice before a million people and put an entire career on the line for eight minutes of their life when they've been doing it for 20-some years. And if you don't think that that's not hard, you're a damn idiot.
"So some people can handle it better than others, but everyone has that mental struggle, everyone goes through the same doubts. I am not alone. They just come at different times and different moments. Some people have their moment at the Olympics, and some have theirs at the national championships.
"I'm proud to be standing here. I'm a four-time national champion and a two-time Olympian, and no one can take that away from me. So whatever people have to say about me, that's their own problem because I'm freaking proud of what I've done and I'm not going to apologize for any of it."

Oh Jeremy, Just when people started to like you again and give you credit for finishing your SP after your fall. Yes like others had said, it's time to retire.

I can understand Jeremy's sentiment completely, but to actually express it the way he did was a major fail...no wonder people don't like him. It's really a pity b/c he's a lovely skater with his own very distinct style.

 

[kresslia]

Other than the 4S, Hanyu seemed quite consistent coming into the Olympics compared to Chan. So in the end, I think Hanyu gold medal is well deserved.

You can't just say "other than the 4S". Fact is, Hanyu was never clean with the LP in these last 5 competitions. Patrick was clean twice. That's why I was, in fact, a bit surprised Patrick fell apart as badly as he did, he had lots of room for error and had skated his LP cleanly at two of the last three competitons. It's a shame.

 

[bekalc]

Hanyu has been landing his 4S consistently in practice in Sochi, all week. Had some minor trouble with it one day, but that was it. IMO, it's a mental block that he has, and I hope that this skate in Sochi is going to help him overcome it.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but Orser addressed with him the issue of putting in a second 4T in combination instead of the salchow at the end of last season, but he refused.

I realize its a mental block. But to quote Yagudin , a jump is not consistent unless you land it in competition. I am not sure it was wise to use it at the Olympics because its clearly not there yet. However, he may have felt if he didn't go for it, he'd regret it.

 

[coolboogie22]

Michael Christian Martinez was my favorite performance of that night

 

[aftertherain]

Jeremy Abbott, as a US Olympian, is in Russia representing his country at the Winter Olympics. I can't believe he showed his butt with such a disgusting comment. At least Plushenko, when asked what he had to say to his critics, responded with "Thank you very much" as he looked straight into the camera with a big smile. I thought Abbott said he was retiring after the Olympics, thus allowing Max Aaron to go to Worlds. If Jeremy thinks he's been harshly criticized so far, he's going to be in for a lot more criticism if he shows up at Worlds and implodes again.

Have you selectively forgotten the last four years because of this one moment?