The Judging Controversy Thread

[waxel]

Wasn't the technical caller Russian? There's a lot that doesn't add up. Or perhaps it adds up just as planned? We can speculate but never really know.

Don't think she should have won, but I'm not a Sotnikova hater by any means. But dear God... put on some lip stick!

 

[NineTails]

Oh, please! Are you saying that PCS was fixed before the competition even began? This was not an automatic coronation to the queen!

I'm definitely suggesting that and I'm not the only one. Really, how can we not when one of the judges husband is the head of the Russian Federation. Another was a Ukraine judge already once suspended for fixing the Nagano Olympics. How can they let a judge that was already caught cheating?

 

[andyjo24]

Wasn't the technical caller Russian? There's a lot that doesn't add up. Or perhaps it adds up just as planned? We can speculate but never really know.

Don't think she should have won, but I'm not a Sotnikova hater by any means. But dear God... put on some lip stick!

Yes, he is Russian. And also, two of the judges in the short program (the Korean and American judge) were taken out, and a Ukranian judge (who was banned at Nagano) and a Russian judge who happens to be the wife of the head of the Russian Fed were added for the free skate. If this isn't corruption, what is?

 

[Ven]

Wasn't the technical caller Russian? There's a lot that doesn't add up. Or perhaps it adds up just as planned? We can speculate but never really know.

Don't think she should have won, but I'm not a Sotnikova hater by any means. But dear God... put on some lip stick!

I like Adelina, I was hoping she'd make the podium pre-Olympics! She was always the best Russian girl in my eyes, not Julia .... but not like this. Not like this.

Like Katerina Witt said ... "Shame gold medal. It's a shame."

 

[andyjo24]

I guess Russia wasn't too confident about their skaters overtaking Kim after the short based on their replacement of the judges?

 

[andyjo24]

I like Adelina, I was hoping she'd make the podium pre-Olympics! She was always the best Russian girl in my eyes, not Julia .... but not like this. Not like this.

Like Katerina Witt said ... "Shame gold medal. It's a shame."

Me too! I've always favored Adelina's SS skills and presentation to Julia's, but the gold medal she won today was a shame...... It is not her fault. The judges are to blame.

 

[usethis2]

Wasn't the technical caller Russian? There's a lot that doesn't add up. Or perhaps it adds up just as planned? We can speculate but never really know.

Don't think she should have won, but I'm not a Sotnikova hater by any means. But dear God... put on some lip stick!

Yes, a Russian and a Russia defector. Plus a French. A perfect storm, indeed.

 

[usethis2]

I like Adelina, I was hoping she'd make the podium pre-Olympics! She was always the best Russian girl in my eyes, not Julia .... but not like this. Not like this.

Like Katerina Witt said ... "Shame gold medal. It's a shame."

Totally. I stood for Adelina when she was buried by Yulia, but this wasn't what I expected nor hoped for. Bad taste all around.

 

[BlackPack]

I thought Adelina deserved to win the gold. Yuna's choreography was disjointed and didn't have the attention to detail we're used to expecting from her; there was a lot of recycling of old moves. The most exquisite programs of this event were Mao's and Caro's. Yuna's skating wasn't as good as in Vancouver. Yuna's LP from Vancouver would have won - pure technical brilliance with competent choreographic interpretation. But not here.

Yuna's most artistic program was Danse Macabre, but it is hard to put her other programs on that level. To call her an artist is a bit much. The argument that her PCS are much better than Sotnikova's and especially Caro's is weak. Yuna's extension and body line weren't fantastic either. I'd say she was on par with Sotnikova.

Yes, the crowd was full of partisan ingrates from the beginning to the end of the skating events.

People made it sound as though Adelina fell or did a gross UR on her jumps, but no; it was simply a double that can exist or not. Her choreography was as good as Yuna's. As mentioned, Yuna's "tango" was no artistic breakthrough. The only lady on the podium who had the best PCS was Caro, not Yuna nor Adelina.

And what about Mao - she attempted and accomplished more technically than anyone in this event and probably ladies' figure skating history, regardless of edge and UR calls. Artistically, both Chopin and Rachmaninov suited her elegant and lovely style. My heart no longer aches for her as I did yesterday - she showed everyone her potential and did it with great style and courage.

Gracie Gold - I saw her as someone exquisite last season. I didn't understand why people mocked her to be a robot. She wasn't and she isn't now. Zoueva brought out the true American ice princess look. She has elegance and she can attack when needed. It's been a while since skating has seen such a transformation since Michelle did Salome. It turns out I was right she can be the next Caro or Caro-esque, but I won't be like some posters who claim to be right or that they're oracles. I don't care about being right or wrong - I just want the people I like to do well ;-)

Yuna's TES as well as PCS could have been slammed or had reasons to be - close landings, possible URs, edge calls, lesser technical content, and unimaginative choreography. These didn't used to be her problems. Tara is wrong. Yuna's skating isn't as good as before. Her Korean coaches, reported to be her first coaches, are dimwits. They're constantly dumbfounded. They don't know why she gets her certain scores. She might as well go Michelle Kwan and coach herself. They didn't give her the proper guidance for creating a Bolero-level program. As for training, there is no one better on technique than her. She definitely needed a "real" coach, and that isn't like Jason Brown's situation who actually has a "real" coach whom some people don't consider one.

Caro could have done better technical content. She had several opportunities to add a 3toe to one of her triples, especially the gorgeous 3F, but didn't. She conceded the technical content, and that was her choice. She skated a masterpiece that's surely as beautiful and memorable as Michelle's Concerto de Aranjuez or Rachmaninov Second Piano Concerto.

The only thing I don't agree with is having Adelina's PCS so high and being nearly 8 points ahead. I think it was close. In the old system, it would be a 5-4 split situation that would have given the gold to Adelina.

It just looks like this current system is much ado about nothing. All these experts and mathematical formulas still can't root out the opportunistic subjectivity of the judges. They'll increase/decrease the GOEs when they want to and to prop or demote skaters as they see fit. In the old system, at least judges would be forced to give skaters some recognition of what was executed; now they have GOEs to enhance or discount what was accomplished. Actually, this current system works the same as the old one! Might as well go back. At least it's easier to understand and it gives everyone great pleasure to hear 6.0s!

Sorry guys, I thought Adelina deserved it. She fought for it and skated with so much youthful joy. Even more joyful than Tara in 1998. She was an underdog and she rose to the occasion. Everyone was coddling Lipnitskaia and Plushenko, hailing them as Olympic gods here to save us mere mortals. But it was Sotnikova, the forgotten young Russian underdog, to redeem Russian skating and give them what they really wanted. The Russians, with the current state of their country, needed this. I'm proud of this youngster.

All this talk about corruption and Putin's mafia threatening people, well, they're probably realities. But Sotnikova made a case for herself. She earned her gold.

This was an incredible Olympics. The only exception was the Men's bloody event, but so many people rose to the occasion in dance and ladies. I was fully expecting a splatfest, but I was wrong. I'm glad to be wrong. So many memories to cherish.

 

[Frenchie]

Caro could have done better technical content. She had several opportunities to add a 3toe but didn't. She conceded the technical content, and that was her choice. She skated a masterpiece that's surely as beautiful and memorable as Michelle's Concerto de Aranjuez or Rachmaninov Second Piano Concert.

Caro did 2 triple Toes: First a 2A3T and later a 3T2T. Adding a third triple Toe would have meant 0 points for that invalid element.

 

[Selene]

This result was a bit of a shock to me. Looking back, I don't know why. The writing was on the wall, because the vastly inflated scoring of Russian skaters starting with the team event (and continuing with the pairs and dance events.)

I have a big issue with the technical panel (conveniently stacked with Russians) overlooking Russian skaters' technical deficiencies. Notice that most skaters were dinged for edge violations, but Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia's flutzes were ignored by the technical panel? Notice that Sotnikova's clearly UR 3Lz-3T, with the big hook on the landing, was given full credit? And that she got level 4 for her footwork sequences while skaters with superior skating skills received level 3s?

Sotnikova got at 4-5 more points in TES than she deserved, as a result of the Russian controller ignoring her technical issues. And her PCS was boosted through the roof, outscoring Mao Asada and Carolina Kostner. How many objective observers would agree that Adelina is a better pure skater or has better programs than them?

I did think Yuna Kim's program and performance were flat, but she didn't have a chance to win. The judges made sure Adelina's score was so big that she couldn't overcome it, especially as she lacks the 3Lo.

 

[yuki90]

This result was a bit of a shock to me. Looking back, I don't know why. The writing was on the wall, because the vastly inflated scoring of Russian skaters starting with the team event (and continuing with the pairs and dance events.)

I have a big issue with the technical panel (conveniently stacked with Russians) overlooking Russian skaters' technical deficiencies. Notice that most skaters were dinged for edge violations, but Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia's flutzes were ignored by the technical panel? Notice that Sotnikova's clearly UR 3Lz-3T, with the big hook on the landing, was given full credit? And that she got level 4 for her footwork sequences while skaters with superior skating skills received level 3s?

Sotnikova got at 4-5 more points in TES than she deserved, as a result of the Russian controller ignoring her technical issues. And her PCS was boosted through the roof, outscoring Mao Asada and Carolina Kostner. How many objective observers would agree that Adelina is a better pure skater or has better programs than them?

I did think Yuna Kim's program and performance were flat, but she didn't have a chance to win. The judges made sure Adelina's score was so big that she couldn't overcome it, especially as she lacks the 3Lo.

YuNa was a true champion. It was a performance of age like Sandra said.
Watch BBC ,CBC, Spain, German TV, Even Italian commentators were so upset about the result. they said YuNa should win gold and Caro take silver.

 

[vegarin]

YuNa was a true champion. It was a performance of age like Sandra said.
Watch BBC ,CBC, Spain, German TV, Even Italian commentators were so upset about the result. they said YuNa should win gold and Caro take silver.

I'm not sure if it was or was not. That would depend on one's taste. I thought it was lovely; others thought it wasn't. That's fair enough.

But that list of judges makes the scores look questionable, no matter what.

 

[Ven]

The petition to investigate the judging now has almost 1.2 million signatures!

 

[bara1968]

Again, Again, we have to start from SP to judge whether Sot deserved the gold or not.

Did Sot deserve the SP score she earned? Absolutely NOT. +35 PCS and 2nd placement with 3T+3T? Only lady in top 3 who received lv4 in Stsq? With THAT program?

How can you possibly justify Sot's SP score? There should have been much more score difference from SP, between Yuna CaroK and Sot.

For LP : It is simply wrong to compare Yuna 2010 to Yuna 2014 to justify Sot's win. Yuna 2014 needed to top Sot 2014, not Yuna 2010 to win gold. And did she do that?

In every single category of PCS, Yuna Kim should have gained lot more points than Sot. There had to be way more score difference.

How about GOE? Yuna's 3Lz+3T and 3F was even smoother and higher than before. They satisfy height, ice-coverage, effortlessness, bit delayed, etc to satisfy +2 GOE category at least. Her 3Sal, and especially 2A were outstanding too. Look at the flow in and out! Yuna is not an ordinary jumper. She is the best ever jumper produced by COP.

Her quality of Jumps were not worse than 2013 worlds, but GOE was way lower than she got before.

How about Sot's jump GOE? Like someone already pointed out, one judge gave automatic +3s to EVERYTHING she jumped. How can that be justified? How can her 3Lz 3T can get +1-+2, or even +3 GOE with wrong edge on Lz and very much borderline(if not URed) 3T ? How about her 2 footed double jump which was very much URed in the combination?

If these were corrected, Sot's TES would be somewhat at least 3 pts lower than she actually got.

Tech panel. This tech panel gave UR to somewhat borderline triples to all the ladies from SP, but not to Russians. No edge calls to Russians. Level 4 stsq only to the Russians.

I mean, how can ISU let Russian Judge to be a technical Panel in the Olympics in Russia? How can that happen?

Sot may have slight, slight edge over Yuna for doing 3L, but the difference in TES should have been much less. I don't even want to go to PCS category.

Combined with SP, no, the result does NOT make any sense.

Yuna outskated Sot, period.

 

[acco-lade]

So shocked at this planned job in the Olympic figure skating which reached the climax finally in woman . is this sport the one by the power of country or money?
I would say to a growing child for figure skating "if your country were to be strong, When you want a medal ardently, just focus on a clean and try only more than a mediocre
Not much on accuracy , perfection of jump, edge ,step etc. Then you should get it. Dont worry!! we would give you the same GOE and PCS."

This is what the figure skating currently and what is happening now.

 

[Ven]

I don't think anyone wants another conspiracy scandal. Another scandal will kill figure skating.



These people are not helping to make skating more popular. They are helping to kill skating.

Good. If the judging is not honest, then the sport should be killed and it should be banned from the Olympics. Sports are fair competition. Want to be a sport? Don't rig the results.

 

[andyjo24]

again, again, we have to start from sp to judge whether sot deserved the gold or not.

Did sot deserve the sp score she earned? Absolutely not. +35 pcs and 2nd placement with 3t+3t? Only lady in top 3 who received lv4 in stsq? With that program?

How can you possibly justify sot's sp score? There should have been much more score difference from sp, between yuna carok and sot.

For lp : It is simply wrong to compare yuna 2010 to yuna 2014 to justify sot's win. Yuna 2014 needed to top sot 2014, not yuna 2010 to win gold. And did she do that?

In every single category of pcs, yuna kim should have gained lot more points than sot. There had to be way more score difference.

How about goe? Yuna's 3lz+3t and 3f was even smoother and higher than before. They satisfy height, ice-coverage, effortlessness, bit delayed, etc to satisfy +2 goe category at least. Her 3sal, and especially 2a were outstanding too. Look at the flow in and out! Yuna is not an ordinary jumper. She is the best ever jumper produced by cop.

Her quality of jumps were not worse than 2013 worlds, but goe was way lower than she got before.

How about sot's jump goe? Like someone already pointed out, one judge gave automatic +3s to everything she jumped. How can that be justified? How can her 3lz 3t can get +1-+2, or even +3 goe with wrong edge on lz and very much borderline(if not ured) 3t ? How about her 2 footed double jump which was very much ured in the combination?

If these were corrected, sot's tes would be somewhat at least 3 pts lower than she actually got.

Tech panel. This tech panel gave ur to somewhat borderline triples to all the ladies from sp, but not to russians. No edge calls to russians. Level 4 stsq only to the russians.

I mean, how can isu let russian judge to be a technical panel in the olympics in russia? How can that happen?

Sot may have slight, slight edge over yuna for doing 3l, but the difference in tes should have been much less. I don't even want to go to pcs category.

Combined with sp, no, the result does not make any sense.

Yuna outskated sot, period.

amen.

 

[jehan215]

Good. If the judging is not honest, then the sport should be killed and it should be banned from the Olympics. Sports are fair competition. Want to be a sport? Don't rig the results.

Yeah, I heard that ISU was already warned once by the IOC (after the 2002 SLC scandal, I presume) and if another scandal were to unleash then figure skating at the Olympics would be no more. But I reckon if ISU wants to prove its integrity and fairness, they should go under the investigation process in the spirit of good sportmanship. As I have warned oh-so-many times in previous posts, by delivering unfair scores (whether overscored or underscored) ISU has brought a war upon themselves - nay, dug themselves into their own graves.

 

[starrynight]

So you're saying there is a home advantage. I don't disagree with that. I don't think it's due to corruption but rather the judges being swayed by the audience reaction.

Do you think it is very ethical to have a judge who gets the entire discretion in GOE and PCS and happens to be the wife of your competitor's business partner?