I agree with Medusa as well. It's so much different when a sports team like the Detroit Lions is getting bashed in the papers. Sports teams are full of dozens of people, and the blame is spread out amongst them. But skating is an individual sport, and I hate seeing any individual getting overly criticized in the papers, especially when it's uncalled for.
Philip Hersh I told you so article
- Thread starter justaskatingfan
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- Mar 23, 2008
I more or less agree with Hersh here... I also agree that harsh words are a lot worse targeted at a 15-year old girl than a sports team. I'm guessing Hersh was as annoyed as I was about all the people who said Caroline's 4th place at 4CC was a rightful ticket to Worlds, who were so quick to slander Czisny and praise Zhang after a single competition. To combat their lack of perspective, he ... lost perspective in the other direction.
The proper point is that you can't base a skater's future performance on one competition. 4CC was better than average for Caroline, JW was slightly worse. That's how it goes. Rachael Flatt is the closest thing we have to dependable. The rest are all wild cards on any given night. Michelle Kwan spoiled us. That kind of consistency is rare. What we do need is someone that can score so high, like the asians, that even with screwups they can still come out among the top, instead of fall into 12th...
The proper point is that you can't base a skater's future performance on one competition. 4CC was better than average for Caroline, JW was slightly worse. That's how it goes. Rachael Flatt is the closest thing we have to dependable. The rest are all wild cards on any given night. Michelle Kwan spoiled us. That kind of consistency is rare. What we do need is someone that can score so high, like the asians, that even with screwups they can still come out among the top, instead of fall into 12th...
I think you nailed it. The ATTACHMENT that some fans (or maybe these would be the ubers) feel or have to a particular skater is just unbelievable IMO. Look, no one is going to like everybody, everybody isn't going to like one. Why can't the folks just leave it at that? Meh, oh well.
But that's the very problem- the root of the problem. Let me be DA for a moment. I'll speak in a generic sense here- it doesn't even have to be skating-related. Suppose you don't like their persona, you think they're full of it or you can't stand their neurotic fanatics. Of course, this "hate" isn't exactly in the same sense but you get negative energy from them, let's just say it like that. Same way in team sports. If skating is a REAL sport, as its fans suggest, then I think its fans should be free to "love" or "hate" whomever they want. As long as we don't have the two extremes (stalking or death threats) it's fine. Can't have it both ways.
The skaters know this and can live with it and deal with it. It's part of sport. Otherwise, we may as well be at the circus (and even that isn't free of criticism, ha!)
Just my very controversial 2 cents. have at it.
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- Jan 23, 2004
If you hate someone's skating, ball playing or tennis playing o.k., but when you hate the actual person then IMO hate becomes an ugly word.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Hersh is a man and writes about sports as a man would. He's not a coddler. His Yang side never shows in his writing. I find it refreshing even if I do not agree with him. I can't be bothered with arm chair critics who only think about the country and not the indivual and continually offer excuses for bad skates.
Caroline skated poorly in her SP routine. She skated gorgeously in her LP. Over and Out.
World's predictions will take place soon. Leonova for me is on my imposter list. I doubt she will make top ten. There are sooo many female skaters far superior to her. Caroline won't be there but if she were, it is easy to say who would place higher. Yes?
Caroline skated poorly in her SP routine. She skated gorgeously in her LP. Over and Out.
World's predictions will take place soon. Leonova for me is on my imposter list. I doubt she will make top ten. There are sooo many female skaters far superior to her. Caroline won't be there but if she were, it is easy to say who would place higher. Yes?
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- Jun 21, 2003
Well, I am not so impressed by cavemen beating on their chests. I think Phil should dare to let his gentler side show.
If only Hersh had said that, there would be no problem.
But instead, what he said was: Caroline skated poorly in the SP, which proves that she did not deserve to represent the U.S. at senior worlds.
And then in the next article: Caroline skated well in the LP, proving how inconsistent she is.
If Hersh were a real man he would own up to having passed premature judgment in the first article. :yes:
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- Feb 9, 2009
Who gave this guy the green light to write about figure skating?
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- Mar 13, 2008
There was nothing "premature" about what he said. She had a crappy SP. He wrote about it after. Its not like he wrote about her poor performance before it actual happened. She skated badly, far worse than anyoe would have epected given the general attitude that she "deserves" to be on the Sr. World team, and I don't know why its such a crime to call her on it.
I don't recall Caroline ever saying that she deserved to be on the World team, so what is there to "call her on"?
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- Feb 9, 2009
Every skater can have a bad day, It sounds like he is happy she did and had to shout it out. That is just how I feel about though..
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- Mar 13, 2008
Maybe "call her on it" isn't the right wording... She had a bad SP and I don't see why Phil should have to sugar-coat that and pretend that she didn't have a mini-meltdown.
While his job is to report on the event as it was happening, without sugar-coating, he, like many press people has the tendency to magnify the importance of the facts, either positive or negative.
I would not give much importance to an article, as the guy has a job to do. The reality is he likes better to write in negative tone, criticizing.
Every skater has good days, bad days, they are human. Caroline is not imune to that either. Especially at her age, she has to adjust with growth, she is in a work in progress period.
Hersh will refocus his attention to Worlds and watch him coming out with a big mouth if Czisny and Flatt will dissapoint.
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- Mar 14, 2006
I also think there's a difference between "hating" someone who's 7 feet tall, makes 10 million a year, could squash you between his thumb and forefinger, has a whole team full of buddies the same size, and tens of millions of screaming fans... and "hating" on a 15-year-old girl in powder blue who weighs about 90 pounds and is out there all by herself.
I doubt these young skaters get used to what amounts to cyberbullying. Hopefully their parents and coaches protect them from it one way or another.
Again, I ask, what does size have to do with it? Criticism is part of SPORTS. This is a SPORT (so they say) and these are ATHLETES competing. They're tough. They can take it. If they can't, then they don't belong- simple as that. It's up to whoever is supposed to watch the younger girls (i.e. under 14) to make sure they don't see something that could possibly offend them. At the same time, they should be told that things will get said about them and they may not like it.
Now, I should clarify that it's a whole 'nother thing to EXPOSE them to what's being said. But when they choose to compete at this level, they need to know that it comes with the territory. Also, they need to know how to deal with press scrutiny. They'll build you up and up and up if you look promising, yet when you fall, they'll knock you down just as quickly. Part of the competitive game is to stay in your zone and not worry about what anyone else says about you.
This goes for all sports.
This goes for all sports.
