Ryan Bradley on Kaetlyn Osmond

amc987 · Dec 11, 2016

Skatergal101 said:
Actually she landed 6 triples at finlandia trophy this yr.

Okay, so she did a 6-triple program once at a senior B. You're right. Her competitive record is on par with Medvedeva's and Wagner's and Gold's. :sarcasm:

Kaetlyn has potential. We'll see if she fulfills it. It's ridiculous to treat her as the the messiah of Canadian ladies' skating when her int'l senior career highlight is finishing 4th at the GPF.

TGee · Dec 11, 2016

amc987 said:
Kaetlyn has potential. We'll see if she fulfills it. It's ridiculous to treat her as the the messiah of Canadian ladies' skating when her int'l senior career highlight is finishing 4th at the GPF.

While this is only one example, the repetitive 'straw man' so it can be shot down arguments are getting old....

Messiah...no...

But has she broken a glass ceiling....definitely.

Canada has arguably struggled in the ladies discipline since Barbara Ann Scott.

We've had a system that seems to be happy with promoting one women and holding back the development of depth of field...

And that seems to have meant that even when Canada has produced podium placing women, they seem to be the ones that many GS posters categorize as "under appreciated"...Karen Magnussen, Elizabeth Manley, Joannie Rochette among others...

sabinfire · Dec 11, 2016

Did anyone hear what Johnny Weir said about Kaetlyn on NBCSN's coverage tonight? He said, "This felt fake to me, a lot of 'touch my face and feel good about myself' moments." :rofl:

Interspectator · Dec 11, 2016

sabinfire said:
Did anyone hear what Johnny Weir said about Kaetlyn on NBCSN's coverage tonight? He said, "This felt fake to me, a lot of 'touch my face and feel good about myself' moments."

Upload, or it didn't happen.

Also, Johnny is one to talk! He's had so many touch my face feel good moments in his programs. :laugh:

Still, I understand where he's coming from. I feel that way about Ashley's style sometimes. But it's very subjective. I think Kaetlyn has the skills to be one of the best ladies in the current field. She just needs to, you know, not pop jumps. :thumbsup:
If I can cheer for Evgenia's totally weird programs, cheering for Osmond is a walk in the park.

Crossover · Dec 11, 2016

sabinfire said:
Did anyone hear what Johnny Weir said about Kaetlyn on NBCSN's coverage tonight? He said, "This felt fake to me, a lot of 'touch my face and feel good about myself' moments."

:disapp: All I can say is "Time for new blood for NBC Sports except Terry Gannon".

sabinfire · Dec 11, 2016

Interspectator said:
Upload, or it didn't happen.

https://youtu.be/km_b64mi5h0 It's at the end.

4everchan · Dec 11, 2016

well... is it tara who says : no no... i kinda like it.. she's feeling pretty johnny... or something like that...

I don't get the hate for that program. it is a very nice program. one of the least annoying puccini's i've seen in a long time.

sabinfire said:
https://youtu.be/km_b64mi5h0 It's at the end.

Osmond4gold · Dec 11, 2016

amc987 said:
Okay, so she did a 6-triple program once at a senior B. You're right. Her competitive record is on par with Medvedeva's and Wagner's and Gold's. :sarcasm:

Kaetlyn has potential. We'll see if she fulfills it. It's ridiculous to treat her as the the messiah of Canadian ladies' skating when her int'l senior career highlight is finishing 4th at the GPF.

Wow,...as a start and an end, how about an Olympic Silver Medal which Med, nor Wagner or Gold have on their competitive resume. BTW, disrespect people much? I am sure your parents are ...proud.

As Kathy Bates would say,...TOWANDA!!!

TGee · Dec 11, 2016

4everchan said:
well... is it tara who says : no no... i kinda like it.. she's feeling pretty johnny... or something like that...

I don't get the hate for that program. it is a very nice program. one of the least annoying puccini's i've seen in a long time.

Have to agree. Johnny wasn't snarky at all. He said at the top that the character in the FS was more of a reach for her....

And the comments quoted earlier at the end of her skate were prefaced by his saying that he felt this role was more put on compared to the SP, and that she would do better with something more organic for her.

So the comments were about his aesthetic preference for a more natural vs a less theatric way to convey character and what he thinks works better for her.

And he in no way contradicted his tweet that in his view she has the best SP. But asthetically, and in terms of her current level of conditioning and ability to have backup plans, he feels she has a ways to go to be at the same level in her FS. Nothing much different than many of us have said.

But given her rate of progress this season, let's see where that FS is at in February and then we'll be able to better predict what it will look like at Worlds...

Violet Bliss · Dec 11, 2016

sabinfire said:
Did anyone hear what Johnny Weir said about Kaetlyn on NBCSN's coverage tonight? He said, "This felt fake to me, a lot of 'touch my face and feel good about myself' moments."

indeed coming from Johnny and aiming at Kaetlyn, considering how often such "moments" have filled programs by Johnny and some Worlds and Olympics medalists Men. Kaetlyn is definitely far from first in my mind upon hearing such description.

amc987 · Dec 11, 2016

Osmond4gold said:
Wow,...as a start and an end, how about an Olympic Silver Medal which Med, nor Wagner or Gold have on their competitive resume. BTW, disrespect people much? I am sure your parents are ...proud.

As Kathy Bates would say,...TAWANDA!!!

I don't see how pointing out facts is disrespectful. Osmond won that medal fair and square. But it's a team medal so it's hard to make that the highlight of her individual career. And, she placed 5th in both segments of the competition, so it's not like she was the Lipnitskaya of her team. Then Kaetlyn placed 13th in the singles competition.

I don't have anything against Osmond personally. She's a 21 year-old elite athlete who has improved a lot. But this is her 3rd grand prix competition this season and I'm already tired of people hero worshipping her and the inflated scores she's received. It all strikes me as very premature and unsubstantiated by results.

And yeah, my parents are proud. Hope yours are as well.

Osmond4gold · Dec 11, 2016

amc987 said:
I don't see how pointing out facts is disrespectful. Osmond won that medal fair and square. But it's a team medal so it's hard to make that the highlight of her individual career. And, she placed 5th in both segments of the competition, so it's not like she was the Lipnitskaya of her team. Then Kaetlyn placed 13th in the singles competition.

I don't have anything against Osmond personally. She's a 21 year-old elite athlete who has improved a lot. But this is her 3rd grand prix competition this season and I'm already tired of people hero worshipping her and the inflated scores she's received. It all strikes me as very premature and unsubstantiated by results.

And yeah, my parents are proud. Hope yours are as well.

Well, after your lack of respect shown towards an Olympic medalists, desecrating accomplishments and dismissing other posters here this evening, if you were mine I would say, you're never too old for Time-Out!

OniBan · Dec 11, 2016

TGee said:
INJURY ......while Kaetlyn had, as many skaters do some significant injuries that cause setbacks, the leg break was of a different order....

We are aware of so many skating related injuries, and I don't mean to in any way diminish them. But somehow they raise questions about training, conditioning and whether the skater and coach have pushed too far too fast....

Kaetlyn's injury that had her off the ice for essentially a season was the result of a hideous collision. While unlike some other collisions that happened in view of the video audience, it happened during training, not a warm up at a major event, and it was her leg that was nearly destroyed. But no less physically or psychologically traumatic. Since unlike some others, I don't think that Kaetlyn had her own injury and recovery thread on GS, perhaps a bit more info would be welcome here...

https://www.instagram.com/p/tD1jo5y1tM/?taken-by=kaetkiss&hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/tkzjHaS1iy/?taken-by=kaetkiss&hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/uihj0Vy1iS/?taken-by=kaetkiss&hl=en

Many of us in Canada have quietly wondered about how the ice was being managed that day. Reports of the event are clear that Kaetlyn had the music and was in the middle of a run through. A novice skater skated into Kaetlyn and it was Kaetlyn who was injured. While novice skaters can and do share the ice with seniors in many clubs, knowing who has the music especially a more advanced skater moving at speed, is a basic requirement to be there.

So, we've all been very impressed by not only her physical recovery but her psychological resilience.

Really do wish folks would really consider the context when they choose like "consistency" and "injury" in her case.

Thanks for the info. I feel like your last comment is a passive aggressive jab at me for seemingly making light of her injury/ries and its correlation to her consistency. I don't appreciate that, because I'm not insinuating anything. In fact I was one of those who felt really bad when her leg was broken, because seeing her performance at Worlds and Sochi Olympics, I really felt that she had an upward trajectory in terms of growth as a skater. And then the accident happened.

I still maintain that if she can keep down the mistakes (esp in her LP) and be consistent in delivering clean programs, she has the potential to be the best. She is an all rounded skater.
If i can compare her to the American ladies, I personally think she has better jumps than Ashley, better performance quality than Gracie. If she can be consistent like Satoko or Medvedeva, I think she can really be up there.

ice coverage · Dec 12, 2016

TGee said:
... Since unlike some others, I don't think that Kaetlyn had her own injury and recovery thread on GS ....

For the record, GS did have at least two threads about Kaetlyn's injury and recovery.

- http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?51918-Kaetlyn-Osmond-injured-undergoes-surgery
- http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?53694-Kaetlyn-Osmond-out-for-the-rest-of-the-season

I don't remember off the top of my head whether there were additional Kaetlyn-specific threads besides these.

(Updates about Kaetlyn also were posted throughout the Injuries and Ills thread for 2014-15.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?52081-Injuries-and-Ills-2014-15)

sabinfire said:
Did anyone hear what Johnny Weir said about Kaetlyn on NBCSN's coverage tonight? ...

sabinfire said:
https://youtu.be/km_b64mi5h0 It's at the end.

Thanks for the NBCSN videos, sabinfire :bow:

.

And BTW, if anyone else wants to listen for yourself to the audio of Ryan's comments (as described in the OP), here is the link to sabinfire's video of Universal HD, including the warm-up:

https://youtu.be/KrwP1D8EgOo

auser · Dec 12, 2016

ice coverage said:
For the record, GS did have at least two threads about Kaetlyn's injury and recovery.

- http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?51918-Kaetlyn-Osmond-injured-undergoes-surgery
- http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?53694-Kaetlyn-Osmond-out-for-the-rest-of-the-season

I don't remember off the top of my head whether there were additional Kaetlyn-specific threads besides these.

(Updates about Kaetlyn also were posted throughout the Injuries and Ills thread for 2014-15.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?52081-Injuries-and-Ills-2014-15)

Thanks for the NBCSN videos, sabinfire .

And BTW, if anyone else wants to listen for yourself to the audio of Ryan's comments (as described in the OP), here is the link to sabinfire's video of Universal HD, including the warm-up:
https://youtu.be/KrwP1D8EgOo

Thank you so much ice coverage and sabinfire :yahoo:

.

NaVi · Dec 12, 2016

I had previously complemented Osmond for getting her lutz edge better than last year... but at the GPF I think both her Lutzes in her short program and long program should have been marked. I would have given the SP lutz an ! and the LP lutz an e. They were also lenient with Pogorilaya who only received a ! instead of the usual e on her flip... but she only does it once. Satoko also has edge issues sometimes with her flip and after she was finally called on it at Skate Canada she switched to the loop and Osmond(who often has issues with her Loop) should be prodded to do the same. Edge calling can be a bit of a crap shoot, but I feel it's a bit unfair to let people with unsure edges get away with it in the SP when there's a decent replacement in the loop.

4everchan · Dec 12, 2016

^^ but as you said, Kaetlyn is working on her lutz and her edge is becoming clearer, while the loop is for her, the most unstable jump... it makes sense for other skaters like Pogo, Med or Satoko who have good loops but Kaetlyn's option is to try her best and get her lutz clean. Sometimes, she get a ! sometimes she doesn't.. it is less and less frequent for her to get an e ( ithink she got one at COC)

what's the deduction for an e call on a lutz?

considering the loop is 5.1 in BV and she isn't comfortable with it, it may be a numbers game at this point.

NaVi · Dec 12, 2016

When people with unsure edges do those jumps in the SP it adds A LOT more uncertainty in the already uncertain judging system and gives much more power to the tech panel. I didn't like Satoko doing 3F in the SP, I don't like Gold's SP 3F, and I don't like Osmond's SP 3Lz. Why shouldn't Medvedeva and Radionova start doing SP 3Lz and 3F respectively? Their 3Lz and 3F are no worse than Gold's and Osmond's. If they did start doing it it would give honest tech panelists a headache and biased tech panelists more room to massage whatever results they want. I don't think edge calling is reliable enough in figure skating and want it's impact minimized which is why I don't want people with unsure edges doing them in the SP.

Osmond hasn't received any calls whatsoever on her Lutzes this year when last year every lutz that she didn't fall on or popped received a mark. I haven't been able to tell myself which is why I complemented her on improving it. She didn't receive any call at Cup of China and I didn't watch it. Here's an interesting camera angle for her SP 3Lz which looks inside edge to me and should receive at least an ! (though I don't know what angle the tech panel is working from).

https://youtu.be/hGtaXotCohI?t=4m30s

4everchan · Dec 12, 2016

well...

let's start with my mistake... yup.. she didn't get an edge call.. a double carrot on the flawed lutz... my memory failed me.

I understand what you are saying but to me, there's a flaw in your approach : what the skater and her team are working on and hoping to receive. I don't think that Kaeltyn is playing with fire here.. I think she honestly and genuinely believes that she will be clear... or at worse, get a !

Yes, I was asking about difference in base value so I perhaps wasn't clear... but IMHO I think that perhaps for some, it is a factor, and for others, not. I think that clearly, Medvedeva doesn't care too much doing a loop if she can backload it, with the advantage she already has. Why take a risk??? That's what I was after... Gracie is having major issues with her flip, which now, probably is on top of technical mental... She popped it in Zagreb in the LP.

But honestly, I think that Kaetlyn is really improving technically, and that' not just the lutz. So, I would give think that she is not cheating the system at all but overcoming technical flaws can take a while and bad habits can resurface... However, as we know, a skater can have a jump clean in practice and not in competition... so that's that too...

Finally, one of the tech caller from NHK wrote on one of the competition thread. The angle we get on TV is NOT the same they get to make their calls... they also don't have the leisure to replay ad nauseam the slow motions like we do.... so he explains that, they try not to penalize the skater when it's not clear. I think that's a great attitude.

anyways, i will stop here as i am sure there are plenty of threads talking about edge calls in the forum and that one is focusing on something else. Hope you don't mind getting back to the original topic.

NaVi said:
When people with unsure edges do those jumps in the SP it adds A LOT more uncertainty in the already uncertain judging system and gives much more power to the tech panel. I didn't like Satoko doing 3F in the SP, I don't like Gold's SP 3F, and I don't like Osmond's SP 3Lz. Why shouldn't Medvedeva and Radionova start doing SP 3Lz and 3F respectively? Their 3Lz and 3F are no worse than Gold's and Osmond's. If they did start doing it it would give honest tech panelists a headache and biased tech panelists more room to massage whatever results they want. I don't think edge calling is reliable enough in figure skating and want it's impact minimized which is why I don't want people with unsure edges doing them in the SP.

Osmond hasn't received any calls whatsoever on her Lutzes this year when last year every lutz that she didn't fall on or popped received a mark. I haven't been able to tell myself which is why I complemented her on improving it. She didn't receive any call at Cup of China and I didn't watch it. Here's an interesting camera angle for her SP 3Lz which looks inside edge to me and should receive at least an ! (though I don't know what angle the tech panel is working from).

https://youtu.be/hGtaXotCohI?t=4m30s

Ares · Dec 12, 2016

NaVi said:
I had previously complemented Osmond for getting her lutz edge better than last year... but at the GPF I think both her Lutzes in her short program and long program should have been marked. I would have given the SP lutz an ! and the LP lutz an e. They were also lenient with Pogorilaya who only received a ! instead of the usual e on her flip... but she only does it once. Satoko also has edge issues sometimes with her flip and after she was finally called on it at Skate Canada she switched to the loop and Osmond(who often has issues with her Loop) should be prodded to do the same. Edge calling can be a bit of a crap shoot, but I feel it's a bit unfair to let people with unsure edges get away with it in the SP when there's a decent replacement in the loop.

I like that she's going for Lutz + Flip content in SP. She's the only top lady (ok ... bar Sotskova) going for it right now and it gives her benefit of additional BV over the rest of the field.

That having said I think that ! call should be there at least for otherwise beautiful lutzes

We don't know what camera angle is used by tech panel in that case, so maybe that was impossible to make sure if they made review (did they?). Either way Kaetlyn is steadily improving her technique. I don't get the aversion or even hate (?!) that some have towards her LP. It is pretty good & polished even if it's not my taste, not fabulous and less interesting than SP but still pleasant. It's at least not tacky / borderline offensive like LP of the winner.

Ryan Bradley on Kaetlyn Osmond

amc987

TGee

sabinfire

Doing the needful

Interspectator

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

sabinfire

Doing the needful

4everchan

Osmond4gold

TGee

Violet Bliss

amc987

Osmond4gold

OniBan

ice coverage

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auser

NaVi

4everchan

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