2017 CS US International Classic Mens FS

4everchan · Sep 16, 2017

Mrs. P said:
Oh you mean overall spots. Okay, I get it now. I was talking about what TontoK was pushing -- that USFS gives up a host spot it would give to a US man (each host country can give 3 spots to their own) to another country.

That's far different than opting not to refill a spot after someone WDs (which was the scenario it K. Osmond was in a few years back. I don't know of any situation where a country, in the initial selection process, to not fill of their 12 entries.

To keep it on topic, Liam Firus isn't too far down the SB list. He still has a shot at getting one if someone WDs...

hehe

which now we have gone full circle as I am pretty sure nobody will give a spot to Liam as
1) they will fill it with a host nation skater
or
2) they will simply not fill the spot

but yeah.. i think that was just a mishap in our convo

i went ahead and backwards at the same time

and you are correct : for Japan it was Kaetlyn who never got an invite despite a skater having WD long enough before... she was too much of a thread to get to GPF after having (won??? ) done well at SCI.... and last year, Kevin was in a similar situation and didn't get a spot either.

4everchan · Sep 16, 2017

Violet Bliss said:
Many Canadians regarded Worlds 2016 as very important as it would determine the number of spots for 2017 which would in turn decide for the Olympic entries.

Canada got used to 3 spots at Worlds and the Olympics because Patrick could usually cinch them single handedly. But things have changed since his sabbatical and the importance of the second Men has increased. As well, the the field in Canada has deepened, making the competition for the second Men more intense and unpredictable. Liam has just staked his candidacy as serious.

yup... we wanted the 3 spots for 2017... so it would be easier as the top 2 men count to qualify 3 spots.... I don't understand why this is a debate because this is something many American fans understand very well : you get 3 skaters, top two will add up to decide how many men are sent to worlds/olympics the following year... so there is a bit less pressure on man #2... it served very well the Americans over the year as one of the skaters could do a bit less well but they will retain their 3 spots.... that's why I am puzzled when we talk about the importance of sending 3 men to 2017 worlds to get 3 men at the olympic games and people seem to don't understand it...

back to topic here : it will be interesting to see who goes to worlds 2018 for Canada... for instance, if Liam doesn't go to the olympics, he could be on the worlds' team... and try to qualify canada for spots for others as he will retire... funny how this works....

ice coverage · Sep 16, 2017

4everchan said:
I have tried to explain that many times, including in 2016 when this happened... but don't bother... nobody wants to hear the truth... ...

I for one would love to hear the truth behind what happened in 2016 with Liam and Worlds.
But the truth is not known to any of us -- as you have acknowledged many times.

What I meant of course is that 2016 Worlds results would not directly determine the number of Olympic spots.
The U.S. (and any other country, I assume) would love to earn three spots every year ... and yes, there always would be an indirect benefit for the year after next.
But I do not buy that the indirect effect of 2016 on 2018 was the primary reason for the decision-maker(s) in 2016.
The primary reason was the direct effect of 2016 on 2017 itself, IMO.

TontoK · Sep 16, 2017

Regarding the three spot discussion:

We talk about depth within a country, but we should consider depth world wide, too. There are many federations capable of landing men in the top 10 now.

Quality aside, It is statistically difficult for a federation to earn three spots. Last year, USA sent a pretty dang good men's team, and BARELY made it.

If one skater from a higher-level federation slips up even slightly (or another federation "overperforms"), the "spot scenario" can become precarious quickly.

In the event of a major unexpected mishap, even two spots aren't guaranteed... for example US Pairs right now and Canadian women in the not-so-distant past.

Violet Bliss · Sep 16, 2017

TontoK said:
Regarding the three spot discussion:

We talk about depth within a country, but we should consider depth world wide, too. There are many federations capable of landing men in the top 10 now.

Quality aside, It is statistically difficult for a federation to earn three spots. Last year, USA sent a pretty dang good men's team, and BARELY made it.

If one skater from a higher-level federation slips up even slightly (or another federation "overperforms"), the "spot scenario" can become precarious quickly.

In the event of a major unexpected mishap, even two spots aren't guaranteed... for example US Pairs right now and Canadian women in the not-so-distant past.

True.

The way the entries have been awarded favors countries with an ultra strong skater like Canada, Spain, and Kazakhstan for Mens in the last quadrennial, vs a deep field without a top tier skater, like the US in Men and Ladies pre Chen. Weaker skaters from the former get to compete at Worlds and the Olympics. Sometimes a spot even gets wasted with no qualified skater for the second or third spot. Skaters from the latter fight it out in bloodbaths at the Nationals which exhausts them and also lessens the focus on Worlds in their preparation.

Currently a deep field below Chan means a bloodbath at the Canadian Nationals for the second spot in Mens. Having 3 entries would have made the selection much easier. Canada's depth in other disciplines is almost perfect as far as those spots are concerned.

TontoK · Sep 16, 2017

Violet Bliss said:
True.

The way the entries have been awarded favors countries with an ultra strong skater like Canada, Spain, and Kazakhstan for Mens in the last quadrennial, vs a deep field without a top tier skater, like the US in Men and Ladies pre Chen. Weaker skaters from the former get to compete at Worlds and the Olympics. Sometimes a spot even gets wasted with no qualified skater for the second or third spot. Skaters from the latter fight it out in bloodbaths at the Nationals which exhausts them and also lessens the focus on Worlds in their preparation.

Currently a deep field below Chan means a bloodbath at the Canadian Nationals for the second spot in Mens. Having 3 entries would have made the selection much easier. Canada's depth in other disciplines is almost perfect as far as those spots are concerned.

You know, I hadn't really thought of that.

I've considered the tension for the third US spot... based on technical arsenals alone, I've pegged Nathan and Vincent as "probables" for the Olympics... and, yeah, I know a lot can happen between now and then... I'm just projecting based on what we already know and what we've seen... and a wide open field for the third spot.

But, the situation in Canada is going to be CRAZY as a very good group of skaters fight for that second spot... and, yes, I'm projecting that Patrick is safe for sure... same caveats apply as above.

I think the Canadian fight is going to be more bonkers than the US fight. Your phrase "bloodbath" is apt.

badknees · Sep 16, 2017

TontoK said:
OH I am so pleased for Max! That was great!

Sure, some things to clean up, but that's the best he's skated in a while. I am so proud of him.

Where's Karne? She'll be over the moon when she sees this.

Agreed. However; his choreography still has some basic problems. When the music builds and/or calls for an obvious piece of choreography, but is ignored and skated right through to set up a jump, to me this shows a lack of feeling and understanding of the music. It makes it look truly like the programs are all the same technically from year to year, just put over different music. While this is actually true, the choreography and artistry of the skater can cover this fact up. And the ending cut of music and choreography needs to be changed. Sorry but only the greatest of artistic skaters could pull of the ending music that Max has. Kwan and maybe Ashley.

ramurphy2005 · Sep 16, 2017

badknees said:
Agreed. However; his choreography still has some basic problems. When the music builds and/or calls for an obvious piece of choreography, but is ignored and skated right through to set up a jump, to me this shows a lack of feeling and understanding of the music. It makes it look truly like the programs are all the same technically from year to year, just put over different music. While this is actually true, the choreography and artistry of the skater can cover this fact up. And the ending cut of music and choreography needs to be changed. Sorry but only the greatest of artistic skaters could pull of the ending music that Max has. Kwan and maybe Ashley.

You've put into words exactly what I felt after watching Max's FS. It's never made sense to me why skaters would end a Phantom program with a section of Masquerade where the music just kind of ends without any real definition to it. I didn't like it when Patrick Chan's Phantom program did it, and I still don't like it now.

asiacheetah · Sep 17, 2017

I just watched Nathan's programs. So far I like the music choices and choreographic choices. As with last year, I like the SP a lot more than the LP. However, the LP has more promise, but with more quads added, that might water down the choreography more. I was actually surprised he only did 2 Quads and looked really slow and tired in the second half. I'm sure with more practice and stamina building this LP might be dynamic.

Jaana · Sep 17, 2017

For the first time ever I felt that Aaron had exactly the right music for him and I really liked this freeskate program. Good choreography, too.

Arriba627 · Sep 21, 2017

MaiKatze said:
Watched Nathan's FS. Am stunned. This is a great, great vehicle for him. Talk about finding a signature program, and here it is. I have watched the movie it is based on, and while I think some themes are problematic, the soundtrack is not one of them. I hope Nathan will change costume though. There are quite a few possibilities! I think with two programs as good as this and the phenomenal tech he will be the man to beat this season. I sense a power shift coming.

His programs are pretty impressive. Apparently after the competition, he did say that neither of these costumes ( SP/FS) is the real deal.

karne · Sep 21, 2017

Jaana said:
For the first time ever I felt that Aaron had exactly the right music for him and I really liked this freeskate program. Good choreography, too.

It's wonderful, isn't it? *beams*

Tallorder · Nov 7, 2017

Max's skate at this event. A harbinger for the season.

2017 CS US International Classic Mens FS

4everchan

4everchan

ice coverage

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TontoK

Hot Tonto

Violet Bliss

TontoK

Hot Tonto

badknees

ramurphy2005

Unabashed Mainer

asiacheetah

Jaana

Arriba627

TWO-TIME WORLD CHAMPION 🔥

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Tallorder

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