2018 Olympic Season: Men's Figure Skating

MaiKatze · Oct 2, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Well, he could go for the quad lutz (even with an e) simply to troll his critics, and rack up more points.

I think Shoma's playing it smart with the lutz. He knows that the judges are not quite certain about the edge. An easier triple with solid GOE is less risky than a lutz that could be called depending on the tech specialist. Although he should replace the 3S with a 3L for a little higher BV.

Nah, he should just leave the Lutz out completely. It's not worth it. I believe he can make up the difference in PCS points he will get, if he continues to skate cleanish programs at that level consistently. The judges always give you higher scores each time you skate clean. So perhaps that's the strategy (Only I don't really believe it is...I think the Lutz will be back and with that....the Shoma Uno Flutz Threads of Doom)

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 2, 2017

Li'Kitsu said:
What has that to do with what I wrote though?

And it is amazing that all of a sudden you disagree with judges. Normally you do nothing but point the finger at people who question judges scores, and preach how the protocols can never be wrong. How could anyone for example question an edge call on Yuzus flip? But alas, the teddy bear can state for ~a fact~ that Yuzus PCS must have been overscored. Eh, noted.

I don't get where you're getting the impression that I never question protocols or PCS scores, when I'm incredibly vocal about bad PCS scoring and judging. And I'm not even nationalistic about it too (I said that Osmond was overscored and Mai underscored at ACI, for example).

Also, it's obviously my opinion that Yuzu's PCS was overscored... but, gurl please, if Yuzu's most ardent fans are admitting that he was overscored - by 7 points on PCS at that - I think we're veering into fact territory. I mean, Yatagarasu gave Yuzu even less PCS than I thought he deserved.

And regarding the edge call on the flip, BOP himself posted a screencap and stated that it was on a flat edge, and I agree with said screencap. And a flat edge means an unclear edge (neither outside nor inside), and since a flip is to be executed on an inside edge, then a ! call makes sense.

Li'Kitsu said:
(PS: for the record - would I personally not award 89 PCS for that performance? You bet. Do I still think this post looks hypocritical compared to what you usually post? You bet.)

Do you mean you personally would not award more PCS or not award less PCS for that performance? Some clarification needed... :laugh:

Ender · Oct 2, 2017

In the end... we don’t know the future and who will skate cleanest and most beautifully at the Olympics will win. If it’s a splat fest as it might be then I am okay with it. Popcorn passing around because we will have new scoring system anyway. Lol

But per my experience, those who mess today might do very well tomorrow.

Still remember all the head cases and inconsistent skaters who suddenly turned out doing well at the Olympic.

Li'Kitsu · Oct 2, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
I don't get where you're getting the impression that I never question protocols or PCS scores, when I'm incredibly vocal about bad PCS scoring and judging.

Oh, I'm sorry I missed that. I just went by how often you "call others out" as haters and ubers for questioning scores, so I kind of thought you wouldn't do so much of that yourself. But I guess I was wrong there. Or it's just that you're the one who decides what bad judging is. I'll try to figure that out next.

Do you mean you personally would not award more PCS or not award less PCS for that performance? Some clarification needed...

Duh, obviously I would have given him at least 97+ in PCS. Those weren't pops, those were inventive, creative new transitions that went beautifully with the music. Obviosuly.

And I guess some people will think that is me being serious as well...?

Ice Dance · Oct 2, 2017

What we have--in Nathan, Shoma, Yuzuru, & Boyang--are four men who do not quit & do not know what the others are planning to do and do not want to go into the Olympics without the highest base value.

They're working on bringing everything they've got because they might need it.

No idea if Yuzuru meant to try for the quad lutz at the Autumn Classic. But it is quite common for guys practicing a new quad to start to have timing issues with the triple. So he well might have popped it either way.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 2, 2017

Li'Kitsu said:
Duh, obviously I would have given him at least 97+ in PCS. Those weren't pops, those were inventive, creative new transitions that went beautifully with the music. Obviosuly.[/SIZE]

Only 97, eh? That's a lot stricter than I expected! :eek:

(Although, you did say at least...

)

Well, regardless.. I look forward to seeing how these guys are assessed when they square off against each other in later competitions throughout the season. And then nobody can say that it was due to the location or the judging panel.

But the awful judging needs to stop... if judges are going to give 9.5's for programs with 5 or 6 major errors, they need to be kept faaaaaar away from any international competition. :disapp:

Amako-san can still judge at Japanese Nationals though -- although somebody might want to inform him that PCS is capped at 10.00. :laugh:

Neenah16 · Oct 2, 2017

Since it is Boyang's birthday tomorrow (or today depending on where you live), shall we give the kid some love and remember his existence (and beautiful 4Lz)

Any one knows what his layout might be? Any new quads? What do you think his chances are for the olympics?

4everchan · Oct 2, 2017

Happy boyangman day!!!!!!!

Yatagarasu · Oct 2, 2017

Neenah16 said:
Since it is Boyang's birthday tomorrow (or today depending on where you live), shall we give the kid some love and remember his existence (and beautiful 4Lz)
Any one knows what his layout might be? Any new quads? What do you think his chances are for the olympics?

I don't mind in some ways when people forget Boyang and then he pops up on the podium like he did in Helsinki to remind them :biggrin:

His SP
His FS

Not a good showing for the FS but should give you an idea. He's going for a 2+5 as well.

asiacheetah · Oct 3, 2017

4everchan said:
fair enough I don't follow Yuzu as much as you guys

well you missed a 3a combo but i understand what you mean...

so if he goes for 4 quads, the only way to gain back some BV would be IMHO to backload a bit more, and that's why I thought that the 3lutz at front was not only achieving the duty of place holder but also as a way to get the second half of the program tested and run, as it is worth more points that way...

oh well... we will see soon enough what he wants to do

Yuzuru's pre-ACI announced layout was actually 4lo, 4s, 3f // 4s3t, 4t1lo3s, 4t, 3a2t(?), 3lz. His ACI intended layout per Brian Orser in interviews was supposed to be 4lz, 4lo, 3f // 4s3t, 4t1lo3s, 4t, 3a2t(?), 3a. With injury, he was supposed to do 3lz and 3lo as his first two jumping pass and the same 3 quad layout in the second half.

Didn't quite work out as intended.

asiacheetah · Oct 3, 2017

Question, is Patrick skating at a challenger series competition? I know Shoma, Javi, Nathan, Yuzu already did theirs and Jin is skating next.

Also, do you think the top 6 this Olympic cycle is going to be the same as last year's resulting top 6? Anyone you think might have a chance of cracking into the top?

4everchan · Oct 3, 2017

asiacheetah said:
Yuzuru's pre-ACI announced layout was actually 4lo, 4s, 3f // 4s3t, 4t1lo3s, 4t, 3a2t(?), 3lz. His ACI intended layout per Brian Orser in interviews was supposed to be 4lz, 4lo, 3f // 4s3t, 4t1lo3s, 4t, 3a2t(?), 3a. With injury, he was supposed to do 3lz and 3lo as his first two jumping pass and the same 3 quad layout in the second half.

Didn't quite work out as intended.

I was aware he was doing 3lz 3loop 3flip to save his knee... I think some of you misread what I wrote. I wrote that 4lutz coming later or not, starting with the lower point jumps is another way to raise base value IF EVER the 4lutz never comes... so well.. what can i say? you guys know for sure that the 4lutz is coming and know for sure that if it doesn't come he will use the 4loop first layout...

hence my comment about crystal balls... :scard7:

asiacheetah said:
Question, is Patrick skating at a challenger series competition? I know Shoma, Javi, Nathan, Yuzu already did theirs and Jin is skating next.

Also, do you think the top 6 this Olympic cycle is going to be the same as last year's resulting top 6? Anyone you think might have a chance of cracking into the top?

Patrick was supposed to be at Nebelhorn last week but withdrew. He is healthy and was seen all week skating in Vancouver (instagram of young skaters skating with him) . "official news" per lynn rutherford : he his breaking in new boots.

I think the final flight will be very similar if not identical. I think Kolyada could be knocking on the door of the final flight...

yude · Oct 3, 2017

rabbit1234 said:
However, it makes it very difficult for him to align SP and FP to clean.

Sounds like your wish

Thank you for your all data but in short, you want to say that you think Shoma and Nathan are better skaters than Yuzuru and you root for him(them) and wish for him(them) medals, and there is nothing wrong with it since everyone has their opinions and favorite skaters.

About Yuzuru's layout of LP, I'm trying not to forget about his right knee. I don't think he will do two triple jumps at the beginning anymore because he didn't like it, but there is still possibility of doing 4Lo as first jump IMO. Whatever he and his team chooses, I root for him because he is my favorite skater and the best skater to me

MaiKatze · Oct 3, 2017

Happy Birthday Boyang! Wishing you all the best for the upcoming season.

4everchan said:
I also believe that 2015 is far far away in a judged sport... and that ANYONE from the top 6 doing two clean skates will be on the podium because that's just the thing.... how many people had two clean skates last year at worlds.. nobody from the final flight.... it's getting harder and harder to achieve these things. 2015 NHK (to me that was the best Hanyu... not GPF) is no longer relevant.... it's like Patrick's 2013 Bompart just didn't count anymore when Sochi happened...

All I wish for is an exciting and relatively clean competition. I think the field is deep and many can aspire to the podium... some have better assets than others, that's fine.

Hard to fathom that these record breaking scores are two years old soon. I also agree that NHK was better than GPF but the scores at GPF were higher, which proves that the judges start to award points when a skater repeats a feat like that. It really seemed like Yuzuru was invincible back then. But like you said, it's two years in the past and things have changed, new players have joined the game and Yuzuru wasn't as dominant as people expected, after that (whatever the reasons, let's not get into the injury argument). That exactly these two programs are used in the Olympic Season, is obviously with the intention of repeating these performances of the past. If it will work like a charm remains to be seen.

nekun · Oct 3, 2017

the new Q&A from BOrser after ACI
https://wherespacepooh.tumblr.com/post/166007226014/brian-orser-interview-post-aci-2017109-aera

now we know why Yuzu meltdown in the FS, it's becouse there were not anough quads *side eyeing Yuzu so hard*

sydney · Oct 3, 2017

nekun said:
the new Q&A from BOrser after ACI
https://wherespacepooh.tumblr.com/post/166007226014/brian-orser-interview-post-aci-2017109-aera

now we now why Yuzu meltdown in the FS, it's becouse there were not anough quads *side eyeing Yuzu so hard*

*side eyeing yuzu with you for more power*

rabbit1234 · Oct 3, 2017

I think that he was conscious of the score of shoma. He was the best in the world at the SP and was an opportunity to get a high score. To him as well 319 it is difficult not to implement SP and FP close to clean. This season is the Olympic season, Japanese media will introduce the best season score for each competitor, due to the Japanese representative battle. There are only three games until the representative decision. So he thinks he wondered how to make tripleloop quadloop after failing lutz. I think he made a lot of mistakes while thinking about various countermeasures.

In this way, various thoughts influence acting in the athlete. Figure skating is also a mental game.

Ender · Oct 3, 2017

rabbit1234 said:
I think that he was conscious of the score of shoma. He was the best in the world at the SP and was an opportunity to get a high score. To him as well 319 it is difficult not to implement SP and FP close to clean. This season is the Olympic season, Japanese media will introduce the best season score for each competitor, due to the Japanese representative battle. There are only three games until the representative decision. So he thinks he wondered how to make tripleloop quadloop after failing lutz. I think he made a lot of mistakes while thinking about various countermeasures.

In this way, various thoughts influence acting in the athlete. Figure skating is also a mental game.

Unless you’re walking in people’s heard, you will never know what they think.

Mental game at the Olympics is not to fail at the Olympic during 2,5 and 4,5 minutes. Many men fail at the Olympic anyway. Not to flap some good scores before the Olympic. Mao Asada did everything she could for Sochi, the media did everything they could for her, and still failed. Need some reminders of Michelle Kwan and her Olympic results?

All the talks now are cheap. All the numbers and speculations about success rate etc are cheap too. Olympic is a different beast. Sometimes it’s pure luck and there is nothing to be predicted.

Simple as we can not tell the future. People might burn out too soon if they’re forcing themselves to skate at the extreme level right now. 4 months to go. I think ones with experiences will prevail. But again, who am I to judge.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 3, 2017

Yatagarasu said:
But I say, why burst their bubble in the end. Sooner or later, they'll meet the ground.

Truer words were never spoken. :biggrin:

kiches · Oct 3, 2017

On a slightly different topic, we as fans are so lucky to have such a diverse field of men skating at such a high level, and I think it's helped the popularity of the sport overall and I'm sure it's helped to pump money into the sport.

I check Cosport every once in a while to see if they release more tickets for men's events for the Olympics and it's been slim pickings. This morning I checked and they released a bunch of tickets for all events except Men's SP and FS. Also going through the attempt to get tickets on the Korean website through a friend in Korea for the men's event was entirely futile, I was even able to add a ladies' SP category A seat without issue on the Korean site. I was also unsuccessful in trying for any men's event tickets for the GPF (although I was able to add one for the day of the ladies' FS at the last minute). For the Olympics I think the men's event is clearly the hottest ticket (although I do think a large part of it is the Hanyu effect, the guy helps sell out Challenger events in 30 min) so far and I hope they all deliver their best. It'll be interesting to see how the season shapes up as we get further into the grand prix and layouts and conditioning change or improve, so I'm not putting a ton of stock into how the men do early in the season, but many of them look to be in good shape so far.

2018 Olympic Season: Men's Figure Skating

MaiKatze

CanadianSkaterGuy

Ender

Match Penalty

Li'Kitsu

Ice Dance

CanadianSkaterGuy

Neenah16

4everchan

Yatagarasu

asiacheetah

asiacheetah

4everchan

yude

MaiKatze

nekun

sydney

rabbit1234

Ender

Match Penalty

CanadianSkaterGuy

kiches

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