There is a HUGE difference between "someone is tactful, smart, pretty (or whatever)" and "xy can't stand having the most tactful, most smartest, most prettiest (or whatever)" next to her!
Good to know you actually can recognize the difference.
2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
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Good to know you actually can recognize the difference.
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I just replied to TallyT and you can have it also as an answer to you.
and yes, there are a lot of flies on many tables
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Of course not! However, people seem to like bashing skaters that have a competitive decline once they leave TT, so it would be interesting to see how fans would react if the skaters that left did continue to perform as well as they did with TT.
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Changing coach a few days before junior test skates would be a choice, but I'm ready to believe anything.
I wonder why there have been no more program announcements after Liza, Evgenia and Aliona. Are they all keeping the old ones? Or maybe they'll be prepared later in the season.
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It would be much more important that the author of such allegations recognized the difference!
Sorry, but I can hardly discuss vague claims like this. Like, "which people seem to like bashing skaters", here on generally everywhere? "Competitive decline" - before they left or after they left? Also, is this an assumption, rhetoric question, wish, warning? I don't even know where to start
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It's inevitable to compare the skaters' performance or results before and after they change coaches. This happens after any coaching change, not just skaters who leave Eteri.
If the skaters' have good results and programs with Plushenko, I don't see why they would be bashed. Altough Plush is definitely inflating the expectations too much with his words.
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You still don't understand the first commandment, that Eteri is The Eternal Evil and everything else just follows from that
Who said this here on Goldenskate? Can you point to the post and quote it? Because of course you would agree it is impossible to argue against a generality or "people out there" arguments.
That is what you said, isn't it?
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Sorry, but I can hardly discuss vague claims like this. Like, "which people seem to like bashing skaters", here on generally everywhere? "Competitive decline" - before they left or after they left? Also, is this an assumption, rhetoric question, wish, warning? I don't even know where to start
Basically, this is my point: when Zhenya left TT and had a bit of a rough start, some people (not necessarily people on the forum, but also those I know in general) were like “look at her now, she’s not performing well, she should’ve stayed with TT.” Now that Sasha and Aliona have left TT, I fear that some people will bash them if they do not place and perform as well as they did last season. I wish the best for them, as I did for Zhenya (and every skater quite frankly). I just think it’ll be interesting to see. If they improve ( Aliona learns quads, Sasha competes 3A and improves artistry) - people may say “it’s great that they left Eteri,” or “wow, Plushenko/Rozanov are amazing coaches! More people should go to them, not just Eteri, for success.” On the flip side, as I said earlier, if they don’t improve and possible decline, people may say, “of course they did decline- Eteri is the best coach, they should’ve stayed with her.”
This isn’t targeting anyone on this forum, just as an fyi. This is regarding people I know in real life that are skating fans like me.
Edit: didn’t mean “real life,” I just mean in my everyday life with those who I interact with in person
Who said this here on Goldenskate? Can you point to the post and quote it? Because of course you would agree it is impossible to argue against a generality or "people out there" arguments.
That is what you said, isn't it?
If someone let's say believes in hell, he doesn't need to quote all mentions in the holy manuscripts to be recognized as acting according to his confession, right?
Basically, this is my point: when Zhenya left TT and had a bit of a rough start, some people (not necessarily people on the forum, but also those I know in general) were like “look at her now, she’s not performing well, she should’ve stayed with TT.” Now that Sasha and Aliona have left TT, I fear that some people will bash them if they do not place and perform as well as they did last season. I wish the best for them, as I did for Zhenya (and every skater quite frankly). I just think it’ll be interesting to see. If they improve ( Aliona learns quads, Sasha competes 3A and improves artistry) - people may say “it’s great that they left Eteri,” or “wow, Plushenko/Rozanov are amazing coaches! More people should go to them, not just Eteri, for success.” On the flip side, as I said earlier, if they don’t improve and possible decline, people may say, “of course they did decline- Eteri is the best coach, they should’ve stayed with her.”
This isn’t targeting anyone on this forum, just as an fyi. This is regarding people I know in real life that are skating fans like me.
Edit: didn’t mean “real life,” I just mean in my everyday life with those who I interact with in person
The current situation is fundamentally different than the case with Medo. It is not just skaters but also the coach from Team Tutberidze. Personally i don't expect any serious noticable change at all. It is just another version of Khrustalny club
So it doesn't really matter for me how they are going to perform
Plyushchenko himself had his chances to show his abilities as a coach and we all know how it all ended
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It's hard to separate the effects from the coaching change from the decline we typically see as these skaters transition from girls to women. Yulia declined after leaving, but she was already struggling the season after the Sochi Olympics. Evgenia's results have also been less impressive, but again we don't know how much she would have struggled had she stayed with Eteri since most skaters have better results at 16 than they do at 19. Overall, I think Alena and Sasha both have better jump technique than Anna, so if Anna ends up being the most successful after these coaching changes then I think there is a good case to make for Eteri's ability to get skaters to the very top... and keep them there.
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First of all, I hope that there will be some kind of a season this year. Second of all, I'll be watching FS just like now - only competitions (+test skate), with possibly few gossip/media coverages, especially now, when Aliona and Sasha are with Plushenko, who is very keen on writing his own media articles laugh. Once they win something, he'll explode with accusations how those girls were treated very badly in the past and how their success is only due to his work (not to mention, that it will be Ryazanov's work..). As I already mentioned, I'll try to distance myself from such trash and concentrate mainly on the skaters. At the end of the day, I still enjoy all of the three girls, no matter the coaching team and I will be happy to see them on the ice again (of course, all other skaters as well! Alina and Zhenya, I'm looking at you )
laugh. Once they win something, he'll explode with accusations how those girls were treated very badly in the past and how their success is only due to his work (not to mention, that it will be Ryazanov's work..). As I already mentioned, I'll try to distance myself from such trash and concentrate mainly on the skaters. At the end of the day, I still enjoy all of the three girls, no matter the coaching team and I will be happy to see them on the ice again (of course, all other skaters as well! Alina and Zhenya, I'm looking at you )Basically, this is my point: when Zhenya left TT and had a bit of a rough start, some people (not necessarily people on the forum, but also those I know in general) were like “look at her now, she’s not performing well, she should’ve stayed with TT.” Now that Sasha and Aliona have left TT, I fear that some people will bash them if they do not place and perform as well as they did last season. I wish the best for them, as I did for Zhenya (and every skater quite frankly). I just think it’ll be interesting to see. If they improve ( Aliona learns quads, Sasha competes 3A and improves artistry) - people may say “it’s great that they left Eteri,” or “wow, Plushenko/Rozanov are amazing coaches! More people should go to them, not just Eteri, for success.” On the flip side, as I said earlier, if they don’t improve and possible decline, people may say, “of course they did decline- Eteri is the best coach, they should’ve stayed with her.”
This isn’t targeting anyone on this forum, just as an fyi. This is regarding people I know in real life that are skating fans like me.
It's hard to reply and not to start just one more battle over the opinion "did Zhenya do well to move" or "is she better now than she was". Like Sasha moved, Aliona moved and the wounds are still fresh and now going back to Zhenya once again? It's the mine field
I will try to reply for myself and my opinion. Starting with Zhenya. Her beginnings with Orser were truly rough and it would make no sense to deny it, that time or now. Then she became world bronze medalist. As for the standings, it was a satisfaction, definitely, not for everyone it was satisfaction in regard of style and skating. There are those who say her skating wasn't as good as she was before and there are those who find her skating more entertaining, artistic etc. It's not a secret that those two camps prefer different things in skating and above all different persons (Eteri/Orser or generally north american style of skating). As for me, my favourite programs of her still remain 2015/16 season FS and 2016/17 season SP. From her new programs I liked Tosca the most, her previous SP I didn't like. I'm indifferent about 2018/19 FS (partially because Tango is not my favourite tune), but I was also more or less indifferent about 2016/17 FS (though in that year's competition it was still one of the best).
But people can argue about those things, focusing on points or artistry, but there is one more thing to consider. Did the transfer fulfilled Zhenya's own expectations? I can guess she truly liked the new environment but let's face it, one of the main motives was truly to stay competitive in the future and I don't think that particularly this goal was completely fulfilled. Of course we don't have an alternative reality at our disposal where she would stay with Eteri and we could compare how her career would look like in that case.
Now as for Aliona and Sasha. Well, whatever people (incl. me, I would not deny it) objected about Znenya's transfer, Orser was and is still one of the icons of figure skating, some consider him the GOAT among the coaches and were pretty outraged it wasn't him who got the FS award.
So there was some guarantee he is competent to train a star like Zhenya. On the other hand, and I know many will disagree now, Plushy, with Rozanov or without, is nobody as a coach. Sounds harsh but if you try to be objective you should admit this to yourself. It's too much to lose with very little in return. Yes, there was a time when Eteri was nobody as a coach, but at that time anyone who would come to FFKKR and said "let's give her two of our most promising hopes for medals at the highest competitions to train", he would be laughed and ridiculed. Something like that wasn't possible till Eteri built her emprire with her bare hands. Plushy has a name as a skater, contacts and money, but nothing of it makes him a coach. His excessively self-confident claims do not help to improve his reputation.From the perspective of coaching, it's like taking the latest clerk and make him a CEO. Maybe he will surprise us, but I think one should first prove himself and only then he should be entrusted to take care about the values, not the other way around. As for the girls, yes, if the results will be unsatisfying, I will say that, I don't see a reason why being correct in such case, because it would just prove it was a very bad decision. If the results will be good, that is a question. Many people will be glad that the chance for medals weren't thrown out of the window. I am quite confident that programs could be good, Nastya's case shows Plushy can at least obtain good choreos, but that's not everything. The other thing is working on techique and maybe even more importantly working with the psychics of the skaters. We know that from this perspective Eteri is able to prepare skaters even in the most difficult situations. How many people expected Alina's meltdown before 2019 Worlds, many people didn't expect Kamila will win JGPF just three weeks in trainings after a serious injury and without quads against Alysa or that even Daria would become so consistent throughout the season that she will become world junior silver medalist. In this regard I have much stronger doubts about Plushy's team than with the technique itself.
So, that's my view, I hope I answered fully, I've written that while watching one old, naive but charming western in a way.
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Man I know she was contractually forced to write this and probably didn't even write it herself but couldn't they keep the bs a bit lower to not sound this fake? As if Trusova is knowledgeable about any Italian brands, leave alone have a favorite leave alone that one haha.
But good for her, Plushenko keeps his promises and does what he's good for.
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If there's truth to the Valieva rumors now that would truly be the moment when I would start to worry if I was Eteri..
Trusova leaving after falling all over the place during the entire season, with nothing holding her up but 4s that seem to be leaving her - meh
Kostornaya leaving 2 months later as the current top senior ladies skater and the only one for whom she has ever gotten praise in terms of skating skills and artistry - now that one must have hurt.
But she still has Shcherbakova and the 3 juniors among which Valieva, who is the one many secretly or openly predict for Gold in 2022, whether that's premature or not.
But if Valieva leaves too, being her and as the 3rd in only 3 months, I'd start to get really angry and a bit nervous if I was Eteri.
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- Feb 19, 2014
It depends on the skater. Some skaters start to struggle - "They just need time".
Other skaters start to struggle - "They are finished."
The coaches get thrown in there to fit whatever the narrative is - "He is re-working the skaters technique."
Or - "She can't coach anything but children. Her techniques don't work long-term."
As a fan, it's hard when your favorite skater is on the receiving end of the - "They are done. It's over. Put them out their misery." narrative.
But 2019 season really helped me to put it into perspective. Alina went from being discussed as the liability that was going to cost Russia 3 spots at the WCs to winning the whole shebang! Anything can happen.
Other skaters start to struggle - "They are finished."
The coaches get thrown in there to fit whatever the narrative is - "He is re-working the skaters technique."
Or - "She can't coach anything but children. Her techniques don't work long-term."
As a fan, it's hard when your favorite skater is on the receiving end of the - "They are done. It's over. Put them out their misery." narrative.
But 2019 season really helped me to put it into perspective. Alina went from being discussed as the liability that was going to cost Russia 3 spots at the WCs to winning the whole shebang! Anything can happen.
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https://matchtv.ru/figure-skating/m...ornoj_Rossii_nachnutsa_v_Novogorske_9_avgusta
No press or TV will be allowed at junior test skates (due to corona). All participants will go through mandatory COVID-19 testing before the test skates.
No press or TV will be allowed at junior test skates (due to corona). All participants will go through mandatory COVID-19 testing before the test skates.
I remember that very well ! (that countries are allowed to substitute in only 2 disciplines) That's exactly my point !
Initially, the plan was to have one ice dance team (Bobrova/Soloviev) and 2 ladies (Lipnitskaya, Sotnikova). That's what everyone was preparing for, including Sotnikova. At that time, Sotnikova was the more experienced skater. I wouldn't exactly call a 4-time Russian national champion "a wild card"... Yes, she wasn't the most consistent skater during that season. But the last 2 competitions proved that Adelina and Yulia were very similar in their abilities. In fact, Adelina received higher PC scores than Yulia at the Europeans ! Also, team Russia held additional test skates behind closed doors etc. For Yulia, this was her first full season in seniors. Experts were equally concerned about her that, considering her young age, she might crash and burn at some point... (which unfortunately proved to be the case).
What happened was - during the last test skates (a week or so before the team event) team Russia came to the conclusion that Bobrova/Soloviev were not strong enough in both of their programs. An idea arose that they could be replaced by Ilinykh/Katsalapov for the FD (the legendary "Swan Lake", for which they eventually won bronze). But that meant that team Russia would need to get rid of one entry. They couldn't remove the substitute for pairs, because pairs was the very first event in individual competition. What they could do was - get rid of one of the girls. There was no formal decision yet which girl would it be, or whether the federation would carry out this plan at all. This is when Tutberidze intervened, complained to the Minister of Sports and asked for Yulia not to be excluded. This is when the Minister asked her – in case they really ended up with only one spot for ladies, would Yulia be able to do both programs.
Controversial stuff regarding Tutberidze has a tendency to mysteriously disappear from Russian web, you know... I couldn't immediately find those particular articles in search results. I'll dig through some newspaper archives as soon as I have a bit of time. I'll let you know in case I find it.
No, it's not the same logic with Kovtun, BTW... The completely unpredictable one was Pluschenko, not Kovtun – because Pluschenko was severely injured. However, his actual skating abilities didn't matter THAT much, because he is the NATIONAL HERO for years and years. Kovtun... Kovtun who ? It HAD to be Pluschenko who carried home the gold, at ANY cost – because of TV ratings, sponsors' interest etc. It was no particular secret that everyone expected for Pluschenko to withdraw due to injury after the team event and get a medical replacement for Kovtun (because you are not allowed to replace an athlete during the Olympics unless there's an injury). Unfortunately, the officials got carried away with the euphoria after team victory. Also, there are contradicting reports whether Pluschenko insisted that he would skate in the individual event as well, or he was forced to skate by the federation and put his health in grave danger... But that's a whole another story.
I basically said that Tutberidze orchestrated for Yulia to be the sole ladies gold medalist (or that's what she expected at the time...) – not because YULIA necessarily needed that, but because Tutberidze HERSELF needed that ! The spotlight was already on Yulia, she was the SYMBOL of Sochi Olympics... She was the media darling long before she had even stepped on the Olympic ice. Yes, SHE didn't need to “wear herself out”, because people LOVED her – and they probably would have loved her anyway, even if she fell a few times and placed off the podium (which is exactly what happened in the individual event). She's a lovely, hardworking girl ! Very young at the time – the youngest member of team Russia at those Olympics, if I'm not mistaken. What is there not to love...? “Oh well, better luck at the next Olympics !”
However, who was Tutberidze at the time ? Sure, she was a successful coach. But she wasn't that global powerhouse who she is now, a houshold name in Russia. SHE needed to establish her name as the best ladies coach in the world. For that, she needed for Yulia to win, but also – for no other Russian lady to win. Why would you prefer being one of TWO Russian coaches who can lead a girl to an Olympic gold, when you have an opportunity to be the only ONE ? That would have made very little difference to Yulia whether or not Adelina skated in the team event, but it would have made a big difference for Tutberidze.
Am I really not explaining this clear enough...?
A university professor doesn't claim that he “made you” from scratch, does he...? He doesn't take credit for teaching you 4th grade math, when there was clearly someone else who did that. That's the difference. Credit should be taken where credit is due. Tutberidze routinely claims that these girls would have been NOTHING without her, even though they arrived at her camp with all of the triples. For example, Kostornaia... She was already an amazing-amazing young skater when she came to Tutberidze. Sure, she lacked polish and consistency – that's what she improved. And she learned the 3A. But she has been skating with Tutberidze for only the last 3 years – out of the 17 years of her life. There are also other coaches who deserve credit for raising her, not only-ONLY Tutberidze.
The fact that we had never heard this story about Anna – that she was asked by Tutberidze to leave her group (read, kicked out on street) and not come back until she had learned all of the triples on her own – it just proves Tutberidze's methods one more time. The story was published 2 weeks ago, you can read it here:
https://www.gazeta.ru/sport/2020/07/13/a_13151275.shtml
That's a long interview with Russian coach Viktor Adonyev who worked with Anna at the time.
My point is - in case a coach wants to work with very advanced skaters only, such as Orser for example – fine ! That's fair game. But the financing in Russia vs. U.S./Canada is very very different. In the U.S., it's normal for a senior national level skater to keep paying for everything from her own pocket (maybe with a little financial aid from the federation). In Russia – it's NOT ! That's what state-sponsored sports schools are for. Athletes' parents at this level don't pay for the coach, ice time etc., because most of the time they would simply never be able to afford it. Therefore it's completely inappropriate to kick someone “out on street” – to leave Anna without the backing of any sports school, so she had NO state-sponsored coach, no ice, no nothing. In case Tutberidze didn't want to waste time with her, she shouldn't have accepted Anna in the first place. Now, Anna was stuck – apparently she couldn't go to another coach at another school, because then she wouldn't be taken back by Tutberidze. So her parents had no choice but pay...
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