2012 GPF Free Dance FD

[ice coverage]

I wish the moderators of this board would ban all comments on female skaters' weight. Some may argue that skaters' relative weights affect lifts and jumps and are therefore a legitimate topic. But the comments are often so mean-spirited and rude, and they ignore important physical and mental health issues surrounding the subject of weight. I don't think this sensitive and complex issue is intelligently addressed with comments like "So-and-so is heavy!" "No, she isn't!"

Good suggestion, eyria.

Coincidentally, the following tweet observes that Moir literally grew up lifting Virtue. With the inevitable fluctuation in their relative sizes as they matured over the years (and with their Cirque training), surely they always are thinking through how to combine power and technique to greatest advantage.

Keira Henricks ‏@keira_h

I remember, years ago, in Ilderton, thinking how crazy it was Scott could fling Tessa around like that. Now, its like a million times more.
7:43 PM - 8 Dec 12​

 

[dorispulaski]

I believe the original exchange was credited to Marina, but the correct translation of what what she said is that Tessa skated somewhat labored (another meaning of "heavy" which has nothing to do with weight)

 

[demarinis5]

Congratulations to Meryl and Charlie. Simply the Best!!!!

Congrats to V/M and P/B, well done!

Shout out to Anna and Luca for a beautifully skated Carmen and a new well deserved SB!

 

[let`s talk]

Tessa is SOOOOO heavy. Sloppy skating in fact, with some mistakes.

She is also heavier than many ice dancers

She is very buff-looking now, and muscle tissue is heavy.

Can someone explain to me why it is fine to say "she is heavier than many others", or that "her muscles are heavy", or that "she is buff-looking" (jeez what images google gave me when I looked for pics to figure out what this urban adj means )? But why is it not fine to give a comment during watching skating LIVE like "she is SOOO heavy, with sloopy skating"? Any explanations? One poster already came up with this one:

ETA: BUT if you said this in response to let`s talk, then I am not defending that person.

So, it's all about who used the adj. "heavy". It's legitimate for some, and they can use it without any troubles. But if someone else says the same word, it becomes "harsh", "not cool" or whatever. Pardon, my dear Voir fans, but it does sound kind of wimpish whining and more than hypocritical. That is what is not cool. But if you want to act like that, why should I bother to make your image any better. Carry on.

Tessa is heavy, with heavy skating, moves, lifts and in general their FD was rather dull. About her size- a lot of people told here regaring that stuff. I am talking about skating. Maybe her size compared too small Scott ("small" is allowed? ) caused this issue, or lack of proper training after Igor left. But the whole routine looked very heavy to me. Scott was practically "pulling" her to finish the FD. Better than at CoR but still. And I am not a D/W uber as some might suggest just because I am not in love with V/M FD "Halloween came to town". D/W has recycled stuff in short-track form this season. Nothing more. I am absolutely disagree that these two teams have so much higher scores than the rest of the field. I just don't see that they are that much better than others.

Someone mentioned R-forums crap about who RusFed supports. Forum posters can suggest whatever they want. There is no ground to come up with the idea that RusFed has its preferences. There are enough conspiracy threads like "who should be promoted over whom by this/that Fed.", etc. Maybe they should open the conspiracy subforum . Russian Nationals will decide who is the champion and #1 in teh country's Ice Dance field.

 

[chuckm]

When I said Tessa was "buff" I meant she was well-muscled and in great shape. I think Tessa is at her optimum weight and she looks fine just as she is.

 

[heyhey]

Not all acrobatic lifts are "wonderful." Note that V&M made a number of changes in their FD. They got rid of that awful opening lift where I called Virtue's position similar to a "sack of potatoes" and the crotch lift has been minimized, even though it is still there. The last lift is still problematic IMHO. So I don't think V&M set any "standard" for great lifts.

You know KKonas - your personal dislike for V/M is really starting to show. If you can't at least acknowledge that their lifts in the past in FDs as Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Pink Floyd, Mahler etc haven't had any great lifts - well so be it. And really stop calling it the crotch lift. You may feel uncomfortable watching that position, but that position has been shown in professional floor dances...so yeah god forbid V/M display it on the ice... but I agree with you that the last lift is problematic and I think they will address it.

 

[Buttercup]

You know KKonas - your personal dislike for V/M is really starting to show. If you can't at least acknowledge that their lifts in the past in FDs as Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Pink Floyd, Mahler etc haven't had any great lifts - well so be it. And really stop calling it the crotch lift. You may feel uncomfortable watching that position, but that position has been shown in professional floor dances...so yeah god forbid V/M display it on the ice... but I agree with you that the last lift is problematic and I think they will address it.

I like V/M far better than D/W, and speaking of unfortunate acrobatic lifts makes me think of the latter rather than the former (if Meryl has held an attractive position, I have yet to see it). However, I do agree that V/M's crotch lift is unattractive, and I don't care who else does lifts like that. It's vulgar. I've called it worse myself.

Not related to any particular post, but the stuff about Tessa's weight is obnoxious. Do we really want ice dance to be all about tiny thin girls? Tessa looks healthy and strong, and the key is how to work with the size difference they have in the best possible way, rather than trying to recapture what they did in the past when she was slimmer. We've seen teams with similar/smaller size differences manage just fine. If Morgan Cipres can lift 1.67m Vanessa James in pairs, and the Kerrs managed nice-looking lifts despite a tiny height difference, Scott and Tessa can surely work something out. Maybe the time has come for them to do a reverse lift! They can look to Hurtado/Diaz for inspiration...

 

[let`s talk]

When I said Tessa was "buff" I meant she was well-muscled and in great shape. I think Tessa is at her optimum weight and she looks fine just as she is.

Don't worry. I don't care much what adj you use. It's your right to have "what I meant". I simply find it entertaining that this right is reserved only for some people, judging by this thread.

 

[KKonas]

You know KKonas - your personal dislike for V/M is really starting to show. If you can't at least acknowledge that their lifts in the past in FDs as Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Pink Floyd, Mahler etc haven't had any great lifts - well so be it. And really stop calling it the crotch lift. You may feel uncomfortable watching that position, but that position has been shown in professional floor dances...so yeah god forbid V/M display it on the ice... but I agree with you that the last lift is problematic and I think they will address it.

Well, someone else agreed with my critique of their lifts as they did eliminate one of them. Not saying that V&M don't have any good/great lifts, just saying they don't set a "standard" for great lifts. Other teams have some great lifts too. V&M are not the only ice dancers on the planet.

 

[aftertherain]

Can someone explain to me why it is fine to say "she is heavier than many others", or that "her muscles are heavy", or that "she is buff-looking" (jeez what images google gave me when I looked for pics to figure out what this urban adj means )? But why is it not fine to give a comment during watching skating LIVE like "she is SOOO heavy, with sloopy skating"? Any explanations? One poster already came up with this one:
So, it's all about who used the adj. "heavy". It's legitimate for some, and they can use it without any troubles. But if someone else says the same word, it becomes "harsh", "not cool" or whatever. Pardon, my dear Voir fans, but it does sound kind of wimpish whining and more than hypocritical. That is what is not cool. But if you want to act like that, why should I bother to make your image any better. Carry on.

No.

Your post and chuckm's post were different. My post was meant clarify what chuckm meant by "heavy". Since I found out from a later poster that you had made a comment earlier using "heavy" in a different context to describe her skating, I added an ETA simply because I felt that Dance Fanatic's last sentence very well could have been directed towards you; which then I could not use my explanation of muscle hypertrophy, now could I?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

V/M were the first team to score straight +3s on all their lifts and did so at the Olympics. I'd argue that alone means they've "set a standard for great lifts."

 

[mary01]

I love Meryl Davis and charlie Whites new fs it's truly beautiful, i loved their interpretation, the theme, the connection they had throughout the whole performance, i felt soo captivated watching them, couldn't take my eyes away!

 

[seniorita]

I really like this Carmen and while usually I look at Scott, this time Tessa steals the show.

And they have trained with Cirque du Soleil really?

 

[dorispulaski]

All the Canton teams had some sessions with Cirque back just after V&M and D&W moved to seniors, the second season they were in seniors I think. AFAIR, it was reported in IN.

 

[Mrs. P]

V/M were the first team to score straight +3s on all their lifts and did so at the Olympics. I'd argue that alone means they've "set a standard for great lifts."

Yes you are correct: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/owg10_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

All three lifts from Tessa and Scott got all +3 and all +1.50 GOE (the highest you can get).

That said, Meryl and Charlie were not that far behind. Their combined straight line/rotational lift got +1.40 GOE and got +2 (4 out of 9 judges) and +3 (5 out of 9 judge). Their second straight line lift and rotational lift got +1.50 GOE and got +3 from 7 out of the 9 judges (straight line) and 8 out of 9 judges for the rotational lift.

***

But let's talk about THIS season.

Here's how D/W have scored so far on their lifts in the FD.

Rotational lift (1)
SA: Level 4; + 1.50 GOE; 5.50 total
NHK: Level 4 + 1.43 GOE ; 5.43 total
GPF: Level 4 + 1.50 GOE; 5.50 total

Curved lift
SA: Level 4; +.83 GOE 4.83 total
NHK: Level 4 + 1.21 5.21 total
GPF: Level 4 + 0.83 4.83 total

Straight line lift
SA: Level 4; +.92 GOE 4.92 total
NHK: Level 4; + 1.43 GOE 5.43 total
GPF: Level 4 + .92 GOE 4.92 total

Rotational lift (2)
SA: Level 4 +1.33 GOE 4.33 total
NHK: Level 4 +1.36 GOE 5.36 total
GPF: Level 4 + 1.33 GOE 5.33 total

Choreographic lift
SA: +.55 GOE .75 total
NHK: +.80 GOE 1.00 total
GPF: + .55 GOE .75 total

Total lift scores
SA: 20.33
NHK: 22.43
GPF: 21.33
Average: 21.36

Here's V/M scores:

Curved lift
SC: Level 4 + 1.00 5.00 total
COR: Level 4 + 1.07 5.07 total
GPF: Level 4 + 1.14; 5.14 total


Straight line/Rotational lift
SC: Level 4 + 2.43 10.43
COR Level 4 + 2.14 10.14
GPF: Level 4 +2.57; 10.57

Rotational lift
SC: Level 4 + 1.14 5.14
COR Level 4 + 1.07 5.07
GPF: Level 4 +1.43 5.43

Choreographic lift
SC: +0.66 GOE = .86 total
COR +0.37 GOE = .57 total
GPF: + 0.29 GOE = .49 total

Total lift score:

SC: 21.43
COR: 20.85
GPF: 21.63
Average: 21.30

V/M edges D/W in the GPF, but on average, it's still REALLY close. While some (including myself) may not care for the positions V/M does in their FD, as far as the ACTUAL judging, V/M haven't been really marked too much for it.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I've gotta ask, why do you refer to the choreographic lift as a level four for D/W and not for V/M when there is no level assigned period?

 

[uncchristine99]

Tessa is perfect and I agree with those who say they can work on lifts that are more fluid and fitting to their style and height/size differential. They're the Olympic champions for crying out loud--they don't need to do anything beyond step on the ice and do what they do best--they certainly don't need to "keep up the Joneses" on lifts or any other element. Truthfully, I never even thought of it that way but it does seem apparent now that we're talking about it.

Congrats to Davis and White! I'm thrilled that they got massive marks all over this competition--that's such a boost for the second half of the season. So far though, I still like the NHK version of their free dance the best! I still think they're late getting into the last 3 lifts though--they were late hitting the two big musical cues so that was kind of "eh." I love them though--way to hold on to the title and put the heat on V/M! It's just nuts how they trade titles back and forth, back and forth!

 

[Mrs. P]

I've gotta ask, why do you refer to the choreographic lift as a level four for D/W and not for V/M when there is no level assigned period?

It was a typo -- too many calculations today.

Will change it.

 

[tulosai]

I know Tessa gained a bit of weight, but am I the only one who thought Scott looked SMALLER than he used to be? When he was standing by the boards getting ready to go, he looked miniscule!

It occurred to me earlier today that it is a bit strange/hypocritical/WEIRD that while LOTS of people talk freely about Tessa's weight, not one (myself included) has thought to say maybe Scott should bulk up a bit.

Maybe Scott should bulk up a bit.

On another note I made my boy watch D/W free dance. He asked me if they are together romantically. I would say their new 'connection' on the ice is working.

 

[NorthernDancers]

The discussion of Tessa’s weight is old, rude, disgusting and completely off base. It’s wrong on so many levels. This is not the first time “let’s talk” and others have raised Tessa’s weight, and there is no other way to take this comment. It’s fine to prefer one team over another, or not to like a certain type of skating. But there is no reason to descend into this level of disgusting, personalized attack.

Let’s be clear, for those who like to hide behind foreign language…..the definition of heavy: having great weight…..the synonyms of heavy: abundant, ample, awkward, beefy, big, built, bulky, burdensome, chunky, considerable, cumbersome, excessive, fat, hefty, huge, laden, large, lead-footed, loaded, lumbering, massive, obese, overweight, ponderous, stout, substantial, unmanageable, unwieldy, weighted, weighty. DO YOU REALLY THINK ANY OF THESE DESCRIBE TESSA VIRTUE? HAVE YOU EVER MET TESSA? This is Tessa…. A very healthy, lean, light, beautiful, gorgeous Tessa from this week’s practices.

http://lizabet236.gallery.ru/watch?ph=FHz-enrrY
http://lizabet236.gallery.ru/watch?ph=FHz-enrr7
http://lizabet236.gallery.ru/watch?ph=FHz-enrr9
http://lizabet236.gallery.ru/watch?ph=FHz-enrsg

The issue of weight and size is a huge hot button in the world of skating, and one that people need to address honestly and not in this vitriolic manner. You want to know why skating is not so popular these days? It has very little to do with the “new” judging system that seems to occupy so many threads in forums. One of the many reasons has to do with parents not wanting to put their girls in a sport that sometimes demands weigh-ins and specific and often unhealthy weight goals, promotes poor body image, and can regularly end in mild to severe eating disorders. I’ve known some parents who have specifically removed their young daughters from the sport and moved them to others because they are not comfortable having conversations about their daughters’ weights at such a young age.

I don’t know how many people remember this article from a few years ago when Tanith talked about her own disordered eating. It’s a very worthy read…

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/sports/olympics/17icedancers.html?_r=0

There should be no discussion about Tessa’s healthy looking, lean, trim body. There should be lots of discussion about why these young women are so thin, and what can be done to help them develop healthy body weight and body image:

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/tYtc...e+Skating+Final+2010+11/megc6SAKTnX/Pang+Qing
http://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/276300798143635456/photo/1
http://www.examiner.com/article/kavaguti-and-smirnov-hold-on-for-the-win-at-trophee-eric-bompard
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/pi...f-Figure-Skating-Cup-of-Russia-in-Moscow.html