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- Jan 13, 2014
Did she ever land that in competition? I can't recall.
2014-2015 GPF Ladies Free Skate 12/13
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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Did she ever land that in competition? I can't recall.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
Hm that's funny, the Olympic medalists were also all absent from the next GPF too.
I agree that Ashley's choreography is a little cheesy and overwrought. That said, I still would put her PCS higher than Liza's because I don't like the way Liza moves her arms, she can follow the music but it's like she has an aversion to fully extending her arms. It gets bothersome after a while.
I can't speak for zamboni step but it sounds like what he/she said translates to something like this: much higher on SS & IN = around 0.7 per category so maybe 2 points total after 1.6x factoring, PE up to 0.3 = > 0.5 after factoring, the other categories the same, which still adds up to 2.5 PCS advantage total for the FS.
RE Julia's scoring, PCS of skaters from countries with deep fields will be as volatile as their placements - Miki Ando's PCS was like a roller coaster between 2008 and 2011 depending on whether Asada was present in good form or not. I'm sure the Russian top 2 will have secure 60+ PCS at Worlds even with subpar skates (maybe near 70 if they hit) but the #3 is unpredictable.
Japan's current seniors look like a dead end to me in terms of World title chances pre-Pyeongchang. They all have technique issues (both real and imaginary) that are punished severely in BV and GOE, and even if I like them and they're pleasant to watch, they lack Miki and Mao's immense talent that was manifest from age 13. Peak Mao (2007-08, 2013-14) and peak Miki (anytime she could land her 3-3 and 2011 4CC) had TES ceilings well in the 70s while Kanako and Satoko pretty much topped out this year at 4CC with 68/69. Kanako is inconsistent and doesn't even seem to like competition that much - I think she said she wanted to retire after Sochi but feels like it's her job to keep competing to keep Japan's spots. As for Satoko, I do like her but the points she loses on jumps can't be ignored. Though I did find it quite funny when Blades of Passion said that Satoko is currently the best skater in the world if jumps are completely neglected. There's always the chance that both will be late bloomers like Arakawa or Suzuki but that could take years (and Arakawa had a big, unquestionably clean 3Lutz, which Kanako will not have at any point in the foreseeable future). Most likely the younger Japanese like Honda et al. will have more potential.
Yes, in the Skate America short program in 1991.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Let's just say I believe Elena's jumps will have a better time surviving growth. I feel Elena's issues with the jumps (mostly just jerky landings) are smaller and probably easier to fix than Julia's problems. Julia's jump technique is pretty non conventional, from the flutz to the 2nd toe takeoff in her 3-3's. Also, why doesn't Julia attempt a 3flip-3toe? Her flip is much better than her flutz.
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- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Yet she had all her flutz rectified this GPF and it is her Flips that had been hit with an e. Bizarre... still covering up for Sochi? ISU technical caller were quite generous this competition. If Ashley is the only contender from US, i expect this trend will continue at WC.
Re: CarneAsda, what do you think of Wakaba Higuchi's chances for 2018?
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- Oct 31, 2014
I know I'm a late comer but I can't help saying this out loud: I'm so happy for Ashley's performance yesterday.
That performance was so awesome and breathtaking. I couldn't take off my eyes from every moves she delivered on the ice!
I didn't expect she can do that after the short program, so I truly applause her invincible sprite.
I can't wait to see whether she can get back the national champion title again.
I'm also so pleased with the outcome: Liza finally made it! She is the 2014 grand prix final champion at last!
After having some difficult years, she has endeavored herself so hard, and finally such efforts are all paid back.
That performance was so awesome and breathtaking. I couldn't take off my eyes from every moves she delivered on the ice!
I didn't expect she can do that after the short program, so I truly applause her invincible sprite.
I can't wait to see whether she can get back the national champion title again.
I'm also so pleased with the outcome: Liza finally made it! She is the 2014 grand prix final champion at last!
After having some difficult years, she has endeavored herself so hard, and finally such efforts are all paid back.
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- Sep 17, 2011
Julia's been called on 3F(e) in the past. In 2012 she had calls on her flip and Lutz at different competitions. It looks like she goes from outside to near-flat on both jumps. The Eurosport commentators at the GPF were unsure about both jumps too.
Wakaba Higuchi I find very polished for her age, her jump technique is solid, and I liked her in the JGPF more than Medvedeva or Sakhanovich (albeit only slightly). Are you asking about what I think of her chances to make the team or her chances to medal? Chances to make the team are fine, chances to medal really depend on whether she can add something to her programs to stand out. 7 triples is apparently no longer good enough against 3 Russians with 7 'Tano triples and all Level 4 elements.
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- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Well, If I follow the tech panel, I would say I have no idea now who's better and who's not. The flip or the lutz
While I can't comment about the edges (both look unsure), what I do know is that the flip has been giving Yulia a lot of trouble this season--popping, falling, ect. So imo, she should keep the 3Lz-3T (or even go back to 3T-3T if that helps her skate clean).
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
I love how people call Julia's jump technique 'non-conventional'. Can we just be honest and say it's bad? It's frankly like that of Caroline Zhang, and people have no trouble admitting that her technique was bad. It is important to accept this, because then at least the skater can realistically work on changing the technique to something better. 
Also, still absolutely no interest in this GPF whatsoever. The field is just so bleh.
Also, still absolutely no interest in this GPF whatsoever. The field is just so bleh.
about Julia's jump(flutz/flip/lutz/lip), my observation is that she doesnot have good technique on either, so she is prone to double edge call (as posted above). She cannot hold a secure inside nor outside edge on the take off. that jump basically for her is just a jump take off from left leg...
Julia jumps with "arms" according to Jenny of TSL (Jenny is back, so I started to watch TSL again)
Julia jumps with "arms" according to Jenny of TSL (Jenny is back, so I started to watch TSL again)
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
It's hardly honesty, I'd more call it venting a grudge against Russian skaters for the sins of past judging panels. In what world do Caroline Zhang's hammer-toed, perpetually underrotated, very clear inside edge flip and flutz merit a comparison to Lipnitskaya's? I don't like the hunched-over look of Lipnitskaya's 3-3s, nor do I find her flip or Lutz incredibily attractive (and it's true the edge is not great whether she actually flutzes or lips), but they are nothing like Zhang's. The proof of that is in the way Zhang failed to make a single World team in a country that didn't produce any medal winners those years while Lipnitskiy here has made the GPF 3 years in a row in addition to winning team Olympic gold and World silver.^^ I like your honesty
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- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
Well the difference between Zhang and Lip is that the latter actually lands the jumps. As did Caroline before she hit puberty. Granted, Caroline's swing is worse, but the idea is the same. And why is it only Russian skaters if I am calling out an American skater on it, too? I frankly will call out any technique which I find to be flawed no matter what nationality it is.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
You must have forgotten how Caroline Zhang's classic mule kick flips look. Here's a refresher. And another. Or are you comparing with her flip from when she had it fixed with Oppegard? It did look a lot better at 2012 4CC, but then she did the same old mule kick on her Lutz 20 seconds later.Well the difference between Zhang and Lip is that the latter actually lands the jumps. As did Caroline before she hit puberty. Granted, Caroline's swing is worse, but the idea is the same. And why is it only Russian skaters if I am calling out an American skater on it, too? I frankly will call out any technique which I find to be flawed no matter what nationality it is.
In comparison, Lipnitskaya doesn't reach very far back or kick very high at all before her Lutz, as we can see in her 2012 Junior Worlds FS. She also has nothing resembling a mule kick on her flip, as seen in her 2013 GPF SP, or a year later in her 2014 SP.
Their flips/flutzes frankly look nothing alike. There'd be nothing surprising or wrong about bringing up the similarities between Zhang and Murakami's flips/Lutzes, but I don't see any reasoning behind saying "Lipnitskaya jumps like Zhang" unless you just wanted to bring up the jumper of the ugliest flips in the world to make Julia look bad. Are you still serious about saying that Lipnitskaya's flip/Lutz technique is "frankly like Caroline Zhang's" despite these numerous video examples to the contrary? There could be some resemblance between Caroline's 2012 flip and the flips Julia has done throughout her career, but that really wouldn't be much of a negative.
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"I love how people call Julia's jump technique 'non-conventional'. Can we just be honest and say it's bad?"
this is honesty, and whether their technique is exactly the same, I didnot watch them enough to make detailed comparison. Usually programs with ugly (or "non-conventional" jumps) I dont watch that much. as far as my impression, some mechanic that caused their jump problems are similar. not exactly the "mule" kick.
As for who hold "grudges" against who, well, let us not go down that rabbit hole.
the bottom line is that Julia's flip/flutz（whatever）technique is indeed "bad" and that really is a honest judgement.
and to make my point even more clear, personally, I was never on the "bandwagon" of JuliaLip, before or after Sochi scandal. Her skating is just simply not my cup of tea. and has nothing to do with "grudge against Russia or judging scandal".
this is honesty, and whether their technique is exactly the same, I didnot watch them enough to make detailed comparison. Usually programs with ugly (or "non-conventional" jumps
) I dont watch that much. as far as my impression, some mechanic that caused their jump problems are similar. not exactly the "mule" kick.As for who hold "grudges" against who, well, let us not go down that rabbit hole.
the bottom line is that Julia's flip/flutz（whatever）technique is indeed "bad" and that really is a honest judgement.
and to make my point even more clear, personally, I was never on the "bandwagon" of JuliaLip, before or after Sochi scandal. Her skating is just simply not my cup of tea. and has nothing to do with "grudge against Russia or judging scandal".
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- Oct 22, 2005
This is a VERY good description of it. She is using her upper body to generate the rotational force to get the jump rotated, NOT the technique of the blade/feet/knees.
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- Dec 29, 2013
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Not everyone has to use one particular technique to get scores on jumps. There is no one way. People with great technique still have issues. So Youn has a great technique but she has a weird hitch or lunge before her lutz. She carries a long set up into the lutz which compounds the issue because your waiting waiting waiting and then the jerk happens at take off. That said when she lands it, it is a beautiful jump because she has good centering and carries a smooth transition out. She is one of my favorite skaters to watch now so maybe there is some bias to speak of but simply put. She has good jumps she just has a speed issue at takeoff on the lutz. Does this make her not watchable?
The point is..there isn't one correct way to jump even though I keep seeing the phrase perfect jump technique which simply does not exist. If you rotate it full and attack at least two or three of the eight bullets you should be rewarded. The judges can't look at Yulia's jumps and say..that's some crazy arm technique and ignore her other attributes in the jump. Now if she keeps falling they will simply be left with no other choice but to dock her points
The point is..there isn't one correct way to jump even though I keep seeing the phrase perfect jump technique which simply does not exist. If you rotate it full and attack at least two or three of the eight bullets you should be rewarded. The judges can't look at Yulia's jumps and say..that's some crazy arm technique and ignore her other attributes in the jump. Now if she keeps falling they will simply be left with no other choice but to dock her points
You are indeed biased, just not biased towards SoYoun...Not everyone has to use one particular technique to get scores on jumps. There is no one way. People with great technique still have issues. So Youn has a great technique but she has a weird hitch or lunge before her lutz. She carries a long set up into the lutz which compounds the issue because your waiting waiting waiting and then the jerk happens at take off. That said when she lands it, it is a beautiful jump because she has good centering and carries a smooth transition out. She is one of my favorite skaters to watch now so maybe there is some bias to speak of but simply put. She has good jumps she just has a speed issue at takeoff on the lutz. Does this make her not watchable?
The point is..there isn't one correct way to jump even though I keep seeing the phrase perfect jump technique which simply does not exist. If you rotate it full and attack at least two or three of the eight bullets you should be rewarded. The judges can't look at Yulia's jumps and say..that's some crazy arm technique and ignore her other attributes in the jump. Now if she keeps falling they will simply be left with no other choice but to dock her points
You say you're not biased against the Russians, yet in the JGPF thread, you said Wakaba Higuchi (and implied, So Youn Park) has a more polished technique than Elizaveta Tuktamysheva? I liked what I saw from Wakaba, I can even understand preferring her to Evgenia or Serafima... but she's thirteen, still unproven on the senior stage, and her technique hasn't gone through the test of puberty/injuries/everything Liza had to overcome. Where on earth are you pulling these conclusions from?Well the difference between Zhang and Lip is that the latter actually lands the jumps. As did Caroline before she hit puberty. Granted, Caroline's swing is worse, but the idea is the same. And why is it only Russian skaters if I am calling out an American skater on it, too? I frankly will call out any technique which I find to be flawed no matter what nationality it is.
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