2014-2015 GPF Mens Short Program 12/12

[yyyskate]

Wow that Samurai program posing with a sword is all sort of weird, Elena from outerspace I will always love you in tin foil hat darth cape weird. Perhaps the two should do duet gala program together just to see what happens. Ice melt. Volcano erupts. Storm and lightning. Sun Eclipse. Electric fireworks. Brain melts. Tears in eyes.

Samurai Machida + outerspace Elena

 

[KansaiPJ]

Why exactly do the men get <24 hours to recover/prepare for the free but the ladies get almost 48 hours? You'd think the men with their quads would need more rest. I feel like every time this happens the men have a splat-fest.

I agree with you. People wonder about the falls in FS, but when you give the skaters less than 24 hours between routines, it is bound to happen...

 

[Icey]

PE mark should get an automatic -1 deduction for each fall. IMO.

Maybe some bonus points when there are no falls.

 

[Mathman]

Maybe some bonus points when there are no falls.

I think no falls should be the minimal expectation, not something to be rewarded.

 

[karne]

Woke up to find that Hanyu had scored 94, and thought, oh, he must have finally gone clean.

*shakes head* This is beyond a joke. I thought the days of inflation were bad, but it seems Hanyuflation is worse! No way should anyone be cracking 90 with a fall!

 

[Mathman]

Woke up to find that Hanyu had scored 94, and thought, oh, he must have finally gone clean.

*shakes head* This is beyond a joke. I thought the days of inflation were bad, but it seems Hanyuflation is worse! No way should anyone be cracking 90 with a fall!

The ISU has boxed itself into a corner. They give .2 points for tying your bootlaces and another .3 for scratching your butt. This guarantees that skaters like Chan and Hanyu, who are really, really good, will always rack up big points no matter how bad their performance is.

This makes a mockery of the notion of sport. In American football, suppose the star wide receiver goes out for a pass, runs a stunningly complicated route, fakes out the defensive back, breaks into the clear with a burst of speed -- but drops the ball. Should we give him 5.95 points instead of the 6-point touchdown because he demonstrated such remarkable "football skills?"

 

[Krunchii]

Why exactly do the men get <24 hours to recover/prepare for the free but the ladies get almost 48 hours? You'd think the men with their quads would need more rest. I feel like every time this happens the men have a splat-fest.

I agree, it's poor planning but I guess they're trying to make sure there are exciting events everyday, Ladies/Pairs on the first day, Mens/ID the next, they should split it more evenly

I think no falls should be the minimal expectation, not something to be rewarded.

Woke up to find that Hanyu had scored 94, and thought, oh, he must have finally gone clean.

*shakes head* This is beyond a joke. I thought the days of inflation were bad, but it seems Hanyuflation is worse! No way should anyone be cracking 90 with a fall!

Well there was Worlds 2014...

 

[StitchMonkey]

Woke up to find that Hanyu had scored 94, and thought, oh, he must have finally gone clean.

*shakes head* This is beyond a joke. I thought the days of inflation were bad, but it seems Hanyuflation is worse! No way should anyone be cracking 90 with a fall!

Maybe someone is just really happy to have a reigning OGM skating and competing.

 

[kimganos]

Woke up to find that Hanyu had scored 94, and thought, oh, he must have finally gone clean.

*shakes head* This is beyond a joke. I thought the days of inflation were bad, but it seems Hanyuflation is worse! No way should anyone be cracking 90 with a fall!

The score might have been too high but the placement was correct.

 

[Mathman]

The score might have been too high but the placement was correct.

I wish the ISU would give serious thought to this. I feel the same way about most skating contests. The placements are correct but the scores are crazy.

Explain to me again why we like point totals better than ordinal placements?

 

[Interspectator]

I wish the ISU would give serious thought to this. I feel the same way about most skating contests. The placements are correct but the scores are crazy.

Explain to me again why we like point totals better than ordinal placements?

point totals give us more to argue about...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I wish the ISU would give serious thought to this. I feel the same way about most skating contests. The placements are correct but the scores are crazy.

Explain to me again why we like point totals better than ordinal placements?

Do you think the ISU raises the average score every four years just to keep us talking. It is interesting at times watching people attempt to compare skaters and scores from different seasons though wildly varying rules/punishment practices /rewards were in place. Someone needs to make a poster or graph with pictures that properly convert scores by season into a nice number for all to agree on

Regarding Javi: So sad for him. Skating at home can be such a double edged sword. The support and pressure can hurt as much as help. Considering the rare opportunity for him to skate such a big event at home makes me double sad.

 

[sabinfire]

This makes a mockery of the notion of sport. In American football, suppose the star wide receiver goes out for a pass, runs a stunningly complicated route, fakes out the defensive back, breaks into the clear with a burst of speed -- but drops the ball. Should we give him 5.95 points instead of the 6-point touchdown because he demonstrated such remarkable "football skills?"

Yup, getting real sick of all the falls, yet 'rewarding the effort' with 70% of the points that a cleanly landed jump would get you. With this system in place, it's actually better to attempt the jump and fall on your butt than it is to pop a jump or only get a single/double rotation and clean landing with a positive GoE. This is why we see so many skaters, especially the men, hurling themselves into the air to try to get those 3-4 rotations and rack up the points, regardless of whether they can land on their feet or not.

I'd rather see a cleanly skated program win a medal than a messy/flawed program, regardless of the technical points awarded to 'good attempts' at a triple or quad. It's really laughable that someone can win a silver medal after falling 5 times. To me, that is a disaster any way you look at it.

Skate within your abilities, and work to pull together a seamless program without any major errors. Those are the memorable programs that stick with me and I want to re-watch over the years.

 

[begin]

I wish the ISU would give serious thought to this. I feel the same way about most skating contests. The placements are correct but the scores are crazy.

Explain to me again why we like point totals better than ordinal placements?

I imagine the judges and ISU enjoy seeing the sport progress--even if in actuality, that's not the case.

 

[WYW]

Yup, getting real sick of all the falls, yet 'rewarding the effort' with 70% of the points that a cleanly landed jump would get you. With this system in place, it's actually better to attempt the jump and fall on your butt than it is to pop a jump or only get a single/double rotation and clean landing with a positive GoE. This is why we see so many skaters, especially the men, hurling themselves into the air to try to get those 3-4 rotations and rack up the points, regardless of whether they can land on their feet or not.

I'd rather see a cleanly skated program win a medal than a messy/flawed program, regardless of the technical points awarded to 'good attempts' at a triple or quad. It's really laughable that someone can win a silver medal after falling 5 times. To me, that is a disaster any way you look at it.

Skate within your abilities, and work to pull together a seamless program without any major errors. Those are the memorable programs that stick with me and I want to re-watch over the years.

I agree with most of what you said. But just a thought... anyone can land a single or a double, but only a handful of people can rotate and fall on a quad <-- which I believe is the logic behind giving a fall on a quad more points. To answer Mathman earlier about why scores are better than ordinals. Remember that the sport is more than just the elite skaters (although it is a big and arguably the most important part). Imagine yourself as a judge at an intermediate level competition. There are 30 girls all with similar technical patterns, can do all the doubles, similar spin quality etc. Sure you are going to have some who are clearly better and some clearly not at the same level, but the vast majority of them are indistinguishable. As you slowly judge this competition, you realize that it is becoming impossible to accurately place the skaters... and that is the beauty of the point system from a judges perspective. Judges no longer need to rank skaters, no longer need to juggle between difficulty of program vs X number of falls. Judges are just required to look at each element and give a GOE based on their interpretation of the jump according to book. The computers and predetermined point totals takes over the rest.

I think we can all agree that the current system does not punish falls enough, and that there are many things that need to be changed. I believe that we do sometimes care a bit too much about the scores, and it is important keep in mind that the point system is put into place so we can award points to skaters more consistently (and hopefully rank them properly!). In 2 or 3 years, we don't (or at least I don't) remember the point totals of the skates. However, I do remember the final rankings of the competition, and ultimately, it is the rankings that are truly important.

 

[el henry]

The ISU has boxed itself into a corner. They give .2 points for tying your bootlaces and another .3 for scratching your butt. This guarantees that skaters like Chan and Hanyu, who are really, really good, will always rack up big points no matter how bad their performance is.

This makes a mockery of the notion of sport. In American football, suppose the star wide receiver goes out for a pass, runs a stunningly complicated route, fakes out the defensive back, breaks into the clear with a burst of speed -- but drops the ball. Should we give him 5.95 points instead of the 6-point touchdown because he demonstrated such remarkable "football skills?"

:thumbsup:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I agree with most of what you said. But just a thought... anyone can land a single or a double, but only a handful of people can rotate and fall on a quad <-- which I believe is the logic behind giving a fall on a quad more points. To answer Mathman earlier about why scores are better than ordinals. Remember that the sport is more than just the elite skaters (although it is a big and arguably the most important part). Imagine yourself as a judge at an intermediate level competition. There are 30 girls all with similar technical patterns, can do all the doubles, similar spin quality etc. Sure you are going to have some who are clearly better and some clearly not at the same level, but the mast majority of them are indistinguishable. As you slowly judge this competition, you realize that it is becoming impossible to accurately place the skaters... and that is the beauty of the system from a judges perspective. Judges no longer need to rank skaters, no longer need to juggle between difficulty of program vs X number of falls. Judges are just required to look at each element and give a GOE based on their interpretation of the jump according to book. The computers and predetermined point totals takes over the rest.

I think we can all agree that the current system does not punish falls enough, and that there are many things that need to be changed. I believe that we do sometimes care a bit too much about the scores, and it is important keep in mind that the point system is put into place so we can award points to skaters more consistently (and hopefully rank them properly!). In 2 or 3 years, we don't (or at least I don't) remember the point totals of the skates. However, I do remember the final rankings of the competition, and ultimately, it is the rankings that are truly important.

I love this post!! Thank you and why don't you post more often.

 

[lady_bee]

Why exactly do the men get <24 hours to recover/prepare for the free but the ladies get almost 48 hours? You'd think the men with their quads would need more rest. I feel like every time this happens the men have a splat-fest.

That's what I am worried about.
I think that was the reason why men had splat-fest in Sochi

 

[peg]

But don't the skaters skate on back-to-back days at GP events? There's not usually a rest day, is there?

 

[lady_bee]

Wow that Samurai program posing with a sword is all sort of weird, Elena from outerspace I will always love you in tin foil hat darth cape weird. Perhaps the two should do duet gala program together just to see what happens. Ice melt. Volcano erupts. Storm and lightning. Sun Eclipse. Electric fireworks. Brain melts. Tears in eyes.

I'd love to watch it
It's off the topic, but I want to say, Elena is not acting someone from outer-space, but Whitney Houston in the movie "The Bodyguard" .
(I don't understand why her team piked up that old movie which appeals only to people over age 40s.)