I'm calling your comments ignorant (and they continue to be so). The rest of the sports world seems to be in agreement with me except for the ISU so yeah, I'd say I know well enough.
2014 Cup of China Mens Short Program 11/07
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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I'm calling your comments ignorant (and they continue to be so). The rest of the sports world seems to be in agreement with me except for the ISU so yeah, I'd say I know well enough.
Physical symptoms of a concussion: dizziness, vomiting, nausea, lack of motor coordination, difficulty balancing, or other problems with movement or sensation. Mental symptoms: confusion, disorientation, difficulty with reasoning, concentrating, and performing everyday activities.
A person with a concussion can't make a rational decision. It has nothing to do with being ignorant. It means they have a brain injury and can't think properly.
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- Nov 19, 2013
Wow. I'm just surprised he skated and I know that there would have been nobody to stop him. I've had a concussion (car accident) and for me, it took a few minutes to set in. And maybe that's when he made his choice to skate. But, it's not a time to make a choice like that. I really hope he heals well and moves forward in good health so we can enjoy his skating!
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Concussion is a rare rather than regular occurrence in figure skating compared to many other sports. In boxing, heads are punched hard and a knockout is a much desired outcome and objective. Violent body contacts are a regular part of sports such as football and hockey. Violent crashes are common in high thrill sports like downhill and aerial skiing as well as motor sports. I would not accuse ISU as being less caring about concussions by its athletes. We are not at a point of requiring helmets to be worn by skaters.
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- Mar 3, 2014
Which is exactly why a protocol forbidding skaters from competing after losing consciousness in an accident is needed. If skaters or the skating community do not know the real risks of skating after an incident like this, then someone needs to tell them. Immediately.
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Yes, I think they should too. That was utter lunacy.
It made me think of Allen Simonsen. He crashed out on the first lap of the Le Mans 24HR race last year. It was a big impact, but he got out of the car himself, and went and sat next to the medical officials at the corner, who made him lie down. At first he was laughing and joking and wanted to rejoin the race if a car could be found. Then gradually, he got quieter, and quieter, and then he just closed his eyes and died.
People might laugh that off, but it is COMPLETELY possible that something like that could have happened here. Those two men needed to be at a hospital, not trying to skate and rattle their already-rattled brains even further.
It made me think of Allen Simonsen. He crashed out on the first lap of the Le Mans 24HR race last year. It was a big impact, but he got out of the car himself, and went and sat next to the medical officials at the corner, who made him lie down. At first he was laughing and joking and wanted to rejoin the race if a car could be found. Then gradually, he got quieter, and quieter, and then he just closed his eyes and died.
People might laugh that off, but it is COMPLETELY possible that something like that could have happened here. Those two men needed to be at a hospital, not trying to skate and rattle their already-rattled brains even further.
Exactly.
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- Aug 9, 2008
Actually it happened at the OLY with Tai and Randy. Mr. Nicks pulled them, they wanted to skate. So it is possible and he should not have supported it by any means. There is a lot of training and education medically for coaches knowing that sort of thing and having the training to make decisions such as this or resources to consult if you don't. Also I know the US federation can pull the plug on an athlete medically unless they are cleared by several paperwork trails/doctors ok's and testing. Injured even slightly and not cleared medically you are not skating and it should be that way for the ISU. Also aren't there a lot of people that have thought themselves ok after a head injury then died like the next day?? Scary stuff not to be messed with and scary precedent to set at such a high level competition. So wrong on every level! I'm worried for other athletes going forward too if this is going to be ok. Also if there are future medical repercussions for this whom ever let it go forward ISU will be responsible legally so I am not sure this is done yet.
I totally agree. Scores and medal and trip to the GPF notwithstanding, whoever allowed Hanyu on the ice should be fired, immediately. The fact that he fell 5 times in his freeskate tells me unequivocally that he should not have been out there. When you have been hit in the head, hard, you literally are not capable of making good decisions.
I remember when a man had a car accident just across the street from our home. He had a head injury and my mother, who had advanced first aid, went to help him. He got combative, and kept insisting that he was okay etc. even though he was dripping blood and showing other obvious signs of injury. This is not atypical for a head injury. That's why somebody else has to be in charge of making the choices at that point. The injured party cannot.
So while the scoring in this case was ridiculous, that's not the most important thing needing review. Protocol for someone with a head injury being able to skate or not needs to be seriously looked at.
My take on the whole discussion of someone deciding a skater can't skate and to pull them from a GP event.
a) skating is slightly different from some of the other professional sports like the NFL and various football leagues (soccer to us American) in that those athletes are adults. Figure skating a lot of the time involves teens. I don't know if a skater should be allowed to make the decision to continue to compete, especially when adrenaline might be affect their judgement.
b) But at the same time I know there are several skaters that support their family based off their skating. To me if the ISU is going to implement a policy where a doctor can decide a skater can't skate their FS and ruin their chance at winning that event and in the case of the GP - ruin their chance to go to the GPF - there should be some money that goes to the skater. And if the ISU is going to put that policy into place - could they consider some kind of 'make-up' event or Senior B competition that skaters could go to, to try and earn points for a GPF berth?
a) skating is slightly different from some of the other professional sports like the NFL and various football leagues (soccer to us American) in that those athletes are adults. Figure skating a lot of the time involves teens. I don't know if a skater should be allowed to make the decision to continue to compete, especially when adrenaline might be affect their judgement.
b) But at the same time I know there are several skaters that support their family based off their skating. To me if the ISU is going to implement a policy where a doctor can decide a skater can't skate their FS and ruin their chance at winning that event and in the case of the GP - ruin their chance to go to the GPF - there should be some money that goes to the skater. And if the ISU is going to put that policy into place - could they consider some kind of 'make-up' event or Senior B competition that skaters could go to, to try and earn points for a GPF berth?
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That's scary *shudders* !!!!! Omg. I don't want to get a horrible thought in my mind now!
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- Jan 1, 2013
I won't apologise - if that sort of story is what is needed to make skaters and fans take concussion seriously, so be it.
(But I am sorry if I interfered with any sleep.)
I'm sure this probably was already discussed somewhere on the forum, but do we have confirmation that Hanyu and Yan were actually both concussed or passed out? Or even woozy? From the video footage I've seen, Hanyu seemed to continue moving after he was hit. He looked to be in pain, but it didn't look like he was knocked out cold at all. Perhaps he mostly just got the wind knocked out of him (in addition to his wounds that required stitches)? Both skaters should absolutely have been given the basic tests for a concussion before returning to the ice, but if neither one of them actually got knocked out cold, I don't think it's as horrifying that they ended up competing as some are making it sound. Hanyu didn't look right in the warmup, but again, maybe he was just in pain or was suffering from the wind being knocked out of him. Maybe it's not right for us to assume that he was knocked unconscious and skating with a dangerous head condition. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken and there is indeed official word that they were unconscious.
Its been reported on here that both coaches have said that the skaters were knocked out. It's troubling to me that neither were immediately unconscious, but minutes later were unconscious - I'm not a doctor but that seems like thats really bad.
Yes, both of their coaches confirmed that they were unconscious at one point (they passed out after getting off the rink). Han made it a few steps further than Yuzuru, who dropped the second he was off the ice and was out cold for a substantial amount of time.
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I understand what you're trying to get across here with this.
It won't deprived me of sleep, but it'll make me think how much I really care for skaters I'm fans of.
Yes, I watched the videos carefully, and though I can't be completely sure, as I was not there, but I doubt either Yzuru or Han had a period of conscience loss. Han was not hit in the head and he had a more controlled fall on the ice. Yzuru, hit his head on Han's chest, and might have bruised Han's chin (y bruising his head), but I think the big impact that bruised his chin was when he fell on the ice. There is no doubt they were both shocked by the high speed impact and the resulted trauma. But I don't think there is any concussion or any deep/profound/bad injury. Of course both should be checked, for (less possible) internal bleeding (mostly Han), and of course concussion should be ruled out for both, but mostly Yzuru.
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- Nov 19, 2010
Yuzuru stayed on the ice longer though there were movements. Eventually he got up and moved off the ice on his own but was helped immediately to sit down and get treatment. He remained lucid since, reported as keeping his sense of humour and insisting on competing.
Han got up sooner than Yuzuru and was helped to get to the locker room. He collapsed after a few steps and stayed lying down for quite a while. His loss of consciousness even affected his sight. His coach had him take off his skates and wanted to call off his competition. First words Han uttered upon regaining consciousness was about the competition. He insisted on skating and waited for Yuzuru to finish before being taken on a stretcher to the hospital. Yuzuru too was taken to the hospital for brain examination. There is at least one photo of him smiling on the stretcher. They were both released later awaiting examination results. Yuzuru is supposed to return to Japan on Sunday and will receive further treatment there.
Almost all of this has been videoed and/or photographed. Locker room story was reported by Chinese news.
Han got up sooner than Yuzuru and was helped to get to the locker room. He collapsed after a few steps and stayed lying down for quite a while. His loss of consciousness even affected his sight. His coach had him take off his skates and wanted to call off his competition. First words Han uttered upon regaining consciousness was about the competition. He insisted on skating and waited for Yuzuru to finish before being taken on a stretcher to the hospital. Yuzuru too was taken to the hospital for brain examination. There is at least one photo of him smiling on the stretcher. They were both released later awaiting examination results. Yuzuru is supposed to return to Japan on Sunday and will receive further treatment there.
Almost all of this has been videoed and/or photographed. Locker room story was reported by Chinese news.
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