2014 NHK Trophy Mens Free Skate 11/29

[Mrs. P]

Agreed. He was ridiculously held up at Cup of China and (less ridiculously held up) at NHK. Same goes for Brown at Skate America, since he was also close to making the final.

Skaters like Ge, Menshov, Ten, Nguyen and even Murakami with just one event put out way better performances than Hanyu/Brown and are far more deserving.

Hopefully Hanyu gets it together at the final though. Should be very interesting!

Ten? He basically had one great SP at Trophee Eric Bompard, and he wouldn't have even medaled there had it not been for Menshov's zayak. He finished FIFTH in the FS even with such a poor performance. And I guess you forgot that Jason BEAT Ten at Skate America.

I love Menshov, but he has underperformed in the FS. He gets the quads but then pops other jumps.

I think Nguyen has done well, but he should not get high PCS because he can land jumps. It doesn't take a brain scientist to see that there are things he still needs to work on.

I admire Misha Ge and his improvements and good that he has done clean programs, but at Rostelecom, he was behind Jason in the FS because of a TIME DEDUCTION from that prolonged ending. And zayaking in China. Not making these little errors would have helped him score more. (That said, he probably should have medaled in China anyway and had enough to make GPF)

Jason hasn't been perfect this season, but neither has any of the men. Murakami barely broke 200 total points at the U.S. International Figure Skating Clasic earlier this season. (Which makes his win even more exciting.) Mura scored 175 at one competition and didn't even break 150 in the FS here?

And Jason's performance at Rostelecom would have medaled in Canada, China and NHK (and would have been close to the podium at TEB) and that was with second-group PCS in the FS.

Jason was close to making the GPF because everyone else has also been inconsistent: Denis Ten would have made it even with just a second place at TEB (2nd and 4th). Brezina was seventh in Skate Canada before getting bronze at Rostelecom. Max Aaron had the same result but in reverse -- medaled at Skate Canada seventh in Rostelecom. Richard Dornbush got bronze then fell to seventh at Trophee Eric Bompard. Javier Fernandez's FS in Canada was lower than Jason's in Rostelecom.

 

[Alba]

I agree with Mrs. P :thumbsup:

 

[Alex D]

Big payday for Frank Carroll. Both of single wins today are his students.

Very happy for him, success always proves who was right or wrong about certain things.

 

[Tavi...]

Ten? He basically had one great SP at Trophee Eric Bompard, and he wouldn't have even medaled there had it not been for Menshov's zayak. He finished FIFTH in the FS even with such a poor performance. And I guess you forgot that Jason BEAT Ten at Skate America.

I love Menshov, but he has underperformed in the FS. He gets the quads but then pops other jumps.

I think Nguyen has done well, but he should not get high PCS because he can land jumps. It doesn't take a brain scientist to see that there are things he still needs to work on.

I admire Misha Ge and his improvements and good that he has done clean programs, but at Rostelecom, he was behind Jason in the FS because of a TIME DEDUCTION from that prolonged ending. And zayaking in China. Not making these little errors would have helped him score more. (That said, he probably should have medaled in China anyway and had enough to make GPF)

Jason hasn't been perfect this season, but neither has any of the men. Murakami barely broke 200 total points at the U.S. International Figure Skating Clasic earlier this season. (Which makes his win even more exciting.) Mura scored 175 at one competition and didn't even break 150 in the FS here?

And Jason's performance at Rostelecom would have medaled in Canada, China and NHK (and would have been close to the podium at TEB) and that was with second-group PCS in the FS.

Jason was close to making the GPF because everyone else has also been inconsistent: Denis Ten would have made it even with just a second place at TEB (2nd and 4th). Brezina was seventh in Skate Canada before getting bronze at Rostelecom. Max Aaron had the same result but in reverse -- medaled at Skate Canada seventh in Rostelecom. Richard Dornbush got bronze then fell to seventh at Trophee Eric Bompard. Javier Fernandez's FS in Canada was lower than Jason's in Rostelecom.

Thanks Mrs P - you said it much better than I could.

 

[Jaana]

This was a surprisingly well judged freeskate-event, in my opinion. Feeling very happy that Hanyu, Mura and Voronov won their GPF slot.

As usually, so sorry for Abbott, but his freeskates tend to have problems... Anyway he would have needed to win here to go to GPF. WOW, Murakami was awesome to watch, congratulations for his first GP win!!!

 

[Jammers]

The Men have been underwhelming this season. It's almost like Sochi again but all season so far.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I'm still at the fact that if Jeremy had just done a 3Z, Jason Brown would be in the GPF and Yuzuru would be staying home.

None of them should even be in the conversation to make the GPF. Misha Ge easily earned his spot above them all.

 

[A.H.Black]

I had the chance to watch Murakami at the Salt Lake Classic in September. I was impress with him then even though the program wasn't anywhere near fully developed. I'm happy to see he was so successful here. Here's hoping he continues to have success.

 

[Blades of Passion]

big payday for frank carroll. Both of single wins today are his students.

very happy for him, success always proves who was right or wrong about certain things.

Can't tell if serious or not....hopefully not.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

None of them should even be in the conversation to make the GPF. Misha Ge easily earned his spot above them all.

Out of curiosity and an admited lack of knowledge of current men's SB scores I have a question. Would GPF be better if the highest season scores were used to determine who is in. Top 6 scores go and placements in events don't matter. Or would that lead to even more potential scoring inflations and judging shenanigans? Just thinking out loud TBH.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Out of curiosity and an admited lack of knowledge of current men's SB scores I have a question. Would GPF be better if the highest season scores were used to determine who is in. Top 6 scores go and placements in events don't matter.

It wouldn't really matter because the same people are overscored/underscored regardless.

But, yes, I feel it should be about overall score. This judging system is trying to give absolute scores, so it shouldn't matter WHERE someone skates. The size/reaction of a crowd can have an influence, but someone's score shouldn't fluctuate much for a performance regardless of exactly where it was skated.

 

[Mrs. P]

Out of curiosity and an admited lack of knowledge of current men's SB scores I have a question. Would GPF be better if the highest season scores were used to determine who is in. Top 6 scores go and placements in events don't matter. Or would that lead to even more potential scoring inflations and judging shenanigans? Just thinking out loud TBH.

FYI:

Here's the top six total scores (plus three alternates) in order:

Javier Fernandez 509.88
Tatsuki Machida 506.83
Takahiko Mura 490.25
Sergei Voronov 488.65
Maxim Kovutn 486.69
Jason Brown 469.73
--
Yuzuru Hanyu 467.35
Denis Ten 461.02
Konstantin Menshov 458.25


Now the issue with doing it on total score is that some judging panels are harsher than others. So for example, Cup of China was a relatively low scoring event. So you can have a situation that a winner of a GP might not qualify due to the scoring, which is why I think they do the placement tiebreaker. For example, despite being the only one winning both his events, Kovtun ranks 5th in total score.

I think BoP's issue is that Misha Ge was underscored at his events and had they scored him correctly he would in GPF.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

Hi Everyone!

I was on the Ladies thread last night with a lot of you and the mens' thread through Ross, but then I collapsed of exhaustion- it was 5 am here. I slept till 2 pm (!) then had errands to run but am now catching up on what happened in the mens' event and am so grateful for this board- you guys have provided a very thorough recap, interesting points of discussion and debate, great context and analysis, statistics (Mrs P is the best!), and more. I will now see if I can watch the event on Ice Network, but I feel like I have watched it already due to the fantastic comments on this board! Thank you! This Thanksgiving weekend, I am grateful for Golden Skate!

and I am so sad about Josh Farris and disappointed for Jeremy but thrilled that Murakami did so well, disappointed for Mura, delighted that Voronov was able to deliver that thing of beauty quad triple, sad that Hanyu still isn't back to form, elated that Balde had a great skate for him.

and although i wanted Jason to go to GPF, I think it may be a blessing in disguise for him as he will have more time to work on the quad and perfect his programs, get the bugs out, and prepare for Nationals.

Thanks Everyone!

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Come on, fess up.

Which of you enjoyed this weekend's British Eurosport commentary so much, that they went onto eBay and bought this item 3 hours ago???!!! :shocked:

Suffice to say, it wasn't me! (Although, I did buy 2 other items from the same seller).

CaroLiza_fan

 

[jimeonji]

I haven't really been participating in the competition threads throughout the senior grand prix but seeing Murakami win just made me so. happy. I woke up to a true shocker this morning, that's for sure. I think everyone did.

But seeing a skater who has had so little international success without much recognition from fans have the competition of his life and win right at home gives me some hope despite the GP being pretty awful. He very clearly went out of his way to pay a tribute to one of his favorite skaters - another Daisuke, but with the very well known name of Takahashi. He chose the same program music that Dai used in the 2005-2006 season, both the short and long respectively. Although he used a different movement of Rach 2 for his long, the costume color was very similar. He even styled his hair similarly. I was convinced that I was seeing a less confident version of Dai out there on the ice. I'm very grateful to him for doing this for Dai and also choosing programs of Dai's that are lesser known. I hope with all my heart that he has finally found it in himself to skate well and that it shows at nationals; he definitely has the potential to become better. He was the light of the competition for me. Good job, Dice!

(sorry if someone already outlined the similarities already but. yeah I'm happy)

 

[KwanIsALegend]

"Jeremy Abbott ‏@jeremyabbottpcf 8h8 hours ago
I am happy with myself tonight. I feel the strength growing in the changes we have made. I am more steady and balanced. Now back to work!"

SMH. :disapp:

 

[StitchMonkey]

"Jeremy Abbott ‏@jeremyabbottpcf 8h8 hours ago
I am happy with myself tonight. I feel the strength growing in the changes we have made. I am more steady and balanced. Now back to work!"

SMH. :disapp:

Yeah, not sure what he is all that happy about. He talks like his is 19 not 29. Well Nationals should be interesting.

 

[Alba]

Yeah, not sure what he is all that happy about. He talks like his is 19 not 29. Well Nationals should be interesting.

Maybe he was speaking about his SP. Is that the one they have made changes?

Come on, fess up.

Which of you enjoyed this weekend's British Eurosport commentary so much, that they went onto eBay and bought this item 3 hours ago???!!! :shocked:

Suffice to say, it wasn't me! (Although, I did buy 2 other items from the same seller).

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Icey]

Out of curiosity and an admited lack of knowledge of current men's SB scores I have a question. Would GPF be better if the highest season scores were used to determine who is in. Top 6 scores go and placements in events don't matter. Or would that lead to even more potential scoring inflations and judging shenanigans? Just thinking out loud TBH.

I have been thinking in recent days that the skaters with the 6 highest scores at the gp events should go to the finals. If that criteria were used, I wonder what the list would look like for this year. It would also give those who get only one assignment the chance to make the finals. Imo anyone who participates in the series should have a fair chance of going to the finals and that is not the case with the way the event is structured with one event entrants.

 

[Icey]

How did someone who has been around as long as Abbott get that -1 deduction?