2014 Rostelecom Cup Short Dance 11/14

[flutz16]

You are using words without even knowing what they mean

I suggest some people see past the vitriol spewed at Nikita and Vika, and should not cloud from getting proper judgement
what S/K have shown so far they have very good basics, form and can go a long way.

 

[dorispulaski]

Look at D/W and Charlie's frequent meltdowns before 2011,.

A meltdown is what happened to C&L following Luca's fall at CoC. The whole performance turns to trash.

During their senior career, Charlie had one real, completely epic meltdown, in the 2008 Cup of Russia OD.

But other than that, he never let a performance truly get away from him. That doesn't mean he made no mistakes.

He caught his skate in a rut in the OD in a transitional section at Cup of Russia in 2011, which the team won, exactly because Charlie recovered quickly rather than melting down. Other than that, the closest thing he had to another meltdown, was an asthma problem at altitude at 4CC's in Colorado Springs 2012, where D&W finished second to V&M, and no, Charlie did not fall there.

I would hardly call that frequent, despite what Nicky and Simon would say. I think they never got over the spectacle of Charlie falling 3 times in the 2008 CoR OD.

 

[shine]

You are using words without even knowing what they mean

That's what I thought too.

 

[flutz16]

@ thinking Zhiganshin has better technique than Katsalapov
that's huge sarcasm right there

 

[Snow63]

More than 1 day till the start of the event and the thread already have 7 pages
This thread will be hot mess after short dance

 

[Snow63]

So we have a video, I was looking forward to see the whole program or at least excerpts, so I was disappointed. Like usual I expected a possibility to see all things and make an opinion, instead of it we got just a “tactic game“.

Zueva asked not to make a video, but this short report was made. Parts of S&K’s skating were really chosen carefully.

According the video, Zueva asked not to make a video of their FULL FD. I wonder why. Probably because she didn't want 'bad' parts of it on one of the russian federal channels? And I bet she have chosen what parts of the FD to show on TV herself.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I would hardly call that frequent, despite what Nicky and Simon would say. I think they never got over the spectacle of Charlie falling 3 times in the 2008 CoR OD.

I remember that... it was awful. I thought Charlie's skates had come undone or something. Oh well, they rolled with that punch and rocked it afterwards.

 

[elif]

2. Second lift was shown in a part when Vika already kept position of Davis & White similar lift. Once again Vika’s position looks very well and the lift is difficult, but Nikita is once again not sure – his free leg is moving up and down. Why we didn’t see whole element – entry of the lift? Was it by chance or the entry and coming into the position was not so good to be showed?

In first lift Victoria did difficult entry so if they plan to use both lifts in free dance, he should begin lift with one foot/spread eagle for level4. -If ISU hasn't changed the rules-

More than 1 day till the start of the event and the thread already have 7 pages
This thread will be hot mess after short dance

Can't agree more

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

More than 1 day till the start of the event and the thread already have 7 pages
This thread will be hot mess after short dance

Totally. The predictions game is a mess. I can only imagine how furious the 3 Russian teams are politicking before this event. They must be incredibly stressed.

 

[dorispulaski]

I remember that... it was awful. I thought Charlie's skates had come undone or something. Oh well, they rolled with that punch and rocked it afterwards.

They did!
They skated my favorite performance to Samson & Delilah to pull up to 3rd overall from second to last in the OD.

 

[sisinka]

I am not good ad judging prime levels but

1 they skate closer but look how their step sequence in close hand, its really slow, level 1 slow

2 because they dont ? they skate faster in the first half then lost steam at the end. maybe because this programs is unpolished or they need more time but definitely was not faster in step sequences, second half must have been level 1 or 2

3 the twizzles werent faster, they looked much the same as I/K, though I/K messed up twizzles when they successfully completed it, they got better GOEs on their twizzle sets

1. Step Sequences in FD are done in closed holds and open holds - I&Z are doing first 7 seconds in close holds – Killian and then Waltz hold – they are glading beautifully, then they are changing hand in hand hold with another close holds. All their Step Sequences were Level 3 which means that most of their turns (executed by both of them) had proper edges and were done properly.

2. Levels are not because of speed. Every couple has the beginning of the Step Sequences faster and they are all loosing speed towards the end…but I persist on the fact that I&Z were faster and they were definitely waiting for each other like I&K were.

3. I didn’t talk about the speed but about ice coverage which was better in case of I&Z. But I agree that GOE was really low, but it was judges mistake, I&Z’s Twizzles deserved much higher GOE.

 

[sisinka]

during S/Z partnership. Zhiganshin had the weaker edges and skating skills,
Victoria may not have bent much her knees but she still had better edges.

Lena & Vika & Ruslan – knees and edges – you can see that they are all in deep knees and having deep edges…

 

[sisinka]

I suggest some people see past the vitriol spewed at Nikita and Vika, and should not cloud from getting proper judgement
what S/K have shown so far they have very good basics, form and can go a long way.

Good basics together? Those can be seen while doing edge work, S&K didn't do an edge work during the video.

If you mean good basics with previous partners - I agree - Lena & Vika & Nikita & Ruslan are four of six best technicians the skating world has right now (together with Bobrova & Soloviev) - Vika would be on the sixth place because her knee action was more stiff - but we don't know how it is now.

 

[bramweld]

@ thinking Zhiganshin has better technique than Katsalapov
that's huge sarcasm right there

Katsalapov is more showy, freer more confident. But Ruslan has great control over his edges. How could you do the twizzles that they did so securely without. Even in gala they were strong if not in unison. All Ruslan needs is experience. He doesn't need to clone Katsalapov to be considered good. Got it!

 

[sisinka]

According the video, Zueva asked not to make a video of their FULL FD. I wonder why. Probably because she didn't want 'bad' parts of it on one of the russian federal channels? And I bet she have chosen what parts of the FD to show on TV herself.

In case that one of reporters would do "home video" and put it on YouTube channel, than we would seen whole program with all elements which could be done greatly or couldn't be done greatly. Skating full program at practise and show some mistakes would give bad opinion about the couple (that is why all couples don't skate whole programs at officials practises, they don't want to risk a mistake). From home video all couples look slower than normally, so it would immediately killed Zueva's idea to create the fastest couple on the world. And to compare home video with the video which was done by TV - in case of not clean execution of whole program - it would destroy the whole image Zueva creates for the couple.

 

[Alba]

By who ? Gorshov hates her. He'd rather back Igor and is pretty open about it.
All the pairs coach hates her, because of what she did to a much more respected coach at the time.
I still remember how Tarassova talked about her, no respect either.

Who loves her there ? Really ?

Well, it's not that I have information from inside but that's my impression.
When they speak about her they all sounds like she has somekind of magic recipe.
I don't agree with that, but my impression is that Russia hasn't been successful for a while now and they think it's Zueva who brought the success in NA.
Therefore she can do it with anybody. Don't know what Tarasova talked about her but she sure has changed the music since.
She was speaking about Zueva like she was the godess of ID lately.

 

[Alba]

who you keep calling, and its a fan perspective she is the best female ID out there.
its not a fact.

That's a fact not an opinion. Whether you like it or not.

 

[gmyers]

They had three seasons of improving. They turned senior after one year of juniors, they made a good start getting 4th at their 1st Euros, medalling every year after that, some good GP results and some not so good, but do you really expect everyone to be a model of consistency, especially at their age? Look at D/W and Charlie's frequent meltdowns before 2011, or P/B who never seems to be able to get rid of their silly mistakes. But by Sochi everything had come together for I/K, they looked like different skaters from what they had done in previous seasons. The programs weren't perfect, but even when they had rubbish like Ghost, they could sell it as no other team could like at Euros 2013. What did people expect, for them to be challenging for a world medal from their first senior year and after really only 2.5 years of skating together? Ice dance takes time more than any other discipline. Look at the years before V/M - you rarely saw champions younger than their mid twenties, certainly not teenagers like Elena because the judges value maturity as well as the technical solidity that comes with skating with the same person for many seasons. In a sense, V/M were lucky that a void had been created at the top of ice dance through injury to the older teams that allowed them to have their success so young in Vancouver.

The important things was that they were progressing, go back and look at interviews from the last season and a half together, and you will see even Nikita who was apparently oh so unhappy saying that they were understanding each other better and better, and feeling more like a team every time they competed, she was the perfect partner for him etc etc and up until Worlds it seemed they were really supporting each other as a partnership. Everything was coming together, and the years working as a team were paying off. Lena said the training after Sochi was like flying, it felt so good. It's such a shame that he has thrown that away, there have been so many champion teams that didn't get on brilliantly like Grishuk/Platov and Marina/Gwendal and still stuck it out because it was the best thing for their careers. Was the situation really harder for him than for Usova/Zhulin who stuck together for their chance at Olympic gold even when their marriage had fallen apart? I don't think either of them will be back to the level they were in Sochi by 2018 with their new partners, and it is such as waste of two great talents.

It wasn't 3 seasons of improvement. They didn't even medal at NHK 2013! Then they beat p/b at teb. They almost won euros in 2013 and was 16th in Tes in the fd at London worlds. They were a complete and total mess every year they were in seniors and in 2014 it was the same thing. Lose euros do great at Olympics and then bomb worlds sd. Together they were always a mess and a wreck and I was beyond thrilled when they ended their dysfunctional relationship. They could have been like shibutani's and won worlds bronze in 2011 and won coc shibutani's did and then in 2013 worlds they fell behind shibutani's again. There was absolutely no continuous improvement in any way.

I just think to believe that sochi was a turning point and they never would have lost again isn't shown by the facts of their wild and insane inconsistency! It was just bizarre and unprecedented so hey can be 16th in Tes not medal at a gp almost win euros not make GPfs bomb SDs and on and on! The whole thing with g/p and u/z is that their wrecks of personal lives didn't ruin them at medaling or winning events. I/k was so dysfunctional they might not medal at gp events this year if they were still together. I would predict them to but wouldn't be surprised if they didn't medal.

 

[flutz16]

That's a fact not an opinion. Whether you like it or not.

its not a fact if it doesnt have universal truth.
one could jusy say V/M are the greatest ID in history, and still wouldn't be a fact

 

[bramweld]

its not a fact if it doesnt have universal truth.
one could jusy say V/M are the greatest ID in history, and still wouldn't be a fact

Give it a rest it isn't even Thursday yet. At which point you'll be saying S/K, the new face of ID , best team EVER!!! Oh boy...it just goes on and on.....like a dripping faucet...