2014 Skate Canada Ladies FS 11/01

[aftertherain]

as Mrs. p has pointed out, Yulia won SA last year with 60 PCS. And she buit reputation from that on.

*cough* You neglected to mention that she also said: "She did had an odd and huge rise after that."

She startled thousands of people with awe and astonishment, people who could not care less about FS before seeing her. I myself can rewatch her SL again and again. Please, keep Yulia out of it.

Satoko surprised thousands of people at Japan Open. I'm fairly certain most of them did not come to see her.

I can watch Satoko's "Miss Saigon" program again and again.

Why should we keep Yulia out of it when she can be considered, in some ways, a good comparison to Satoko? I think we should keep Yulia out of it only when posters get genuinely nasty.

 

[Mrs. P]

*cough* You neglected to mention that she also said: "She did had an odd and huge rise after that."

Yes. She actually had HIGHER PCS at Rostelecom Cup where she skate a VERY subpar program and her Sochi program, which had huge mistakes were the highest.

 

[bmcc102]

For what it's worth, I LIKE Satoko. I don't agree with Johnny that she looks juniorish. I actually think Anna is the one who looks sloppy, unrefined, and juniorish. Although I should add that I don't generally like the Russian style of skating for ladies singles.

I saw Satoko shows moments where she waits and adds tension to her movements. She has appropriate facial expression and uses it well. She does NOT have too many arm movements, unlike Anna and many of the other ladies.

Just my opinion!

 

[Ophelia]

After FS, I have to say that despite Anna and Satoko are both 16 years old, the difference between them on ice is incredible huge. Anna looks like young lady while Satoko is still very talented child and her skating still makes impression of a junior skater. Anna's perfomance on ice is quite expressive, she feels the music and follows it in every step and every movement. Her jumps and even spins are matching musical structure perfectly: check 3Lz-3T and 3Lo-Lo-3S combinations for example where each of four jumps is stressed by music, or her combo spin where EVERY change of position and variation perfectly fits the music. Or, finally, her rich step sequence that expresses so well an emptional part of a music. This is not just a great job of choreographer, this requires also significant skills of skater to listen and follow the music and express it on ice. This time Anna's FS left really great impression from this point of view.

:scratch: When I watch them back to back, I notice how much more refined and mature Satako's movements are in comparison to Anna's, and how in tune she is with the music. She reminds me a bit of a young Asada.

Can people who are saying Pogo has good jump technique explain why they think so? I don't understand if I'm evaluating jump technique by a different set of standards. Besides Pogo's height on her jumps, I find her entry (wrenching her back into the jump), exit (hunched over body), and flow subpar.

 

[Meoima]

Yes. She actually had HIGHER PCS at Rostelecom Cup where she skate a VERY subpar program and her Sochi program, which had huge mistakes were the highest.

so was she the only one who benefited from the raise of PCS during Olympic season?

One guy's opinion. Johnny Weir just commented that he feels Satoko skates a bit like a junior and her skating needs more presence. He felt she was a bit "subdued."

I agree with Johnny.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

oops...deleted my comment instead of editing it

Anyway.....why are we discussing Yulia here. She doesn't skate until next week.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I wonder if Ashley took out the lutz because she is working on her edge? That would explain the edge calls on her flips this competition she has never received before.
Either way, if she can get the lutz edge to a point where they only call it as an ! that would really help her. Then she could add back in the 3Lo+2A combo and the 3F+2T+2T.
I actually didn't mind her watered down content here - she needed to get her confidence back after that disaster at JO. However, it will be a problem if we don't see her add the lutz back in this fall.

I think it's too big of a risk to depend on the tech specialist to not give her anything worse than a !

It's so weird how she gets edge calls on both her flip and lutz. IMO, it's smart of her to just go with a solid 2A.

As we saw with Anna's FS, an "e" call basically nullifies a clean 3F or 3Z to worse than that of a clean 2A, and obviously a 2A is easier to execute than a 3F(e) or a 3Z(e).

I doubt we will see very many 130+ programs because of the new edge call rules and especially not if there are strict tech callers for URs.

I'm really curious as to what edge calls Lip will or won't receive next week and I actually think it might cost her the victory if Edmunds goes clean.

 

[Mrs. P]

so was she the only one who benefited from the raise of PCS during Olympic season?

Didn't say that. Just making an observation regarding Yulia's personal PCS trajectory, in reference to my earlier post.

oops...deleted my comment instead of editing it

Anyway.....why are we discussing Yulia here. She doesn't skate until next week.

I brought Yulia into the discussion to simply point out she won with a relatively low PCS at Skate Canada last year.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes. (Yulia) actually had HIGHER PCS at Rostelecom Cup where she skate a VERY subpar program and her Sochi program, which had huge mistakes were the highest.

Not just higher PCS, a personal best PCS at Rostelecom.

 

[Snow63]

As far as artistry is concerned, only Julia and Adelina are slightly better than Satoko in that department. Satoko is certainly far far ahead of Elena, Pogo, Tuk, Gracie, or Ashley. Her only weakness is the lack of "big jumps", and because that, she's been harshly and unfairly judged so far. However, I hope judges come to senses soon and face the truth. Satoko has the combined grace of Yukina Ota and Shizuka Arakawa, and she is a very very special young lady. Call me crazy, but I think she has even better artistry than Mao or Yuna for that matter. I hope and believe that Satoko can grow up to be as artistic as Carolina at her best.

That's your opinion. But some people (including judges) have different opinion. Nothing bad about it, everyone can believe whatever they want.

 

[bmcc102]

Also, Anna's last spin was awful. The layback position was ugly, the catch-foot was good, but the biellmann was poorly positioned and TRAVELED. Ugh.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

As far as artistry is concerned, only Julia and Adelina are slightly better than Satoko in that department. Satoko is certainly far far ahead of Elena, Pogo, Tuk, Gracie, or Ashley. Her only weakness is the lack of "big jumps", and because that, she's been harshly and unfairly judged so far. However, I hope judges come to senses soon and face the truth. Satoko has the combined grace of Yukina Ota and Shizuka Arakawa, and she is a very very special young lady. Call me crazy, but I think she has even better artistry than Mao or Yuna for that matter. I hope and believe that Satoko can grow up to be as artistic as Carolina at her best or even better than her

Satoko being far far ahead of Ashley? Maybe in terms of skating skills and transitions, but actual interpretation and expression easily goes to Wagner. Which is fine, because Satoko is still very young and that comes with time.

I don't agree that Satoko is "subdued", but I do think that her performance isn't an "outward" performance, if that makes sense. She's very focused and while she has tension in the right parts and a certain elegance about her, she just lacks that ice presence that the others have. She's still one of my favourite skaters to watch though, and she has a lovely LP and good musicality. It's too bad that her jumps are always on the fence (at this point), because I think she could otherwise rack up a lot more GOE and a lot less URs and really be a contender.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Not just higher PCS, a personal best PCS at Rostelecom.

And Caro at the WC's? This isn't about one skater at all. The ISU drove up scores for the olympics and subsequently the WC's and we still see a carry over today. It's very obvious and people use it to attack individuals. This sport needs comrade and fast. I see other niche sports like snowboarding and everyone roots each other on and wants the best to win for the good of the sport. Here people pick heritage,culture, and personal preference and proceed to launch insults via cut/copy/paste techniques against anything they don't like all the while not understanding the diversity of the sport and even it's judges.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Also, Anna's last spin was awful. The layback position was ugly, the catch-foot was good, but the biellmann was poorly positioned and TRAVELED. Ugh.

Agreed. I can't believe most judges gave her +2's for that. Her spins in general need a lot more control and refinement.

 

[Meoima]

Not just higher PCS, a personal best PCS at Rostelecom.

And Satoko got a huge score at JO just last month. Like PChiddy won Sc 2011 or 10 I don't remember which. It's the same every where. I have a feeling Satoko will get a new personal best PCS at NHK at the end of this month. As NMURA stated to me, Satoko might even win over Adelina in Japan.

But let's forget it for a while, because Anna Pogo won over Satoko and Ashley in Skate Canada. As Canada has no contender in the ladies event, I don't see the point of underscore any particular lady or over-score any particular lady due to politics.
Not to mention the fact that Anna Pogo is just Russian no.4 at the moment.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

And Caro at the WC's? This isn't about one skater at all. The ISU drove up scores for the olympics. It's very obvious and people use it to attack. This sport needs comrade and fast. I see other niche sports like snowboarding and everyone roots each other on and wants the best to win for the good of the sport. Here people pick heritage,culture, and personal preference and proceed to launch insults via cut/copy/paste techniques against anything they don't like all the while not understanding the diversity of the sport and even it's judges.

Oh, agreed. Caro's PCS personal best at WC was also atrocious judging (Anna really deserved the bronze). There were several examples last year, but the most grievous cases were at Rostelecom and Sochi.

 

[bmcc102]

I have no faith in the judges anymore. They mark down Ashley Wagner's second giant 3loop for being slightly underrotated (which you can barely see, even in slow motion), but give positive GOE to Anna's last horrible spin.

Unbelievable. What the heck?

 

[Mrs. P]

And Caro at the WC's? This isn't about one skater at all. The ISU drove up scores for the olympics and subsequently the WC's and we still see a carry over today. It's very obvious and people use it to attack individuals. This sport needs comrade and fast. I see other niche sports like snowboarding and everyone roots each other on and wants the best to win for the good of the sport. Here people pick heritage,culture, and personal preference and proceed to launch insults via cut/copy/paste techniques against anything they don't like all the while not understanding the diversity of the sport and even it's judges.

I would be careful to accuse people of being attackers. I don't think all posters here are that way. There are just a few people who are very vocal regarding their meme-like opinions of skaters. I think who you're talking about.

I think the majority of skaters simply have strong opinions regarding skating and skaters. People can and should express their opinions. I think we ought to understand there's diversity there too, as we saw regarding opinions on Satoko.

FWIW -- I didn't bring up Yulia to attack her--just to make some observations.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

As NMURA stated that to me, Satoko might even win iver Adelina in Japan.

But let's forget it for a while, because Anna Pogo won over Satoko and Ashley in Skate Canada. As Canada has not real contender in the ladies event, I don't see the point of underscore any particular lady o over-score any particular lady due to politics.

Well, not necessarily. I think all the ladies were critically marked... it doesn't look good when Mallet and Seguin end up last in the FS and even Chartrand was also hammered with UR calls (I though she easily cleared 100, but apparently not).

Also, if Satoko beats Adelina in NHK, that'll probably have more to do with Adelina bombing. Right now, Adelina's PCS will most likely not drop below 70 points in her FS (after having breached 74), so that's a huge advantage over Satoko. Satoko might however receive more leniency on her UR calls on home ice, like at the JO.

 

[aftertherain]

so was she the only one who benefited from the raise of PCS during Olympic season?

Let's be clear: This is not a question of WHO got a PCS boost (everyone), but who suddenly got a Very High PCS boost.

And before anyone puts any words in my mouth, I am not attacking Russian skaters. Feel free to browse my post history--I've never done that.

Also, I liked Julia's programs last year. I thought they showcased her strengths well.