2023 Skate Canada Women's Short Program | Page 19 | Golden Skate

2023 Skate Canada Women's Short Program

Joekaz

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Sakamoto quite lucky to be in the lead by 5 points. 75 a big, big score. Got lucky with a not clear edge call rather than a wrong edge call. It was an inside blade not flat.

The lutz landing looked on the quarter as well.
Kaori-3-Lz.jpg


Then blade assistance on the flip (1). As well as big underrotation(2).
Kaori-3F.jpg



Followed by the 3T also underrotated(3). None of it called and in fact 2s and 3s from the judges despite both jumps being well short.
Karoi-3T.jpg


Kim unlucky I thought not to be close or ahead of Kaori. The flip was a marginally flat edge but after everything else I saw the judges ignore they find fault with Kim for that. Kaori gets the same call for an actual inside edge on a lutz. This is just a marginally flat edge at worst for Kim. Kim had the more interesting program and she's more expressive too (that's just opinion is all it is not factual like the landings).

Something needs to be done because it's two weeks in a row now that the judges have been asleep and it's massively affecting results. It's completely unfair. It kills my enthusiasm for the sport. What should be a wonderful sport is mere sports entertainment when what I see clearly with my eyes sitting at home is not reflected on the scorecard. Components will always be subjective to an extent, but the least they could do is judge the landings correctly.

Last week Levito's problems with her landings were completely overlooked in the short (and Hendrickx to an extent), then Hendickx in the free nearly underrotated every jump but it was all ignored by the judges.

I could go through the Canada short program I'd be posting for hours. I made notes.

What can we do to help the judges? Do they need better technology? Is it an education issue? We need to get this corrected.

We have to get this right because Sakamoto is aiming the be the best of the last 50-60 years by three-peating world titles this year. The stakes will be high.

The judges need to be up to it.
Sorry to inform you, but skating is just as corrupt as ever. Look at the bright side. No one is going to think Kaori is the best of the last 50 years no matter what. Lol
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Sakamoto quite lucky to be in the lead by 5 points. 75 a big, big score. Got lucky with a not clear edge call rather than a wrong edge call. It was an inside blade not flat.

The lutz landing looked on the quarter as well.
Kaori-3-Lz.jpg


Then blade assistance on the flip (1). As well as big underrotation(2).
Kaori-3F.jpg



Followed by the 3T also underrotated(3). None of it called and in fact 2s and 3s from the judges despite both jumps being well short.
Karoi-3T.jpg


Kim unlucky I thought not to be close or ahead of Kaori. The flip was a marginally flat edge but after everything else I saw the judges ignore they find fault with Kim for that. Kaori gets the same call for an actual inside edge on a lutz. This is just a marginally flat edge at worst for Kim. Kim had the more interesting program and she's more expressive too (that's just opinion is all it is not factual like the landings).

Something needs to be done because it's two weeks in a row now that the judges have been asleep and it's massively affecting results. It's completely unfair. It kills my enthusiasm for the sport. What should be a wonderful sport is mere sports entertainment when what I see clearly with my eyes sitting at home is not reflected on the scorecard. Components will always be subjective to an extent, but the least they could do is judge the landings correctly.

Last week Levito's problems with her landings were completely overlooked in the short (and Hendrickx to an extent), then Hendickx in the free nearly underrotated every jump but it was all ignored by the judges.

I could go through the Canada short program I'd be posting for hours. I made notes.

What can we do to help the judges? Do they need better technology? Is it an education issue? We need to get this corrected.

We have to get this right because Sakamoto is aiming the be the best of the last 50-60 years by three-peating world titles this year. The stakes will be high. The judges need to be up to it.

yet I haven't seen you call out the judging of the Russian girls
I am very sorry when I am wrong here and apologize if that is so, but to me it looks like you just want to throw shade at the international top ladies
 

Skating91

Medalist
Joined
Sep 16, 2023
yet I haven't seen you call out the judging of the Russian girls
I am very sorry when I am wrong here and apologize if that is so, but to me it looks like you just want to throw shade at the international top ladies
There are threads to discuss Russian girls, but recently somewhere there was a triple axel performed underrotated and the judges missed it. It was a big story for the next week. It is always good to highlight these errors then the judging and sport will improve.
 
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TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
There are threads to discuss Russian girls, but recently somewhere there was a triple axel performed underrotated and the judges missed it. It was a big story for the next week. It is always good to highlight these errors then the judging and sport will improve.
Oh you sweet summer child........
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Im glad the youtube replay for Skate Canada is blocked in my country (Canada) :scratch2:

A true wonder the ISU is. Splendid organization.

Edit: same issue with American VPN, can anyone help? Whats going on?
This is not up to the ISU, but down to domestic broadcasters purchasing exclusive rights to competitions in certain regions (like CBC in Canada, and Peacock in the USA). I understand it's annoying for viewers, but without this money, there would simply be no elite skating anymore. Money does not fall from trees, and there are a lot of things that have to be paid - From competition organisation, over the accommodation of officials (judges & tech panel), to prize money.
 
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readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
I gave Chaeyoun 9s for composition and skating skills, Kaori got 7.75 and 8.75
I mean I agree Kaori got some lenient technical calls but you can’t think Kaori deserved a lower SS mark than Chaeyeon. That’s just not honest. The favorite always gets overscored, it used to be the Russians who were radically overscored. Now they have new favorites . But, Kaori’s SS are amazing let’s be real.
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Sakamoto quite lucky to be in the lead by 5 points. 75 a big, big score. Got lucky with a not clear edge call rather than a wrong edge call. It was an inside blade not flat.

The lutz landing looked on the quarter as well.
Kaori-3-Lz.jpg


Then blade assistance on the flip (1). As well as big underrotation(2).
Kaori-3F.jpg



Followed by the 3T also underrotated(3). None of it called and in fact 2s and 3s from the judges despite both jumps being well short.
Karoi-3T.jpg


Kim unlucky I thought not to be close or ahead of Kaori. The flip was a marginally flat edge but after everything else I saw the judges ignore they find fault with Kim for that. Kaori gets the same call for an actual inside edge on a lutz. This is just a marginally flat edge at worst for Kim. Kim had the more interesting program and she's more expressive too (that's just opinion is all it is not factual like the landings).

Something needs to be done because it's two weeks in a row now that the judges have been asleep and it's massively affecting results. It's completely unfair. It kills my enthusiasm for the sport. What should be a wonderful sport is mere sports entertainment when what I see clearly with my eyes sitting at home is not reflected on the scorecard. Components will always be subjective to an extent, but the least they could do is judge the landings correctly.

Last week Levito's problems with her landings were completely overlooked in the short (and Hendrickx to an extent), then Hendickx in the free nearly underrotated every jump but it was all ignored by the judges.

I could go through the Canada short program I'd be posting for hours. I made notes.

What can we do to help the judges? Do they need better technology? Is it an education issue? We need to get this corrected.

We have to get this right because Sakamoto is aiming the be the best of the last 50-60 years by three-peating world titles this year. The stakes will be high. The judges need to be up to it.
You have a really weird way of calling - 3Lz is definitely not on the quarter, though judges could apply a reduction in GOE for "Less than quarter missing (no sign)" just as the 3T is closer to q than <, though an < call would not be completely wrong either, it's right on the border - At least based on the screenshots you show here.

Chaeyeon's 3Lz was also landed on the quarter (not called), and her 3T and 3F are in the same situation as Kaori's 3Lz - No calls from the technical panel, but the judges could reduce the GOE for less than 1/4 missing rotation (if I look at the moment most of the weight is on the blade, as you seem to do here).

Technical panels are not the only ones of us blind to the technical faults of those who we deem to be the better skaters, but in contrast to them, we have unlimited time to actually look at every single jump for every single skater, and if we are going to talk about controversial tech calls, we really should use that fully. Whether it's "This was called and I don't understand why" or "This skater got much laxer calls" or "The tech panel must really hate Country X.". Look at all skaters, and look at their calls, not just at who you have the strongest feelings about. Because Kaori is far from the only skater to receive generous calls here, very far.
 
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Skating91

Medalist
Joined
Sep 16, 2023
I mean I agree Kaori got some lenient technical calls but you can’t think Kaori deserved a lower SS mark than Chaeyeon. That’s just not honest. The favorite always gets overscored, it used to be the Russians who were radically overscored. Now they have new favorites . But, Kaori’s SS are amazing let’s be real.
The overscoring we're seeing right now seems particularly egregious because the top skaters basically have the same technical content, whereas some of the past skaters may have had a base value a whopping 30 points higher across two programs compared to the best of the rest in 4th. If you skate clean and have a base value significantly higher than the opposition, then it's natural there will be significant margins of victory.

Similar to how Ilia destroyed Kevin last week. Ilia jumps clean and has a huge base value (like some girls of the past), Kevin doesn't jump clean and has a much lower base value to start with. So it was natural that Ilia was well ahead of Kevin.

Loena last week had a comfortable win despite one 3-3 in the free skate and numerous jumps heavily under rotated but none of them called. Levito had similar content more or less and executed better. She had better programs too. Loena has numerous 9s and 9.5s for components for her free skate. 9.5 for skating skills when almost every jump was under?

Kaori had a comfortable win despite the wrong edge on her lutz, multiple jumps underrotated, a program that is not one of her best. She's like 5 points off her personal best. The judges are missing a lot of errors and it's having a massive effect on results because of the closeness in the technical content. Whereas if the judges missed something with Ilia it would have made no difference at the end of the day he's so far of any other skater in the world.

I just hope it is resolved by worlds so Kaori can three-peat with no asterisk and take her place as the modern era GOAT.
 
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TallyT

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
I just hope it is resolved by worlds so Kaori can three-peat with no asterisk and take her place as the modern era GOAT.
It won't be resolved. The ISU has no intention of changing the system of rewarding favourites (which plenty of others have benefitted from, and others have suffered unfairly).

And in any case, who a GOAT or the GOATs are will be decided by who controls the narrative, which means different countries will crown different skaters as the real ones. I doubt it will be Kaori, much as I like her, she simply doesn't have Yuna's lustre, Mao's charisma or fan base in Japan, a heap of world records, or an OGM. She'll be much loved though, and rightly so.
 
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Dawn825

Medalist
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
I mean I agree Kaori got some lenient technical calls but you can’t think Kaori deserved a lower SS mark than Chaeyeon. That’s just not honest.
The most objective way I personally can judge skating skills is by looking at who does the most footwork (rockers, counters, S-steps and brackets). Chaeyoun did slightly more so she gets a slightly higher score. I find speed, flow, knee bend etc. harder to objectively assess, in so I don't in my rescore. It's not a perfect system but it is honest to my abilities.
 
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throw_triple_flip

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 7, 2023
Country
United-Kingdom
All the short programs except for the women are on dailymotion. So I'm watching this on the ISU youtube and Mark's habit of repeating inconsequential things to fill airtime, (e.g. Madeline Schizas saying "stupid") is driving me mad.

I think most of the commentators except for maybe Chris Howarth) struggle a bit on their own. They need company!
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Sakamoto is aiming the be the best of the last 50-60 years by three-peating world titles this year.
What?? What do you mean by best? Is this what people are thinking these days?

Is Kaori even the best skater right now?
 
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Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
I don't think there is a best at the minute, every contender is... not a strong contender. But Kaori is one of the best and a joy to watch. And let's not jinx her this early before Worlds, ice is slippery...
Yea, I agree. The international scene is pretty level right now at the top. I'm not hating on her at all, I'm just confused what he meant by the best of the last 50-60 years...? Seems a little bit random.

I'm guessing he meant something more specific but had unfortunate wording.
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
What?? What do you mean by best? Is this what people are thinking these days?
The last women's skater who won three World Championship titles back-to-back is Peggy Fleming - from 1966 to 1968. Michelle Kwan, Katarina Witt and Mao Asada have won 3+ World Championships each, but not in subsequent years

If Kaori wins this year, she'd thus become the first woman to do so back-to-back in 56 years.
 
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Skating91

Medalist
Joined
Sep 16, 2023
Yea, I agree. The international scene is pretty level right now at the top. I'm not hating on her at all, I'm just confused what he meant by the best of the last 50-60 years...? Seems a little bit random.

I'm guessing he meant something more specific but had unfortunate wording.
Three world titles in a row means complete dominance of her era. No-one else has achieved three in a row in decades. Sakamoto's technical content far superior than skaters 20-30 years ago too. #GOATamoto.
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Three world titles in a row means complete dominance of her era. No-one else has achieved three in a row in decades. Sakamoto's technical content far superior than skaters 20-30 years ago too. #GOATamoto.
What era? There is no era right now. What happened just a year ago at Olympics? You yourself said a Rus Grand Prix stage mops Skate America, meanwhile Yuna killed Russians for almost a decade and is effectively a 2x OGM. Also significantly more artistic and sophisticated. Sakamato has no emotional range, even her biggest fans admit this.
 
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Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
In an era with no Russians. Sorry but it has to be said man. Meanwhile Yuna killed Russians for almost a decade and effectively a 2x OGM. Also significantly more artistic and deep. Sakamato has no emotional range, even her biggest fans admit this.
Sorry, but beating the Russians in Yuna's era is definitely not what makes anyone (including her) a GOAT. Of the 6 WCh Yuna competed at, the highest placement for a Russian woman was 4th.

Her biggest competitors for most of her career were Mao Asada and Miki Ando, plus Carolina Kostner. And to be very honest, the one Russian who ended up beating her, probably shouldn't have. 🤷‍♀️
 
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