2015 Skate America Mens FS Oct 24

[Rissa]

I hate to be a pessimist, specially with Denis because I think he's such an engaging skater, but yeah, he got 0 points from this competition and now that he's said he's not even sure he'll compete at TEB we may have to wait until 4 CC to see him compete again. But if that's the case, he'll at least have enough time to recover from his injuries.

Oh, I didn't know he may withdraw from TEB. I suppose if his bombing at SA was due to injuries, it's logical, but still disappointing. And Misha Ge also had to withdraw from TEB. hwell: It'd be one person less to deafeat for Max Aaron, though. If Max finishes even in 5th at TEB, he'd have 22 points and that might be enough for him to qualify in the unpredictable Men's field.

Still, I have tickets for GPF and it breaks my heart that Denis won't be there. Because yeah, 0 points now means no go.

 

[Mrs. P]

Han still has a shot to make GPF. He is at COC next. He realistically could get silver (perhaps even win if Javier has a bad day) and a 2+4 could be enough depending on how the rest of the men do. Given how unpredictable the men are, I wouldn't write anyone off yet.

 

[Rissa]

Han still has a shot to make GPF. He is at COC next. He realistically could get silver (perhaps even win if Javier has a bad day) and a 2+4 could be enough depending on how the rest of the men do. Given how unpredictable the men are, I wouldn't write anyone off yet.

That's a very good point... Han Yan might pull off an Aaron for his home audience!

 

[caitie]

Re: Max's missing free program choreo, maybe he is going for the Hanyu strategy the past two seasons which seems to be maximize PCS in the short and hope the score carries over to the free, where TES takes over your whole focus.

 

[slider11]

It was nice to see Max and Jason relating on the podium with good comraderie. Shoma was disappointed, understandably, but remained respectful. Shoma is quite the jumper and brings that athletic exuberance to his skate. I liked it but his artistry is not my taste. I actually quite like Max's thoughtful skating - not the arm flailing, racing from one element to another. I thought the pauses hit the music and brought a presence to the skating and music. I think this simplicity will evolve to a more spohisticated expression but for the first major, I say well done, Max! For Jason - keep working on those jumps and let that beautiful artistry come through. I will be interesting to see what Adam Rippon brings to Skate Canada. Is Adam the grown-up version of Jason with finally a handle on jumps and great artistry?

Max and Jason so happy for each other on the podium. SMILE, Shoma!

The Max-bashing, in the meantime, is well underway, I see.

 

[whatif]

It is funny how some people who used to complain about "pausing and standing in the middle of routine" by some non-American skaters, now call it "thoughtful skating by Max Aaron".

 

[Khoai]

Haterade? How about Pot. Kettle. Black. Aren't you and Khoai doing the same with Shoma?

Because almost everyone ignores Mr. Uno's cheated 3A, toe axel and flat edge in the lutz. But they scream at the top of their lung for Mr. Aaron's PCS which is so much funny to see. Mr. Uno's TES is super generous. But tech panel did not call Miss Medvedeva's flutz so it seems like a general agreement to ignore all those hideous technique.

As long as the skaters you like are not getting the benefit, you scream that other skaters are getting too much. How much did Mr. Aaron get? His TES is rightful. He did not cheat any of his jumps. Choreography? There was. You simply refuse to see it because it does not match your taste.

 

[Rissa]

which seems to be maximize PCS in the short and hope the score carries over to the free

For that, he'd have to have a good short.

 

[matcha]

Jason Brown's programme is like one of those Oscar movies. The Danish Girl of Figure Skating.

Post of the year, right there.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Haterade? How about Pot. Kettle. Black. Aren't you and Khoai doing the same with Shoma?

I'm not a Shoma hater, and am in fact a huge fan. I said before, Aaron and Uno were BOTH overscored on PCS in the final segment and the final result should stand.

I also acknowledge Uno is a better skater with better programs than Aaron, but given that Uno fell in the SP and had shaky landings in the LP, and given Aaron had a perfect SP with 4-3, and an LP where his only error was a stepout on a 2A and he landed two excellent quads and triple axels, Aaron deserved the win.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Personal opinion here: I thought Denis's program was absolutely inspired in the second half. There was such command, attack, engagement in those breathtaking sequences that it was absolutely clear what a maestro Denis is. Denis makes up in those sequences for all the prior failures and if I were to rewatch somebody's program, it'd be Denis's, not Max's. I wouldn't score the program higher than Max's in general, but in PCS? I totally would. It wouldn't put him ahead of Max, but if Max got 82 for what he had put out, Denis more than earned those 77 PCS.

Difference of opinion then. Yes, the final step sequence was good, but the rest of the program he looked so lost and there were times I thought he was going to stop skating (must've been the hip injury). After his quad falls, it took him quite some time to recover and get back into the program. The second half was better but at that point, it was too little too late. It was quite awkward to watch, and one of Denis' worst performances IMO, even excluding the jump errors. :disapp:

 

[glorybox6]

Was in the arena all weekend (and registered here to join the discussion about it)!

I have to say, I was really struck by the overall somberness of the music most of the men chose for their free skates. Ross Miner's Queen medley, for example, used the saddest Freddie songs he could find, it seemed. And Han Yan's program relied so heavily on the "Kissing You" theme it just sapped the energy of the arena. Jason Brown definitely had the biggest reaction from the crowd, Max's program felt comparatively empty outside of the magnificent jumps. Shoma's program really connected with the audience, particularly given the mostly dreary surroundings.

All of that said, aside from Max's generous PCS, this event felt pretty fairly judged. Just wish these guys would mix it up a bit more!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Because almost everyone ignores Mr. Uno's cheated 3A, toe axel and flat edge in the lutz. But they scream at the top of their lung for Mr. Aaron's PCS which is so much funny to see. Mr. Uno's TES is super generous. But tech panel did not call Miss Medvedeva's flutz so it seems like a general agreement to ignore all those hideous technique.

As long as the skaters you like are not getting the benefit, you scream that other skaters are getting too much. How much did Mr. Aaron get? His TES is rightful. He did not cheat any of his jumps. Choreography? There was. You simply refuse to see it because it does not match your taste.

Here's where I'm going to disagree. I don't think Shoma's 3A was cheated (although I'm surprised he managed that landing and was able to go for the 3T), and his quads aren't toe axels in my opinion. He also has very nice, flowy landings (not so much in this FS), hence the GOE, and some tough second half content including that excellent 4T-2T and 2A+1L+3F (which was shaky but still worth a lot). So, arguably, his TES score is about where it should have been, and the tech specialist did acknowledge things like his footwork and final spin not being more than a level 2, so they were strict with him instead of just giving him level 4.

PCS-wise though, 84 was too high.

Although I suppose it's not the worst performance by a Japanese skater to have been awarded 84 PCS. :sarcasm:

 

[el henry]

Was in the arena all weekend (and registered here to join the discussion about it)!

I have to say, I was really struck by the overall somberness of the music most of the men chose for their free skates. Ross Miner's Queen medley, for example, used the saddest Freddie songs he could find, it seemed. And Han Yan's program relied so heavily on the "Kissing You" theme it just sapped the energy of the arena. Jason Brown definitely had the biggest reaction from the crowd, Max's program felt comparatively empty outside of the magnificent jumps. Shoma's program really connected with the audience, particularly given the mostly dreary surroundings.

All of that said, aside from Max's generous PCS, this event felt pretty fairly judged. Just wish these guys would mix it up a bit more!

Thanks glorybox for registering and for your opinions from seeing the skate live.

ITA about sad programs. I much prefer Jason's peppy SPs to the dramatic FSs. Of course, Jason then gets tons of flak about immaturity when he does it .... but I'm a woman whom the advertisers would call "mature" and if angsty sorrow is mature, well, I'll take immaturity.

 

[rain]

Difference of opinion then. Yes, the final step sequence was good, but the rest of the program he looked so lost and there were times I thought he was going to stop skating (must've been the hip injury). After his quad falls, it took him quite some time to recover and get back into the program. The second half was better but at that point, it was too little too late. It was quite awkward to watch, and one of Denis' worst performances IMO, even excluding the jump errors. :disapp:

I have to agree. Ten certainly attacked the second half more than the first, but after that first jump, on which he fell, I thought he was going to stop the music and leave the ice — you could see him think about it. I think it was pretty clear he should not be competing at this point.

 

[Rissa]

It was quite awkward to watch, and one of Denis' worst performances IMO, even excluding the jump errors. :disapp:

With that I will agree. Usually a skater gets up as fast as possible after a fall in order not to lose any of the program, but Denis was bit like, "What... oh I still have some program to do? Wait, where should I stand?" I was actually surprised that he managed to pull off those step sequences. The whole was quite schizoid, total apathy in the first half then total brilliance in the second.

I have to agree. Ten certainly attacked the second half more than the first, but after that first jump, on which he fell, I thought he was going to stop the music and leave the ice — you could see him think about it. I think it was pretty clear he should not be competing at this point.

Well summed-up. He probably was thinking of it, and only attacked when he decided against for good.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

With that I will agree. Usually a skater gets up as fast as possible after a fall in order not to lose any of the program, but Denis was bit like, "What... oh I still have some program to do? Wait, where should I stand?" I was actually surprised that he managed to pull off those step sequences. The whole was quite schizoid, total apathy in the first half then total brilliance in the second.

Agreed. Maybe at that point he was like, well, if the jumps aren't working and I'm definitely off the podium the least I can do it turn on the performance for the crowd. I think every skater has been there... they're having a bad day and so then they just try to engage the fans. Apathy was the right word though... it looked like he didn't want to continue but then decided to give it a go.

But honestly, when you miss both quads and both axels, and double a lutz and have shaky landings on your 3L and 2A, and are not bringing it for half your program, 77 is too high.

I hope he can bounce back from that though. I don't know why I continue to get emotionally invested in Denis every GP season, knowing that he consistently bombs his GPs and then turns it on for the major events.

 

[Jaana]

I really enjoyed watching the performances of Shoma Uno and Adian Pitkeev. I like skaters who have speed and flow in their skating. Anyway, this is early season and some skaters that did not succeed so well now, will surely perform differently at Worlds.

 

[Khoai]

Here's where I'm going to disagree. I don't think Shoma's 3A was cheated (although I'm surprised he managed that landing and was able to go for the 3T), and his quads aren't toe axels in my opinion. He also has very nice, flowy landings (not so much in this FS), hence the GOE, and some tough second half content including that excellent 4T-2T and 2A+1L+3F (which was shaky but still worth a lot). So, arguably, his TES score is about where it should have been, and the tech specialist did acknowledge things like his footwork and final spin not being more than a level 2, so they were strict with him instead of just giving him level 4.

PCS-wise though, 84 was too high.

Although I suppose it's not the worst performance by a Japanese skater to have been awarded 84 PCS. :sarcasm:

You gave Mr. Nguyen's toe axel, cheated 3A and a potential flutz some benefit of doubt so let's agree that I am more strict at this than you. PCS wise I have no comment. But for such 2 wonderful skate of Mr. Aaron with so much determination, under the pressure of skating last on home ice, and he delivered it, yet some people still think he does not deserve the win, so much double face. If their favorite could jump as well as Mr. Aaron, would they need to go for such length to complain.

But to be honest, Mr. Brown's PCS is really a mystery to me.

 

[qwertyskates]

Han still has a shot to make GPF. He is at COC next. He realistically could get silver (perhaps even win if Javier has a bad day) and a 2+4 could be enough depending on how the rest of the men do. Given how unpredictable the men are, I wouldn't write anyone off yet.

I hope you're both right, but Han has two horrible programs from Lori that he is obviously uncomfortable with! glorybox was right, it saps all energy from his brilliance like a black hole.

There are moments in Han's trajectory where he seems to me to be one of the best skaters I've ever seen, his technique, skating skills are satisfyingly textbook perfect without looking dry or contrived, they are seamlessly part of his fluid, natural being on ice. He is one with the ice, breathtaking jumps, great extension, grace and musicality when he hits his stride. Sadly, these moments are brief though brilliant.

In that he reminds me of Adam Rippon, though their styles are very different. When Rippon hits his stride and shows some consistency he is simply the most well-rounded American male skater out there, a combination of creativity, balletic grace, musicality, and technically excellent jumps.

Unfortunately, Han's programs by Lori don't seem to fit him so far. It could be that Lori is doing these moves and creating this artificial persona for him because Han had expressed admiration for Patrick Chan, and she is making Han mimick a younger Chan.

One of my favourite performances from Han where he seemed comfortable in his skin was the tango Adios Nonino, which makes me think that Jeff Buttle might be a better choreographer for Han than Lori. Buttle's Adios was of course to me one of the most amazing skates out there. His maturity, joy, sophistication, openness on ice I feel are qualities more suited to Han's persona than Patrick's.

As for Dennis, he seems too carried away by the dramatic "podium-worthy" music he has chosen and there are times when he couldn't get into the headspace for them and he faltered. He needs to dial down on the emotional level of his programs, do a Dai, and let his natural grace and brilliant technique shine through.