2015 Skate Canada Ladies Short Program

[GF2445]

The ISU is really out of their minds now. Not only the solo triple rule but spins too. Whether Polina did get the requirements or not, she still executed a good sit spin yet it receives exactly the same marks as Kaetlyn's flying camel spin which she fell on. I mean, seriously? Polina actually did the spin, and spins may not always be easy. The ISU should do something like "your butt has to be below the knee to receive level 3" or maybe "you need _____number of revolutions to receive level 3" instead of invalidating the whole spin just because ONE requirement was not met, whether the difference was big or small.

I guess it's possible they considered Polina to be too high in her position AND also didn't complete a certain number of revolutions for a single spin but they should still award her for actually spinning.

As sad and cruel as it is, it SP is a technical program. Meet the requirements or you pay.
It's cruel but this is top level competition. They did this because there was a feeling a couple of years ago that the IJS rewarded too much for errors (e.g. Patrick Chan- and 'inflation' as an example). Not so much anymore.

 

[TontoK]

As sad and cruel as it is, it SP is a technical program. Meet the requirements or you pay.
It's cruel but this is top level competition. They did this because there was a feeling a couple of years ago that the IJS rewarded too much for errors (e.g. Patrick Chan- and 'inflation' as an example). Not so much anymore.

I agree. You either deliver the elements, or you don't.

I'm not even bothered about Polina's TES or placement.

I am VERY pleased with the maturity and poise she's shown. I am ready to see more from her.

 

[GF2445]

Ashley has a huge lead! To make sense of this:

Ashley scored 70.73

Yuka Nagai 63.35
(Ashley has a 7.08 point cushion)
(Also if you take into account PCS- Ashley had 33.66 and Yuka 27.55- a 6.11 point difference. As PCS doubles in the free skate, assuming that what happens to day happens tomorrow the hypothetical difference between Ashley's PCS to Yuka's is 12.22

7.08+12.22=19.30 points Buffer


and what the heck Elizaveta 55.37 (PCS 31.06)
Ashley subtract Elizaveta =15.36
(Ashley's SP PCS - Elizavata's SP PCS) X 2 = 2.6 X 2= 5.20

15.36+5.20=20.56 points Buffer

 

[Baxel]

I'm with Randomfan. The skater, in this case Polina, executed a spin from start to finish. It was not a nothing. But it was actually less than nothing. It was a dash. This is more common in low levels. Little kids have no recognition at all for an element under these rules. That's not a good message.

Kaetlyn, whose skating I love, had that unfortunate dreadful fall on the entry to the flying spin. There was no element executed.

As a direct comparison between the two spins, it is a no brainer. Polina executed a spin, Kaetlyn didn't. Our eyes saw the truth of that. Yet the rules say Polina did not.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

wow....I've only seen Ashley's performance so far. That is one cheesy pizza if I may say so myself. Good for her for getting such a good score but if that is what mature skating looks like....then I'll take those juniorish skates that seem to have a lot more substance and seriousness to them. Don't get me wrong.....she delivered but I just don't know if it's what I would order especially without a super coupon. I still love you Ashley and the music is amazing IMO. Good luck in the FS.

You know, after seeing all the comments in this thread praising Ashley's programme, I was starting to think that I was weird for not liking it...

I'm in the same boat as you – it just wasn't my taste. (Although, the difference is that you liked the music, whereas I didn't).

And in case anybody starts protesting that I would say that because I am a fan of Liza and she didn't do so well, can I just add in a little context: I don't like either of Liza's programmes for this season.

And anyway, my previous comment about Ashley's programme was posted before Liza had her go:

Sorry Chris. You may love that programme, but I didn't.

For me, everything was wrong.

Now, I realise the dress is borrowed, so I won't comment about it. But the music was awful. And all the trying to draw your attention to her chest.

No. This isn't what figure skating is about.

I mightn't have been fussed on her in Nice, but I REALLY want Liza to put in a good performance now, just to blow Ashley out of the water!

COME ON LIZA!!!

CaroLiza_fan

So, thank you for agreeing! At least there are 2 of us weirdos out there!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[sabinfire]

So, thank you for agreeing! At least there are 2 of us weirdos out there!

Three weirdos.

 

[cptnhastings]

I just am catching up and I don't get the UR's for Polina at all. I paused on both of the supposed URs and didn't see them. I know I'm not a judge but they didn't even look 1/4. I understand the spin getting no value however.

I really think they should get someone to put out an essay about every score so I understand fully. LOL

 

[GF2445]

Just putting it out there. I really liked Ashley's SP.
Not weird at all to me.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Just putting it out there. I really liked Ashley's SP.
Not weird at all to me.

I think we've admitted that maybe we're the weird ones. But everytime one of my favorites has come out and delivered a more serious approach with what I consider to be more meaningful choreography and even more difficult choreography...it was met with people saying they wanted a more mature program. All I'm saying is if shaking your hips and shimmering your shoulders is more mature...I'm not so sure it's what I prefer. Mind you...I'm not going all PCS warrior and disputing her scores. Just saying...it's very cheesy IMO.

I would listen to the music unlike CaroLiza_fan and found that aspect quite refreshing. The interpretation seemed a bit simplistic and uninspiring to my taste though.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Just watch Polina's Mooniloght Sonata. Bravo!! That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Snow63]

Well, if people think Ashley deserved 70+ for this and Osmond almost 60 points (!!) for her skate with two falls... then Medvedeva definitely deserves her score too. And I'm not gonna mention another Russian skater with Samba SP.

 

[russell30]

Well, if people think Ashley deserved 70+ for this and Osmond almost 60 points (!!) for her skate with two falls... then Medvedeva definitely deserves her score too. And I'm not gonna mention another Russian skater with Samba SP.

ASHLEY definately deserved it, that was a great SP, choreography and music interpretation to die for (I even had Ashley at 75 to be honest!!), just needed a bit more zip on her axel jump and spins but it was all there!). Best SP this season, BUT I loved Kaetlyn too, boy she would have been close to 70 too if was not for her spin and axel. THAT COMBO!!! woof! and she commands your attention and loved Cyndi Lauper's version of La Vie En Rose - hope she did not injure herself, she could still get on the podium. Elizaveta well it seems training has been hard going this year but its very difficult to repeat that kinda of year she had last year almost winning everything!! I am sure she will come back in the Long!!. I thought Polina looked lovely out there too - certainly the best dress!!

 

[Rissa]

I found a tarot reader in the men's thread from someone who did surprisingly-accurate SP predictions. Here's the ladies' report. (Sorry, this is random. And I'm bored. )

Tursynbaeva: Knight of Wands: The essence of fire, such a great conflagration. One filled with vitality and passion for life. A sexy and exciting person, daring in their actions, cocky in their attitude, and utterly without fear. Absolute sincerity, coupled with violent emotions that swing wildly from one extreme to another. Boundless creativity and lust for a change of both pace and place. The rapid approach, or more likely departure, of something that sets your world ablaze. Often suggests travel or escape.

Olsson: Four of Swords (Truce), when reversed: Restlessness and mental disharmony. Deserting a struggle in progress. A temporary retreat from stress that turns into a permanent rout. A lack of vigilance that could lead to disaster.

Leonova: The Lovers: A caring and trusting relationship. Beauty and inner harmony. A decision calling for emotional control and faithfulness to spiritual values.

Mallet: King of Swords: The essence of air, such as a clear blue sky: A mature leader of unwavering ethics and indisputable authority. An incorruptible judge, whose devotion to the law cannot be swayed by emotion or material concerns. Perfect clarity of thought, directness of action, and eloquence of speech. One who, like a great general, inspires not love or devotion, but absolute trust and loyalty.

Daleman: Eight of Cups (Indolence): Losing interest in a matter deeply important to you. Being forced to abandon something in which you had invested great love and devotion. Seeking earthly, physical pleasures, to the exclusion of spiritual growth and emotional fulfillment. Emotional withdrawal and lethargy.

Tuktamysheva: Three of Wands (Virtue), when reversed: Pride and arrogance. Convincing oneself that the ends justify the means. A great act of betrayal set in motion. Sinking to the level of an opponent. The vain quest for glory and a personal spotlight. Charity or friendship offered with intent of material gain.

Helgesson: Nine of Cups (Happiness): Contentment and satisfaction in romance, friendship, or other relationships. Achieving your deepest desires and savoring beauty and sensual pleasures. A state of joy and abundance radiating fulfillment and bliss.

Edmunds: Nine of Pentacles (Gain), when reversed: Bad luck attending material affairs. Elitism and snobbishness. Lack discipline resulting in the erosion of security and stability. Contempt for the exact labors that brought one to a position of refinement. Dishonesty in financial matters.

Osmond: Temperance: Calm and restraint. Self-control, patience and tact in handling situations. The act of applying balanced spiritual and psychic forces to physical life.

Murakami: Death, when reversed: Stagnation or petrifaction. The refusal to let go of the past. Resistance to change because of fear.

Nagai: Ace of Swords: The seed of victory - perhaps as yet unseen. A challenge to be met and solved through the invocation of force. An opportunity to bring reason and intelligence to bear in the pursuit of justice and truth. An excessive power that must not be abused. May suggest new ideas or information that can reveal a solution to the problem at hand.

Wagner: Five of Cups (Disappointment): Suffering a loss and wishing for what might have been. Being crippled by sadness, grief, and vain regret. Indecision brought on by the feeling that you made the wrong choice. Ignoring what you still have. May suggest a broken relationship or tragedy. May also suggest a gift, inheritance, opportunity, partnership, or marriage, but one that falls below expectations.

I trust this site about as much as I trust how far I can throw my house, but it sounds interesting...

Randomness is random, but now I'll be biting my nails for Kanako because that stupid generator seems to think she'll mess up real bad.

 

[hurrah]

Basically agree with what everyone has been saying.
LOVE Ashley's new short. Can't believe she was that good cause she looked pretty bad at Japan Open. Horray for her!
And Liza... Wow. Do not expect her to do so well this season, but still, that was shocking. Is that really just mental block?? Posters here say that her puberty's over, but it really isn't. Girls are affected by body changes well into their 20's. Maybe she's still developing sideways. And why does she keep on wearing her old outfit??
And kind of shocked by Yuka's program as well. That dress is so, so similar to Mao's. Can't believe they didn't think to change the color at least. She did do well, though.
Kanako... oh, if she only had landed her 2-axel clean. She looks alot fitter, and her jumps have gotten a bit better. But that under-rotation call! If only she had been taught to jump properly when she was young. What a waste.
And Katelyn was great at first, but it seems like her ankle is quite injured. She doesn't seem to get any breaks, poor kid.

Looking forward to the free program!

 

[tulosai]

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015/10/30/156017544

In fifth with 56.85 points is Polina Edmonds, who was disappointed with her scores.
The judges gave her no points for her flying sit spin in her "Moonlight Sonata" routine, choreographed by Rudy Galindo.
"I'm very shocked," she said. "I personally thought it went really well. I did a great one in my warmup, and I did a very similar one in the performance. "

One thing I don't like about Polina is that she is always 'shocked' when things are called technically- flip !? Shocked! And so on... IMO it would be better to say something like 'at this point, I'm surprised and honestly don't understand why this call way made. However, we will be reviewing the video and going over this in detail to figure out how to prevent something similar from happening in the future'.

As she phrases it now it makes it sound like she's not the problem, the tech panel is (and in fact she once outright said that about her flip). It would be better IMO to acknowledge there is or at least very well might be a problem and say that you are going to work to find it and fix it, not just from a PR standpoint but from a practical one. Being shocked isn't going to help you get the points next time, and 'personally feeling it went very well' is totally irrelevant and actually a bad thing if something is getting invalidated since you didn't meet technical requirements.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

One thing I don't like about Ploina is that she is always 'shocked' when things are called technically- flip !? Shocked! And so on... IMO it would be better to say something like 'at this point, I'm surprised and honestly don't understand why this call way made. However, we will be reviewing the video and going over this in detail to figure out how to prevent something similar from happening in the future'.

As she phrases it now it makes it sound like she's not the problem, the tech panel is (and in fact she once outright said that about her flip). It would be better IMO to acknowledge there is or at least very well might be a problem and say that you are going to work to find it and fix it, not just from a PR standpoint but from a practical one. Being shocked isn't going to help you get the points next time, and 'personally feeling it went very well' is totally irrelevant and actually a bad thing if something is getting invalidated since you didn't meet technical requirements.

I totally agree. I said last night that surely there is a problem if the skater themselves can't feel there is potentially a risk of downgrades. She ended with a little smirk that seemed to say, "Take that. I nailed it" and then her face fell quicker than the TES box counter on the screen. She seemed to have no idea there was a potential risk and that surely is difficult to deal with for the future.

 

[satine]

Ashley's post-SP interview.

 

[Blades of Passion]

As sad and cruel as it is, it SP is a technical program. Meet the requirements or you pay.

Polina's spin would have received 0 points in the LP with this call as well. It wasn't just a SP issue. That spin never would have been scored as such under a more organic judging system, though. Nobody looks at that spin and goes "oh, yeah, this girl can't do a sit spin." She WAS low enough to meet the requirement in the first place! That's the dumb part here. She was only too high up during the change-of-edge portion, perhaps, because her butt goes up slightly when she does the change-of-edge feature. So at minimum the spin deserved a Level 3, she just loses credit for that position.

ASHLEY definately deserved it, that was a great SP, choreography and music interpretation to die for (I even had Ashley at 75 to be honest!!)

75? For that?

Her spins are average (and the combination spin should really only be getting called level 3, that position she does after the camel is not good enough), double axel was rather weak. The skating skills are not top-tier and it's especially noticeable in the footwork sequence. The choreography is fun but watch her feet, the turns are not so strong. The ending of the program is not very good either, she comes out of the spin and just kind of slouches into an ending pose. It doesn't fulfill the sexiness or pizzazz of the music/program.

I would have scored it as:

3Flip+3Toe, +1 GOE = 10.3 (the rotation on the 3Toe is still questionable as usual, but sure, let's give it to her)
FSSp4, +1 GOE = 3.5
CCoSp3, +1 GOE = 3.5 (position after camel is not good enough for level credit, ending of the spin could be stronger too)
2Axel, +.5 GOE = 3.88 (bonus section of SP, jump itself is nothing special, doesn't bend her knee on landing, will give minor bonus for transition)
3Loop, +1 GOE = 6.31 (good entrance, not her biggest jump though and the rotation was honestly squeaked out)
StSq3, +1 GOE = 3.8 (one judge gave her a +3, LOL. That judge needs to retire. With the quality of her edges and turns, +2's aren't warranted either.)
LSp4, +1 GOE = 3.2

SS = 7.75
TR = 8.25 (an improvement here, still could be more difficult and fluid)
PE = 8.5 (very committed performance, except for the ending and the double axel entrance)
CH = 8.0 (spins could be better, not all of the choreography is fully extended as it could be, a couple moves feel out of place)
IN = 8.25 (very good but not all of the elements are great with the music; the music is salsa but a few moves look more like vaudeville)

With the factored score for the program components, that would put her at a total of 67.09.

 

[GF2445]

Hey, She is using what she has to the max and she benefited that she was one of the only women who skated a clean short.
Though it should have no bearing on the result, she did create a moment for herself. And because of that, it would be natural for the judges to want to lift Ashley.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Three weirdos.

Four With added revelance because I'm not a frequent poster in the Liza fan feast?

Ashely's SP is somewhere between okay and good to me, but not more than that. I'm missing some more explosiveness, she's a little too controlled and composed for this music. With this, it's go big or go home, and Ashley is stuck in medium-sized for me.
I guess my main problem though really are her SS. She's mostly on both feet, which makes her range of movements quite limited, and her feet lack behind in power compared to the rest of her body movements. It's quite a shame, given she has a great audience connection and really gets into her performance.

I think you're being pessimistic. Ashley doesn't usually get mercy calls on her rotations b/c the judges know her rotation is dicey anyway. Seeing how this isn't Skate America or US nationals, I don't think there would be any reason for the judges to be lenient with her. Her jumps looked good to me...

We can't really determine if a call was right or not though on grounds of existing conspiracy theories or not, right? At the end, the technical panel might just have made an honest mistake - no hidden agendas or anything.
And that call can be called a mistake. IMO, the rotation is already questionable in real time, and if you look at it in slow motion, she's more than 90° short. I don't mind that much, as she's rightfully in the lead and the non-call didn't affect any standings (yet?). But don't be surprised if that exact same combo gets called next time again.