2015 Skate Canada Mens Free Skate

[chairmanmao]

Two things that stucked on my mind after watching Chan's performance. Inappropriate shirt and undeserved jump GOE's.

 

[OS]

No, not with Hanyu's way more difficult layout. Had Patrick accomplished the same with 3 quads and 2 3As then yes. As it stands, the gap is right given Hanyu's mistakes, although I would have given him a point or two more for more original choreo and more emotion.

In terms of emotion... i think it is not a case of more is better but whether it is appropriate to the music. I'd say Patrick delivered to the music intentions consistently through out the entire performance. While Hanyu is fragmented... great first 1minute, then middling 2nd half, hit some great positions, but wilting towards the end while managing to hit some highlights but not consistent yet.

I don't like this idea of because it is eastern program it naturally deserve some extra marks. It should depends on the quality of conceptual realisation. The decision making and delivery of the concept get marked. If everyone skate to Asian music except the one western guy skate to something like Lord of the rings, shouldn't automatically give him bonus points. I actually don't think the choreography is well rounded or unique enough for me to consider it outstanding vs his Romeo and Juliet v1. Seimei's musical structure is also ALOT easier to skate to, regular beat, slow section mid point to allow him to takes things a bit easier, manage stamina better, and thus much more easier t to execute choreographically. Layout is more element based and get rewarded under base value anyway.

 

[Rissa]

^^ Let's agree to disagree then. I'm definitely finding Hanyu's program more intresting and his emotion better conveyed whereas from Patrick I got nothing. So no, I don't think the gap should be bigger, in my opinion it should be smaller. ame on the execution: it's easier to skate easy program well, like Patrick did. Again, I don't think the gap should be bigger becase of that.

And btw, I'm not finding Hanyu's program more interesting because it's "eastern": if he had an original western, Incan, Egyptian or Martian program with well-choreographed moves and emotion, I would most likely find it interesting as well. In fact, the most eastern thing about it is the music. There are a couple of gestures that emphasize it, but most of the moves don't scream "eastern!" on their own. They're just really well put to the music.

 

[OS]

^^ Let's agree to disagree then. I'm definitely finding Hanyu's program more intresting and his emotion better conveyed whereas from Patrick I got nothing. So no, I don't think the gap should be bigger, in my opinion it should be smaller. Same on the execution: it's easier to skate easy program well, like Patrick did. Again, I don't think the gap should be bigger becase of that.

But that is just it. Seimei isn't a harder program to skate to... look the constant motions Patrick's movements requires to hit every note. Where as you can see from Seimei there are definitely down times.. and a much more giving piece of music.

 

[Meoima]

But that is just it. Seimei isn't a harder program to skate to... look the constant motions Patrick's movements requires to hit every note. Where as you can see from Seimei there are definitely down times.. and a much more giving piece of music.

Seimei has much harder transitions and entries before his jumps, more difficult spin.and Yuzuru's quads are landed on the drum beat.
Enough said.

 

[OS]

Seimei has much harder transitions and entries before his jumps, more difficult spin.and Yuzuru's quads are landed on the drum beat.
Enough said.

So that is GOEs, levels, not PCS. I do agree about the transition into jumps except for me a program is more than just about jumps. A jump should also be about how it set up and landed flow out onto the next movements. If it can seamless integrate with other choreographic movement with the music without obvious set up makes makes it more intricate and sophisticated way of delivering artistic realization and actually I'd argue is far harder to do than oh look here's an extra transition movement for the sake of some points, while elements get break down into segmentation and fragmentation rather than a consistent overall impression.

Clearly there's alot to be said.

 

[Rissa]

But that is just it. Seimei isn't a harder program to skate to...

You missed the part where I included the jumps layout into the difficulty and disagreed with you that it's only reflected in the BV. The bottom line is: if I take all the aspects of those programs, I don't think there should be any larger gap. Just accept the fact that people don't agree with you and move on.

 

[silverfoxes]

Yes. No matter how hard I try to like him, for me there is a key element missing from Chan's skating. When it comes to Hanyu and Javier Fernandez, for example, there is something about their performances which touch my soul. I even felt it with Dolensky's FP in this event because it was so superb - also Murakami, who was so fabulous. Chan just leaves me cold and I can't really explain it.

Agreed 100%. He may be the "best" on paper, but I feel nothing when I watch him, and never will. At the end of the day I guess emotional connection means a lot more to me than skating skills ever could. And just because the judges & some very prolific posters think he's great doesn't mean everyone else has to.

I'd like Murakami to get a new choreographer...he's like Han Yan for me: extremely likeable, not terribly consistent but great when he delivers, boring cheesefest Nichol programs.

 

[jenaj]

I finally saw Yuzuru's program. I must say, except for the errors, I liked it the best of the men's. Who choreographed it? If had to guess, David Wilson? Whoever, I think it will become a signature program for Yuzuru. Patrick deserved to win this event, but the next time he and Yuzuru meet, I predict it will be a lot closer, with advantage to Hanyu.

 

[Rissa]

Who choreographed it??

Shae-Lynn Bourne, the same as last year's Free.

 

[OS]

My problem with the Seimei choreography is this mid section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU-Rc3APuU

From 3 minute to 4 minute exactly... slow section with little actual choreography and just about setting 2 jump elements. He might as well skate to anything in the background. There's not enough unique variation in the choreography or delivery to reflect the music or mood change, therefore serve no purpose other than allow some slow time to manage stamina better. It looks too obvious and not nearly unique enough that it start to feel like an empty spot in an otherwise potentially interesting program. It started and ended well, but the 1 minute break of not much going other than 2 jumps really sticks out for me.

 

[andyjo24]

I like Yuzuru, but Seimei was just a jump routine to me. It was boring to be very honest.

I'm glad he's trying something different from Romeo & Juliet at least

 

[Meoima]

My problem with the Seimei choreography is this mid section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU-Rc3APuU

From 3 minute to 4 minute exactly... slow section with little actual choreography and just about setting 2 jump elements. He might as well skate to anything in the background. There's not enough unique variation in the choreography or delivery to reflect the music or mood change, therefore serve no purpose other than allow some slow time to manage stamina better. It looks too obvious and not nearly unique enough that it start to feel like an empty spot in an otherwise potentially interesting program. It started and ended well, but the 1 minute break of not much going other than 2 jumps really sticks out for me.

Lmao. why don't you count the amount of transitions among it? There's a quad combo and a 3A3T in it. So it's easy to you then.

 

[HanDomi]

And for me Hanyu program was most exciting out there

I think we should stop this discussion in this area becuase from many pages this disciussion looks

A: Chan was amazing, Hanyu was boring
B: Hanyu was amazing, Can was boring

....
C: ... Both were boring, Murakami was amazing

 

[Interspectator]

Murakami was holding back tears in his interview from the J media today. I felt such frustration for him. He has been doing so much better last year and this year but he's hitting a glass ceiling in scores...will he be able to break through? What can he do?

 

[Scrufflet]

^^
D. Chan and Hanyu were both amazing.

What a season ahead! Love watching these two warriors go back and forth!

 

[Hanmgse]

Murakami was holding back tears in his interview from the J media today. I felt such frustration for him. He has been doing so much better last year and this year but he's hitting a glass ceiling in scores...will he be able to break through? What can he do?

I felt really sad for him too. He did an amazing job.

 

[HanDomi]

ceiling in scores...will he be able to break through? What can he do?

I think that was good score for him on components, I have just some doubts on TES that layed down two quads and two triple axels and his tes was lower than Chan, or rather Chan higher than him.

 

[Violet Bliss]

And for me Hanyu program was most exciting out there

I think we should stop this discussion in this area becuase from many pages this disciussion looks

A: Chan was amazing, Hanyu was boring
B: Hanyu was amazing, Can was boring

....
C: ... Both were boring, Murakami was amazing

Let's just agree that this SC Men's LP competition is swoon-worthy and continue with the swoonfest.

 

[OS]

Lmao. why don't you count the amount of transitions among it? There's a quad combo and a 3A3T in it. So it's easy to you then.

Oh please i am not even talking about jump difficulty which Hanyu wins hands down, but i am talking about overall artistic impressions which factored into how PCS should be rewarded. And everything is relative.

That is more than 1 whole minute just for 2 jumps set up with not much going on. As a piece of choreography that is pretty a big empty spot for the sake of 2 elements out of 14 in a 4min30 seconds program. It is fine to agree choreography and artistic impressions did suffer at the expense of over emphasis on jump elements which is worth more according to COP anyway.

Anyway Eurosport commentaries are up, thanks to the uploader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X_cuYTmiTg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsYc4UG4FIQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9_zXHbWZ-Q [Mandarin]