2015 Skate Canada Mens Free Skate

[invisiblespiral]

Um... here's a blog post on SC: https://thefsrandomizer.wordpress.com/2015/11/01/highs-and-lows-skate-canada-2015/

(Most of the skaters in here are men, so that's why it's here.)

 

[yyyskate]

watch side-by-side Yuzuru and Patrick's FS, I have to see, Patrick's SS, his mastery of speed control and blade work is ahead of Yuzuru by a quite large margin. Also, patrick's jump has tremendous speed, power and attack as well. This FS outing is for me yet another masterful piece from Patrick. Thanks Patrick for giving us this present and for competing again.
Also for music interpretation, I also give the edge to Patrick, Yuzuru in this outing can hit some drum beat well but over-all, Patrick really interpreted the texture and undertone, and the underline fast tempo speed of this chopin music as well as the subtlety, through his pure skating! I cannot imagine what a treat it would be to watch this live.

 

[Meoima]

watch side-by-side Yuzuru and Patrick's FS, I have to see, Patrick's SS, his mastery of speed control and blade work is ahead of Yuzuru by a quite large margin. Also, patrick's jump has tremendous speed, power and attack as well. This FS outing is for me yet another masterful piece from Patrick. Thanks Patrick for giving us this present and for competing again.

You can only compare them that way when they do the same layout. You can't compare the speed of one guy who jumps 3 quads and 2 triple axels with numerous difficult transitions to a guy who only jumps 1 quad and 1 triple axel with less difficult entries into jumps, and let's not mention the difficulty of the spins. Obviously the guy who does lesser layout has more energy to skate faster. That's it, and that's not my words. I took it from my friend's coach who was there at Skate Canada.
And he said in the SP, their speed weren't much different at all.
If anything, I hope to see Patrick skates to the same layout as Yuzuru so we can have better understanding of how fast he can be with such a demanding program.

 

[yyyskate]

You can only compare them that way when they do the same layout. You can't compare the speed of one guy who jumps 3 quads and 2 triple axels with numerous difficult transitions to a guy who only jumps 1 quad and 1 triple axel with less difficult entries into jumps, and let's not mention the difficulty of the spins. Obviously the guy who does lesser layout has more energy to skate faster. That's it, and that's not my words. I took it from my friend's coach who was there at Skate Canada.
And he said in the SP, their speed weren't much different at all.
If anything, I hope to see Patrick skates to the same layout as Yuzuru so we can have better understanding of how fast he can be with such a demanding program.

^^ Yuzuru has effortless and efficient jump, he could utilized that to his advantage no doubt about that. He did more difficult jumps than Patrick for sure. But overall the in-between blade work quality and the difficulty and the mastery needed to pull it off, I still give Patrick the edge by a large margin. Sure, Patrick cannot pull-off a 3 quads 2 3A program, but Yuzuru also cannot skate like Patrick if he is only doing a quad and a 3A.

 

[yyyskate]

Patrick's mastery of skating skills and blade work is not only about speed. Honestly, to achieve his level, Yuzuru still got a long way to go. Patrick's blade work is still "second to none"!!

 

[Meoima]

^^ Yuzuru has effortless and efficient jump, he could utilized that to his advantage no doubt about that. He did more difficult jumps than Patrick for sure. But overall the in-between blade work quality and the difficulty and the mastery needed to pull it off, I still give Patrick the edge by a large margin. Sure, Patrick cannot pull-off a 3 quads 2 3A program, but Yuzuru also cannot skate like Patrick if he is only doing a quad and a 3A.

My friend and his coach at Skate Canada beg to differ.

 

[Leonardo]

Murakami was holding back tears in his interview from the J media today. I felt such frustration for him. He has been doing so much better last year and this year but he's hitting a glass ceiling in scores...will he be able to break through? What can he do?

Plan a better jumping layout. He's losing a lot of BV on that stupid 3lz-1lo-2s combination. He has to add -3lo or -3t to his combos. He also needs more speed, attack and artistic expression. But he's already great.

 

[4everchan]

You can only compare them that way when they do the same layout. You can't compare the speed of one guy who jumps 3 quads and 2 triple axels with numerous difficult transitions to a guy who only jumps 1 quad and 1 triple axel with less difficult entries into jumps, and let's not mention the difficulty of the spins. Obviously the guy who does lesser layout has more energy to skate faster. That's it, and that's not my words. I took it from my friend's coach who was there at Skate Canada.
And he said in the SP, their speed weren't much different at all.
If anything, I hope to see Patrick skates to the same layout as Yuzuru so we can have better understanding of how fast he can be with such a demanding program.

i don't think I can agree with your comment.
SP: Patrick admitted he was slow... hence the 3A mistake. He is usually faster... so comparing someone when he is not at his best, is not really holding up.

FP: layout.... how many time have we heard that word when talking about Yuzu....? many people get excited by the difficult content he puts in there... but actually, to me it looks like a swimmer who has to swim 200M and gives his all in the first 100... to hit a wall in the second half.... in figure skating, in this particular competition, we saw that there was little flow out of his jumps as opposed to some of the other times he has skated programs that are less demanding...
I am actually thinking that his layout is too difficult for his stamina.

Patrick is very aware of what kind of layout will allow him to get good quality jumps, flow and speed. For instance, he took out the 3Lz-L-3S combo he used to have which was often unsuccessful....

My point: it's not useful to mention layout when talking about speed, flow and quality. If Yuzu and his team are looking for higher scores in that department, they need to adjust, not to give an excuse....

I don't think it would be great to reward a skater for what he didn't do, no matter how great the rest of the performance was.

 

[Leonardo]

Comparing to Skate Canada, Skate America has much better scoring. :dumb:

yes!

 

[Violet Bliss]

My friend and his coach at Skate Canada beg to differ.

A panel of 9 judges definitively differed from your friend and his coach.

 

[yyyskate]

My friend and his coach at Skate Canada beg to differ.

Meoima, you seems to have many friends, always your friends said this or that, good for you. Well, I just have my own independent opinion Let's leave it like that.

 

[Meoima]

it's not useful to mention layout when talking about speed, flow and quality. If Yuzu and his team are looking for higher scores in that department, they need to adjust, not to give an excuse....

To me it's your remark sounds more like an excuse.
My friend's coach's remark is that, you can compare two skater's true ability when they're doing the same layout, same elements. Look at why ice coverage isn't included in Single skater criteria about SS but it's included in Ice dancer's criteria for SS. Because most skaters don't have the same layout.
Their routines are different, choreography are different too, the way they spend their energy are different. How are you so sure Patrick can remain as fast if he goes for 3 quads, 2 axel and various transitions?
The time they can compared somewhat is in the SP when they all have to follow some strict requirement according to the rule, not in the free skate because it's the FREE skate.
When you look at two different performances with vastly different style and huge different in layout and you keep saying: "A is better because he is faster etc" without any reasonable explanation, it's funny. The the issue is you keep going on and on about it without some double checks.

Meoima, you seems to have many friends, always your friends said this or that, good for you. Well, I just have my own independent opinion Let's leave it like that.

Send me your Facebook and I will send you their Facebook so you can talk to them, I am not kidding.

 

[Ophelia]

My problem with the Seimei choreography is this mid section

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU-Rc3APuU

From 3 minute to 4 minute exactly... slow section with little actual choreography and just about setting 2 jump elements. He might as well skate to anything in the background. There's not enough unique variation in the choreography or delivery to reflect the music or mood change, therefore serve no purpose other than allow some slow time to manage stamina better. It looks too obvious and not nearly unique enough that it start to feel like an empty spot in an otherwise potentially interesting program. It started and ended well, but the 1 minute break of not much going other than 2 jumps really sticks out for me.

It is a 3 quad, 2 axel program. He needs some down time in it.

 

[Jaana]

I loved the programmes of Chan and Hanyu, WOW!!! It felt though, that Chan was somewhat overscored in PCS, but the results were right.

About Rippon´s strong tan, I guess that he needs it, otherwise it would look like a headless man is skating, LOL. I would have put Nam a liiittle bit ahead of Rippon in total results.

 

[4everchan]

so let's have them do figures then... they will never have the same layout because they have different strengths. one prefers the 4T-3T the other prefers the 3A. let's compare their 3Lz then... oh wait that will upset you.

To me it's your remark sounds more like an excuse.
My friend's coach's remark is that, you can compare two skater's true ability when they're doing the same layout, same elements. Look at why ice coverage isn't included in Single skater criteria about SS but it's included in Ice dancer's criteria for SS. Because most skaters don't have the same layout.
Their routines are different, choreography are different too, the way they spend their energy are different. How are you so sure Patrick can remain as fast if he goes for 3 quads, 2 axel and various transitions?
The time they can compared somewhat is in the SP when they all have to follow some strict requirement according to the rule, not in the free skate because it's the FREE skate.
When you look at two different performances with vastly different style and huge different in layout and you keep saying: "A is better because he is faster etc" without any reasonable explanation, it's funny. The the issue is you keep going on and on about it without some double cheekinh.

Send me your Facebook and I will send you their Facebook so you can tall with them, I am not kidding.

and with all due respect to your friend and coach, that doesn't mean that they are owner of the truth.... who are the 9 judges who all thought the same yesterday in how to rate both programs? it was a clear win for Patrick.

 

[yyyskate]

To me it's your remark sounds more like an excuse.
My friend's coach's remark is that, you can compare two skater's true ability when they're doing the same layout, same elements. Look at why ice coverage isn't included in Single skater criteria about SS but it's included in Ice dancer's criteria for SS. Because most skaters don't have the same layout.
Their routines are different, choreography are different too, the way they spend their energy are different. How are you so sure Patrick can remain as fast if he goes for 3 quads, 2 axel and various transitions?
The only time they can compared somewhat is in the SP when they all have to follow some strict requirement according to the rule, not in the free skate because it's the FREE skate.


Send me your Facebook and I will send you their Facebook so you can tall with them, I am not kidding.

Thanks for the offer, but no need, I respect your friends' opinion, all the point your friends said as you listed above is valid, but I also have my own independ opinion, also watched lots of competition live and also communicate with many figure skating fans, I still think even skate to exact same program, Yuzuru does not have the blade work mastery as Patrick

 

[Mathman]

If Yuzu and his team are looking for higher scores in that department, they need to...

…land all the planned jumps. The component scores will follow of their own accord.

 

[OS]

It is a 3 quad, 2 axel program. He needs some down time in it.

As a result the choreography and artistic impression suffered, and thus should be reflect in the PCS marking.

In any case Hanyu skated better at practice I thought. Yesterday it felt a bit cautious from his usual attack skate the light out. Didn't have the spark when Hanyu is at his best.

I think skaters should be marked according what they did on the day, not what they ought to get in theory. For me at least Patrick was certainly more than 10% better in the PCS components, but his marks did not reflect this.

This is not to say it can not all change at their next match up, hopefully at GPF and WC (I live for this), once Hanyu get even more familiar with his program and polish all the moves more cohesively. There are sparks of brilliance but they are somewhat dimmer last night.

 

[Meoima]

In reply to

so let's have them do figures then... they will never have the same layout because they have different strengths. one prefers the 4T-3T the other prefers the 3A. let's compare their 3Lz then... oh wait that will upset you.
and with all due respect to your friend and coach, that doesn't mean that they are owner of the truth.... who are the 9 judges who all thought the same yesterday in how to rate both programs? it was a clear win for Patrick.

And:

Thanks for the offer, but no need, I respect your friends' opinion, all the point your friends said as you listed above is valid, but I also have my own independ opinion, also watched lots of competition live and also communicate with many figure skating fans, I still think even skate to exact same program, Yuzuru does not have the blade work mastery as Patrick

:gclap: as I have said there are more opinions than just repeating over and over again some old ideas without double checking the opinions of various people. I'm not saying who has better SS. But per my opinions (as I have taken it from other) it is not possible for you or for me to compare skaters with vastly different layouts and then give out something like a set in stone from digital screen. that's funny from you and your fellows. At least I always ask many people who have watched skaters live and look for fancam to get a closer valuation.

 

[Ophelia]

Chan's skating is exquisite and that really came through in yesterday's FS. His skating was polished to perfection. Quality wise, it really doesn't get much better than that. That being said, I can understand why he leaves some people cold. He's a virtuoso that you observe in a detached manner.

Hanyu's FS is so technically difficult that 1) I don't know if he'll skate it clean, and 2) I don't know if he'll skate it clean and hit A+ quality because it's 2x harder to achieve that kind of finish with that kind of layout. It's like trying to finish 100m relay in the fastest time possible while having to go through an obstacle course along the way.