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- Dec 25, 2012
Because her 2A is a problem jump already...she pops it sometimes.
2015 Worlds Ladies Free Skate March 28
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
Because her 2A is a problem jump already...she pops it sometimes.
os168
I totally agree with your point but I think that’s another story? GOE-3~+3 isn’t enough to separate great and average quality jumps. As for getting advantage due to representing powerhouse countries, I also agree but that’s really for almost every skater from USA, JPN, RUS etc. and that especially happens on skaters who have built strong reputation. I don’t think that’s fair either especially when they skate poorly like Gracie did in short program, they still get incredibly high score. This surely hurt the sport.
To explain my point more clearly, there are several parts that related to jump scoring but ppl mostly only care about height so when seeing Satoko’s low jumps get good scores overall, ppl start to find other reasons like political one to criticize her. Take Polina (or Rika) as example, she has good height on jumps, but the lack of rotation is glaring. Polina got gold in 4CC with some jumps def < or even << for me but judges just ignored it. (IMO, in 4CC, judges ignored almost all of them as long as skaters are from powerhouse countries. that’s “fair” for medal contenders but def not fair to skaters from the other countries. )most of ppl think she deserved it and they never suspected judges “helped” her to get gold. (Sorry for Polina’s fans but that’s the most recent example I can think of now) Rika has same problem. I saw her skate in person in Asian Trophy last summer(and took videos ) and also watched all her performances this season. She never rotates 3F-3T well enough. 3F always lack at least 180 degrees and judges in different competitions are inconsistent with it. Is that proper? Does any fan ever point out this confused situation? I think not and why?...
My guess is it’s mostly b/c she jumps high and that’s really disappointing.
I totally agree with your point but I think that’s another story? GOE-3~+3 isn’t enough to separate great and average quality jumps. As for getting advantage due to representing powerhouse countries, I also agree but that’s really for almost every skater from USA, JPN, RUS etc. and that especially happens on skaters who have built strong reputation. I don’t think that’s fair either especially when they skate poorly like Gracie did in short program, they still get incredibly high score. This surely hurt the sport.
To explain my point more clearly, there are several parts that related to jump scoring but ppl mostly only care about height so when seeing Satoko’s low jumps get good scores overall, ppl start to find other reasons like political one to criticize her. Take Polina (or Rika) as example, she has good height on jumps, but the lack of rotation is glaring. Polina got gold in 4CC with some jumps def < or even << for me but judges just ignored it. (IMO, in 4CC, judges ignored almost all of them as long as skaters are from powerhouse countries. that’s “fair” for medal contenders but def not fair to skaters from the other countries. )most of ppl think she deserved it and they never suspected judges “helped” her to get gold. (Sorry for Polina’s fans but that’s the most recent example I can think of now) Rika has same problem. I saw her skate in person in Asian Trophy last summer(and took videos ) and also watched all her performances this season. She never rotates 3F-3T well enough. 3F always lack at least 180 degrees and judges in different competitions are inconsistent with it. Is that proper? Does any fan ever point out this confused situation? I think not and why?...
My guess is it’s mostly b/c she jumps high and that’s really disappointing.
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- Dec 29, 2013
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^I made a video showing the edge call and UR that Rika got in the FS. Just like the one I made of Satoko from 4cc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXALcmZ2w5g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXALcmZ2w5g
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- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
Her UR is clear but I really feel like the lutz should have been !. Oh well :|
I just rewatched your video of Satokos flip from 4cc and I didn't recognize before that it looks as if she didn't use her left leg to jump at all. The knee-bend of her left leg doesn't change during take-off. And the flip in the free at worlds looks the same.
Well, but skaters/athletes are human, and it is extremely rare that anyone can be on all of the time. As consistent as Radionova has been technically, she has lost to Tukt this season too. And as has been reported, Radionova was battling illness at Worlds so she's lucky to have done enough in the fp to be on the podium. Seriously, going forward, it is entirely possible that Satoko Miyahara will actually beat Radionova again, and many other skaters too. No one is truly that much better in all aspects that things won't be shaken up on the podium for years to come among the ladies and the other disciplines. And it also remains to be seen how Radionova handles her growing phase throughout next season. It was a tough and unsettling process for Liza Tukt (she was lucky to have a coach like Mishin who believed in her and was able to help her rebuild her technique).
As usual though, the judges do tend to pick out favorites who they feel are consistent technically, or in Patrick Chan's case, someone with exceptional SS who then masters tech difficulty and becomes a huge judges' favorite and gets humongous scores even with many mistakes. Right now, Hanyu is in that category. Although clearly the judges decided they over-rewarded Hanyu in the sp, while short-changing Javi, so fortunately Javi was rewarded in the fp with his quads making the difference and he won overall (although Javi still needs to improve artistically). PCS for Radionova, Tukt and many other skaters are overly high, because PCS scores are mainly used to manipulate placements. On the men's side, the PCS for a number of skaters are way out of line.
@chuckm, ITA that there was pressure for Gracie and Ashley, as you said, a different kind of pressure. And as I said earlier, it all depends on how as an athlete you are able to handle every situation. @Alba, it simply is not that easy no matter what. It's about what the skaters' mindset is when they go out on the ice, whether they skate first, middle, or last under whatever circumstances. There is something to be said for always keeping the mindset of not over-thinking and just going out there and putting it on the line every time, but again that's easier said than done.
@karne, It will be interesting to see if Satoko continues to grow whether or not that will help her gain more height. If she is just turning 17 though, she should already be past puberty so those kinds of bodily changes shouldn't be a factor. But growing a little taller might help her correct the technique issues with any pre-rotations. The fact that Satoko's rotations are so tight and fast may make it difficult for judges to detect any actual pre-rotations. And, as I said, I think checking skaters with a fine tooth comb all the time is often unfair unless the technical problems are very clear and obvious. The fact is the judging is quite uneven across the board. Some skaters get marked down and some don't when perhaps they should. Add to the PCS craziness, and that's why there is always so much debate surrounding scoring, even more debate than there ever was under 6.0 which was also a flawed system, but less easy to analyze.
@whatif, Gracie Gold doesn't need to even think about adding a 3-axel at this point. She needs to work on putting together amazing programs and gaining complete belief in her ability. She needs to bring the shock and awe next season and lay it down so that judges and her competitors know she is a force to be reckoned with. This season, GG mostly beat herself. That's the lesson she needs to learn from, and that's what she needs to change.
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- Apr 16, 2006
If anything, the immediate problem I see there is that she is almost using her entire blade rather than the toe pick to lift off, and she turns considerably before jumping. I would give that a -GOE, really bad technique, imho.
Yes, that's also what I noticed when I first watched the video. And yes, she has to use more than the toe pick to lift off, because she doesn't use the other leg to jump. Can this considered to be a flip? I find her delightful to watch, I don't want to overly criticise her, but it seems to be harsh on lipers when they're penalized for using the wrong takeoff edge when there's somebody around getting full credit for a jump without even using the takeoff leg to jump.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Many have raised valid criticisms of Polina's skating, and cite them as reasons why Polina deserved the scores she deserved. And as fan, I am not hesitant to point out things that I think she should work on. But what I fail to see is why the same criticisms do not apply to those who placed above her when they really should? It seems like everytime someone mentions that she may be underscored, many are quick to point out all her flaws. But why do these flaws validate her low scores while other skaters who share the same flaws more or less are being given the benefit of the doubt? Not only that, many of the things that she does better than the other skaters, are either not valued or being largely overlooked. THAT, is what I don't agree with. While I think these flaws do factor into her scoring, I do also believe being an untested US #3 also hurts her.
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- Mar 24, 2015
She said herself quad salchow is more likely for her. For a power skater, her 2A is scary. She should focus on upping the quality of her forward edge take off regardless.
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- Dec 6, 2004
I see this thread is at the point of arguing edge calls and speed and all the minute details of scoring. I don't care to contribute to that.
My overall impression of the FP was "meh". It seemed most of the ladies were skating to not lose rather than win. They were decent performances but few really grabbed me. My favourite skates were Gracie Gold and Ashely Wagner. And Xiu Lin's dress was REALLY distracting. I'm sure I wore something just like that on my honeymoon. Just sayin'. I liked her music though.
My overall impression of the FP was "meh". It seemed most of the ladies were skating to not lose rather than win. They were decent performances but few really grabbed me. My favourite skates were Gracie Gold and Ashely Wagner. And Xiu Lin's dress was REALLY distracting. I'm sure I wore something just like that on my honeymoon. Just sayin'. I liked her music though.
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