2015 Worlds Men Short Program March 27

[andromache]

This has probably been remarked upon earlier (I'm only now catching up and watching), but at Kovtun's PCS. He received higher PCS than Jason? By less than one-tenth of a point, but even so.

I accept the reality that PCS increases alongside TES much of the time, but he didn't even have the technical goods today. Strange to see when other men were lowballed on PCS because their jumps were not up to par today (i.e. Josh Farris). Kovtun even received higher PCS than Kozuka, and Kozuka had higher TES. It's very puzzling.

 

[StitchMonkey]

This has probably been remarked upon earlier (I'm only now catching up and watching), but at Kovtun's PCS. He received higher PCS than Jason? By less than one-tenth of a point, but even so.

I accept the reality that PCS increases alongside TES much of the time, but he didn't even have the technical goods today. Strange to see when other men were lowballed on PCS because their jumps were not up to par today (i.e. Josh Farris). Kovtun even received higher PCS than Kozuka, and Kozuka had higher TES. It's very puzzling.

I think the judges sometimes feel there is an unwritten bullet point on PCS for finishing the program rather than just walking off the ice and giving up when you have a total meltdown. Sorta a we feel sorry for you and would not want to be you so we will give you more points to help with our discomfort thing.

 

[peg]

This has probably been remarked upon earlier (I'm only now catching up and watching), but at Kovtun's PCS. He received higher PCS than Jason? By less than one-tenth of a point, but even so.

I accept the reality that PCS increases alongside TES much of the time, but he didn't even have the technical goods today. Strange to see when other men were lowballed on PCS because their jumps were not up to par today (i.e. Josh Farris). Kovtun even received higher PCS than Kozuka, and Kozuka had higher TES. It's very puzzling.

I absolutely agree.

In what universe does a meltdown from Kovtun merit essentially the same PCS (40.15) as a gorgeously clean skate from Jason (40.14)? Even when both are clean, Jason should be getting higher PCS due to better choreo, transitions, interpretation. I'm sorry, but I'm really having a hard tie stomaching some of the judging at this event. Normally I can shrug off most of the judging decisions I disagree with, but this event has been something else.

 

[firal]

They hopefully will spend A LOT time in the leaders' waiting area.

This needs to be repeated so it will come true. :thumbsup:

 

[Interspectator]

Most people know about Kozuka's congenital hip condition that makes it difficult for him to give clean performances (jumps) and I just read on a news site that Mura had sprained both his ankles! It didn't say when or the severity of the sprain, but it does give some explanation why he did so badly in his jumps.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Not a Kovtun hater (ok well maybe some of his skating) but I don't agree with you on that point, this is an international sport, we should be respectful of all countries and people so even if something is considered offensive in one country and is in another, it is not an excuse. Like I'm being really general here, not attacking Kovtun because I don't care about what he's said but you saying "well big deal" is kind of rude don't you think? That kind of attitude is really dismissive to people's feelings, whether or not someone is justified in being offended by something, you shouldn't dismiss their feelings like that. If they are justified, sympathize with them, if they aren't maybe try to explain your side or just leave them alone. Don't give people that kind of attitude.

I was not trying to be rude here. I apologize for making it seem like that.


I just feel like you guys treat him like a criminal.

I'm not trying to give people an attitude.

GOSH! I HATE it when I do something WRONG. It makes me feel like a bad person.



I understand that it's an international sport, but all of you are treating him like he's some horrible criminal.




Again I hate being accused of being rude. I'm not a rude person. I'm trying to say something. UGH! WHY DID I FREAKING PUT THAT PART THERE! I'M A TOTAL IDIOT FOR DOING IT!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

CBC recapped men's top 3 just now with different commentary.

Wonder how they justified Hanyu's lead ... But worse how would they justify Ten sitting in 3rd to a casual audience.

 

[Mathman]

To Cheerknithanson: You are not a rude person. You are nice and you want everyone else to be nice, too. So do I.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Also regarding Kovtun's PCS, it was clearly kept high to keep him from being further buried. It's not right - but people should quit acting like such ridiculousness has never happened before. The judges need the book thrown at them.

Also regarding "he should know not to pop at this level", I don't think he's purposely popping his jumps. I mean it happens to many skaters (see: Mura... Even Hanyu has popped his 3A before and he's the best at it). The 3A pop is a rarity from Kovtun though.

 

[Flaya]

What "hate speech" specifically? Nobody has ever come up with any proof of this. If it's just the phrase I'm thinking of...I have seen probably a dozen other skaters use the same phrase, but not in an intentionally hateful way, and I'm positive they don't understand the cultural implications it has in the US.

Majorov said terrible things on FB a few years ago, but he apologized and presumably he has grown up since then. Should we dig this up every time he competes? What about Gracie's Tweets?

I agree, the fact that he used the word f*g to describe gay people does not make it hate speech, especially after he apologized. I am gay and believe people should get thicker skin, there are many homophobic people out there either we like or not. And hating someone the large majority of us have never met is more self-destructive than anything.

 

[cheerknithanson]

To Cheerknithanson: You are not a rude person. You are nice and you want everyone else to be nice, too. So do I.

Thank you.

Sometimes when I try to defend someone, it could come across as rude, but I'm not intentionally doing it to be rude, I'm trying to get people to listen and open their eyes. To stop acting like bullies.

 

[kresslia]

Wonder how they justified Hanyu's lead ... But worse how would they justify Ten sitting in 3rd to a casual audience.

I don't think Kurt is the biggest fan of Ten going by what he was saying during 4CC (basically just that Ten is still missing something).

Hanyu though, they were actually full of praise for him.

 

[karne]

Being nineteen is no excuse for saying offensive things, or for Kovtun acting like an arrogant little so-and-so. Youth is not an excuse. He's nineteen, not nine. He should know better.

You didn't see Jason or Joshua saying offensive things at nineteen. Remember, they're only a year older than he is.

 

[evangeline]

Wonder how they justified Hanyu's lead ... But worse how would they justify Ten sitting in 3rd to a casual audience.

Haven't watched CBC's coverage of Denis Ten's SP yet, but CBC explained Hanyu's SP score by:

1) Skating skills--Kurt says he gains power from the steps when other skaters don't, etc.
2) Hanyu's backloading of three jumps (/two jumping passes) in the second half, which gives him a bonus
3) Quality of other jumps
4) High components in general
5) "Center stagemanship" (or whatever it was that Kurt said about command over the ice and audience)

Link to CBC commentary here: https://youtu.be/1pQGmzctFT4

 

[peg]

Thank you.

Sometimes when I try to defend someone, it could come across as rude, but I'm not intentionally doing it to be rude, I'm trying to get people to listen and open their eyes. To stop acting like bullies.

I know that your intentions are always the best and so I always take your posts in that spirit. However, it is disrespectful to basically be saying people should or should not feel a certain way (e.g. offended) in a given situation. People have a right to feel whatever they feel. Just as you have a right to feel frustrated when you see people dissing Kovtun. That said, I was older than you are now before I understood that

 

[cheerknithanson]

I know that your intentions are always the best and so I always take your posts in that spirit. However, it is disrespectful to basically be saying people should or should not feel a certain way (e.g. offended) in a given situation. People have a right to feel whatever they feel. Just as you have a right to feel frustrated when you see people dissing Kovtun. That said, I was older than you are now before I understood that

I understand. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. People can feel what they want to I agree. But to put it out and make it sound nasty...I don't think that's right either.

If ANYONE wants me to shut my mouth about this, go ahead and tell me.

Sometimes I feel like people view me as a child by the way I act.

 

[peg]

I understand. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. People can feel what they want to I agree. But to put it out and make it sound nasty...I don't think that's right either.

If ANYONE wants me to shut my mouth about this, go ahead and tell me.

Sometimes I feel like people view me as a child by the way I act.

I do agree that there's a difference between feeling offended (a feeling) and being nasty (a behavior). But people will also disagree on what constitutes nastiness, and at the end of the day, none of us can control the behavior of anyone other than ourselves.

Don't worry so much about what other people think. You can't please everyone anyway (and plenty of people on here act more childish than you do ) You have a right to voice your opinion as well. People don't have to agree with you. Evaluate their point of view, and then consider whether you want to change the way you say things. You don't have to stop talking about something just because someone disagrees

 

[Mathman]

Being nineteen is no excuse for saying offensive things, or for Kovtun acting like an arrogant little so-and-so. Youth is not an excuse. He's nineteen, not nine. He should know better.

You didn't see Jason or Joshua saying offensive things at nineteen. Remember, they're only a year older than he is.

It's tough to be young in the era of social media. Rude and offensive is the new polite and respectful. Just "keeping it real" here.

Jason and Joshua? -- yuck, they're PC (the unpardonable sin).

 

[Krunchii]

I was not trying to be rude here. I apologize for making it seem like that.


I just feel like you guys treat him like a criminal.

I'm not trying to give people an attitude.

GOSH! I HATE it when I do something WRONG. It makes me feel like a bad person.



I understand that it's an international sport, but all of you are treating him like he's some horrible criminal.




Again I hate being accused of being rude. I'm not a rude person. I'm trying to say something. UGH! WHY DID I FREAKING PUT THAT PART THERE! I'M A TOTAL IDIOT FOR DOING IT!

I'm going to reply to you here, I did not say you were a rude person but that being dismissive of how some people feel about what someone else by saying "well big deal" is rude. You shouldn't call yourself an idiot for that, as we move along in life, we're always learning new lessons and we shouldn't down ourselves for getting something wrong.

Anyway don't lump me in with what other people are saying about Kovtun, I think I made like one post saying that he could pull himself up in the FS since he's done it before. I'm not a fan of his skating at all but I haven't said anything about him here that was unrelated to his skating. I don't know the details of everything he has said except for bits and pieces people have mentioned but maybe some of some of his comments hit close to home for some people and really offended them. You may think that he's being treated like a criminal but sometimes you have to stop, sit down and maybe understand why a certain person may feel that way about the things that come out of his mouth. If you don't like it, just move on and leave a nice message for him, it's okay, we don't have to agree all the time.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I'll shut up then.

I'm somewhat a perfectionist in a way. So if I do things wrong, sometimes I get mad at myself or scold myself because there was no excuse for me to do that mistake.

I understand perfectly well why people are feeling that way.