Yes, I agree with that and that look disturbed me a lot. Otherwise I enjoyed their skating.
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2015 Worlds Pairs Short Program March 25
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
Yes, I agree with that and that look disturbed me a lot. Otherwise I enjoyed their skating.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Slow yes, but I didn't see a stumble...
I might be using the wrong word, then. When she is in the upright position, she's so slow that for a moment her blade stops, isn't running. It's like a scratch and she lose the balance a bit. How do you say that? Stumble might not be right.
Here at 3:18/19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkw9rEN71e0
I don't know if it was the body losing the balance, or the blade which caused losing the balance. At first I noticed the body.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
There is something RIDICULOUSLY attractive about Marchei/Hotarek. They look perfect, absolutely perfect, together. And when they skate, I cannot take my eyes off them. When Valentina skated singles, I didn't think she stood out much in any way; now, skating pairs, she has star quality. When they get the triple twist, watch out! I hope their free skate goes as well as the short program did.
Alba's description fits perfectly that of a ballerina. It's really just using different words to state the same thing: "Meagan Duhamel doesn't look like a graceful ballerina, like a classic Russian trained ballerina with pointed toe, beautiful lines and graceful movements." Here is the exact quote again: <<It's about the streched leg, body position/posture, arm movements and free leg. All these little things that matters.>> The quote and the sentence before it are all saying the same thing just stated differently.
Russia has dominated Pairs skating for almost half a century, it is normal their style is being projected as the ideal for the sport. It doesn't surprise many spectators have consciously and probably subconsciously as well taken these qualities as the standard in which all pairs skaters, both males and females, are measured against. In this sense, neither Duhamel or Radford fits this mold, in fact, very few top North American pair skaters would currently fit this mold either except Lubov and Dylan because, well, Lubov is actually Russian. I think this is a question of style, some people are going to like apple and some others will prefer orange. North American teams are generally more athletic, different to the Russians. Looking at the Chinese Pairs, they too have come a long way and develop their own school and style in Pairs skating. In a way, the Chinese style is somewhere between Russian and North American in my view. Shen/Zhao burst on the scenes in the late 1990s but it didn't get them very far due to criticisms of them being too athletic and not smooth enough. It took time however, nowadays, Chinese teams tend to display strong chemistry on ice. Top Chinese pairs seldom change partners unless one of them retires so many of these partnerships have been together for a long time and many of them ended up being romantically involved. In this context, it's almost a given that the Chinese pairs will and should display better chemistry with each other. This helped the Chinese develop their unique style too.
No matter which styles you prefer which is inherently subjective, keep in mind this is a sport foremost. It is seldom that the World or Olympic Champions win their titles without also scoring the best technical scores.
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- Joined
- Feb 16, 2014
But people really need to clarify which Morozov they are talking about, because Nikolai is there as well. I think the person who asked about weight loss meant Morozov the Elder.
While Russia being incredibly influential can't be discounted 2003 on s/z is not much like Russia and they became standard too. D/r are not like Russians and they aren't like s/z they are totally corruthers corruthers. The fact that hey are completely unacceptable to many except judges who love them is all based on china and Russia best. S/z or g/g.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Well, I guess Michelle Kwan, Mao, Yuna, Marisa Castelli (as I mentioned), Kirsten, Marchei, Denney, Scimeca, ALL chinese couples, and many more from the past and the present were/are all Russian Ballerinas. I'm sorry but I think there is a confusion here with this ballet thing, whether it's russian or north american.
What I pointed out is part of the dancing. Qualities that a dancer should have, whether is ballet, modern or ballroom. In FS this is part of the choreography, interpretation and performance. You express the music, the rythm or tell a story through the body movements, and facial expression as well. It's like a design, the image you have in mind, the concept, you express that through movements.
These are qualities that ideally every skater should have. Some do, some don't. Some are better, some less better and some are excellent. Not the end of the world, for sure. But please, don't make it like it's something limited to Russian ballet. Styles can be different, modern is a complete different dance from classic ballet, for example, and USA are the top for that. Yet certain qualities are standarts for all dancers, and not only for dancers. Physical education helped to prepare the way for modern dance. The style has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
This is not Russian ballet style. Far from it, it's Pina Bausch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys5xfdn5rlo
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well said. Skaters have difference body types and muscle types. D/R have trained extremely hard to make their pairing work -- they are extraordinary athletes and IMO the short is a masterpiece, as is their FS.- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
I have to say I am really impressed how well Valentina MARCHEI is doing in her first season of pair skating. Even for new pairs what are composed of former pair skating, it is so hard to get this kind of results. But she has no pair training at all!!! (correct if I am wrong). I guess if you are an elite single skater, you can easily translate your jumps and SS into another discipline, especially for ladies. The throw has now distance or height, but she rotated and landed. I wonder how much of the rotation is generated by herself, and how much by her partner.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
They had good choreography going into it, they were very fast, she split 45, his arms were down past his shoulders, clean catch (her body didn't touch but her dress did) and she had a good landing, no edge. Not that it matters, it's not judged.
Twist Lifts
1) Lady’s split position (each leg at least 45° from the body axis and Lady’s legs are straight or almost straight)
2) Catching the lady at the side of the waist without her hand(s)/arm(s)/any part of upper body touching the man
3) Lady’s position in the air with arm(s) above the head (minimum one full revolution)
4) Difficult take-off (steps/skating moves executed by both partners immediately preceding take-off)
5) Man’s arms sideways, being straight or almost straight, reaching at least shoulder level after release of the lady
I would have had it at a +2, if she could have managed to get her feet higher I would have given it a +3.
Slow yes, but I didn't see a stumble...
I didn't see one either.
These are the bullets the judges base the GOE on:
1) good speed or acceleration during spin
2) ability to center a spin quickly
3) balanced rotations in all positions
4) clearly more than required number of rev.
5) good and identical positions by both partners
6) good control throughout all phases by both partners
7) good unison and distance between partners
8) element matched to the musical structure
I would have still given them positive GOE for the spin, either 0 or +1. They need to get a #9 and move distance. If a pair has great unison but their a mile apart or bad unison really close, they should be marked separately.
Moskvina has a wonderful choreographer and gives her team terrible elements. The death spiral and lift are really ugly and they don't stand a chance with elements like that, no team would.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Oh, you're right, Yuka indeed loses her balance for a bit on the exit. The blade is a very minor thing, but her upper body has a wobble (even the commentator acknowledges it), and it's not the prettiest of endings (it's pretty much covered up though and I wouldn't think it to affect the GOE... which would be about a 0 or a +1 for the slight loss of unison on the catch-foot back spin, and the slow upright spin).
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If K/S gets +2 for their twist, then what on earth should we give S/H, P/Z (even P/T and D/R)? Maybe I was too harsh to say "crashy"--it's certainly one of their better twists--but still weaker than the other top pairs.
I love K/S, I'm rooting for them to win the World title, but not via crazy GOE on their twist. Just like I wouldn't approve if, say, P/T received more for their spins than D/R, no matter my feelings about either team.
Maybe I was too harsh to say "crashy"--it's certainly one of their better twists--but still weaker than the other top pairs.I love K/S, I'm rooting for them to win the World title, but not via crazy GOE on their twist. Just like I wouldn't approve if, say, P/T received more for their spins than D/R, no matter my feelings about either team.
I don't think switching a partner would be a good idea for her--maybe their "look" doesn't win over everyone, but the judges don't seem to mind when they hit their stuff. And Zhang happens to be one of the strongest, most stable pairs skaters around. There are not many men who'll be able to perform those twists and lifts. I hope they sort out her jumps ASAP, because I don't know if she'll be able to find a comparable partner after Zhang retires.
A very high quality event with very few mistakes (sadly A/R had a bad fall). I mostly agree with the overall placements but not so much the scoring.
Yes, D/R deserve to be in first, their tech was beyond compare but I really feel the were over marked on the PCS. They ran P/T very close, beat K/S by over a mark and P/Z by just over 2. I would have them around P/Z PCS level, still in the lead but much closer to rest of the field. P/T were a delight, I thought they would struggle but they delivered a top quality performance. The jumps looked secure and the throw was superb.
S/H's short really suits their style and personality. I was never this pairs biggest fan but they are working hard to improve, can they stay on the podium? It's great to see K/S back competing at Worlds and finally breaking 70 for their short, the performance went down very well with the crowd. It's practically a tie for 3rd place, it's all to play for in the free.
P/Z are a little of the pace. I was never his biggest fan but their is something about this new partnership that I like. I really enjoyed the choreo for this programme, they really captured the feel of the music. I didn't think they got the best reaction from the Chinese crowd.
Yes, D/R deserve to be in first, their tech was beyond compare but I really feel the were over marked on the PCS. They ran P/T very close, beat K/S by over a mark and P/Z by just over 2. I would have them around P/Z PCS level, still in the lead but much closer to rest of the field. P/T were a delight, I thought they would struggle but they delivered a top quality performance. The jumps looked secure and the throw was superb.
S/H's short really suits their style and personality. I was never this pairs biggest fan but they are working hard to improve, can they stay on the podium? It's great to see K/S back competing at Worlds and finally breaking 70 for their short, the performance went down very well with the crowd. It's practically a tie for 3rd place, it's all to play for in the free.
P/Z are a little of the pace. I was never his biggest fan but their is something about this new partnership that I like. I really enjoyed the choreo for this programme, they really captured the feel of the music. I didn't think they got the best reaction from the Chinese crowd.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I finally got to watch the pairs event. I too noticed the lack of reaction from the crowd for P/Z, which I thought was strange. I actually found the audience to be most receptive to S/H, of all the Chinese pairs. I expected more audience love for P/T.
I don't understand all of the dislike for D/R. They're fast, energetic, and fairly expressive. I like their style, even if it isn't the typical balletic elegance.
what do you mean?
Maybe, but I think Weaver and Poje will take dance. I love their Free dance.
Her posture is nowhere near good.
As for Yuko's death spiral being "ugly", Trankov said it is what it is because of Yuko' s shoulder injury. We can accept it I suppose.
And about D/R being athletic, not balletic. Even with a pure athletic style S/K got, they still care about every movement being refined. It's a raw quality of D/R elements that prevents me from admiring or liking their skating.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
If K/S gets +2 for their twist, then what on earth should we give S/H, P/Z (even P/T and D/R)?
K/S easily deserved positive GOE on the twist, but the judges only have +1 to +3 to play with, so if one team deserves +1, the judges only have until +3 until they run out of numbers. Until the GOE is changed to +1 bad through +10 execellent, the judges have no choice and teams like K/S shouldn't have to pay the price for bad rules. They did a great job and should be rewarded accordingly.
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