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- Feb 25, 2014
Yuzuru Hanyu won 2014 Worlds over Tatsuki Machida by 0.3 points so yes, even 0.2 is considered "beat".
2016-17 State of Japanese Ladies Skating
- Thread starter TheGrandSophy
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Yuzuru Hanyu won 2014 Worlds over Tatsuki Machida by 0.3 points so yes, even 0.2 is considered "beat".
If Marin keeps it together in the next year and keeps her jumps i see her making the Olympic team. She has that star quality that Mao had when she was young and Sakoto doesn't have that kind of quality let alone the jumps. Marin just needs to be more consistent. Easier said then done.
Well, no one is really consistent beside Medvedeva and Miyahara to be honest; not Mao, Wakaba, Marin, Rika or even the other Russians beside Zhenya, like Pogorilaya, Radionova, Tuktamysheva, Lipnitskaya, etc. Add the US ladies too, Wagner and Gold is not consistent. I think Zhenya and Satoko is more of the rare ones in terms of consistency (barring puberty affecting Medvedeva in the future), I would not really call someone inconsistent just because they don't have Satoko+Zhenya's level of consistency.
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Marin's star quality won't save her if she messes up, and she's not in a superior league compared to Satoko. Whether people like Satoko's style or not, she also has a complete package of qualities, minus jumps. Marin has the jumps (though nothing spectacular to talk about, unlike Mao when she was her age), Satoko has the consistency. Fair and square so far.
Its not valid to predict future results though. There is a whole difference between "evgenia beat satoko" and "satoko beat anna".
Today she won by 0.2, tomorrow she may not win because a judge gave her 1 point less somewhere.
No statistical difference
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Its not valid to predict future results though. There is a whole difference between "evgenia beat satoko" and "satoko beat anna".
Today she won by 0.2, tomorrow she may not win because a judge gave her 1 point less somewhere.
No statistical difference
Well that's true, nobody can predict future results. Irina Slutskaya won 2005 Worlds, with Sasha Cohen and Carolina Kostner placing 2nd and 3rd. Fumie Suguri and Miki Ando both placed higher, yet Shizuka Arakawa won the 2006 Olympics.
I think Marin has tremendous star power - she draws attention like a magnet, off and on the ice.
It's not only the physical aspects: beautiful face, figure, hair, hands - it's also the way she moves, acts, smiles, her posture, femininity, amazing costumes, interactions with audience etc..
In last tourney during the medal ceremony she smirked, jumped 2A she previously botched in fs and whole arena roared, then she tripped on the podium and people burst out laughing with her.
It's tough to describe with words, how genuinely attractive she is, you got to watch it by yourself:
https://youtu.be/nqlzu8au6b4?t=106
It's the same kind of crowd's affection as towards Julia in Russia. She conquered Japanese hearts and beyond.
I think Marin has tremendous star power - she draws attention like a magnet, off and on the ice.
It's not only the physical aspects: beautiful face, figure, hair, hands - it's also the way she moves, acts, smiles, her posture, femininity, amazing costumes, interactions with audience etc..
In last tourney during the medal ceremony she smirked, jumped 2A she previously botched in fs and whole arena roared, then she tripped on the podium and people burst out laughing with her.
It's tough to describe with words, how genuinely attractive she is, you got to watch it by yourself:
https://youtu.be/nqlzu8au6b4?t=106
It's the same kind of crowd's affection as towards Julia in Russia. She conquered Japanese hearts and beyond.
On the other hand, this quality alone, while winning the fan´s hearts all around the globe, won´t win medals (see Julia) =(
She still must keep and improve the technical aspects to beat Satoko as #1, specially because Satoko is insanely consistent. Marin would either need to score way more when on,or hit the same consistency.
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I feel Marin is the person who can do surprisingly well, especially on the day that matters. Even if she had a bad season, as long as she makes the Olympic team, she has the POTENTIAL to be the best. What I wanna say is what we see from her now is maybe 80% of her full potential, vs. what we see about Satoko is about 100% of her full potential. Satoko has already been doing well with presentations, spins and so on. It not like she is going to improve her weak spot, jumps in the future.
I am not very sure of Mao making the team. I just feel Mao has been stuck at a point for a while where she cannot move forward anymore. Her motivation of Sochi Olympics was to get Gold; now her goal would be make the team and get on the podium in 2018, which is quite unlikely. What would be Mao's motivation for another Olympics?
During her long career, so many things have changed; now her only advantage is her artistry and ss. Her spins used be among the best, but now average because ladies are doing much more difficult spins. She has 3A as her weapon but now other ladies are doing two 3-3s, potentially in addition to 3A, plus backloaded jumps. She has troubles with her jumps. And when her jumps are falling, she won't even get a high pcs. Would she be happy if she drop to the 10th in 2018 and end her career?
I am not very sure of Mao making the team. I just feel Mao has been stuck at a point for a while where she cannot move forward anymore. Her motivation of Sochi Olympics was to get Gold; now her goal would be make the team and get on the podium in 2018, which is quite unlikely. What would be Mao's motivation for another Olympics?
During her long career, so many things have changed; now her only advantage is her artistry and ss. Her spins used be among the best, but now average because ladies are doing much more difficult spins. She has 3A as her weapon but now other ladies are doing two 3-3s, potentially in addition to 3A, plus backloaded jumps. She has troubles with her jumps. And when her jumps are falling, she won't even get a high pcs. Would she be happy if she drop to the 10th in 2018 and end her career?
Not only fans, just listen to TAT's voice tone in these two videos:
1. https://youtu.be/a-OKJr6CqTI?t=240
TAT:
- Da, u nyeyo vsyo gladko... Ona mozhet nravitsya, ona mozhet ne nravitsya, no ona dyelayet vsyo.
(Yes, everything is smooth about her... You may like her, you may not like her, but she does it all.)
Commentator
says he didn't spot any URs and that Satoko is consistent and well prepared.
TAT:
- Ona vsyegda gotova, ona vsegda yednako katayetsa... no myenya ona nye trogayet.
(She's always prepared, she always skates the same (level)... but she doesn't move me.)
Commentator shares similar opinion and sums up:
- Nye dohodit energia... (Energy does not get through...)
TAT:
- Nyet. Nye dohodit. (Indeed. It doesn't.)
2. https://youtu.be/tJfhfyhug0s?t=21
TAT:
- Krasavitsa, posmotrite. Posmotrite, eto iaponskaya krasavitsa...
- (A beauty, just look. Just look, it's Japanese beauty...)
Commentator:
- No nye Mao? ... Ili mozhna sravnit?
- (Still, not Mao? ... Or comparable?)
TAT:
- ......
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Well since the subject switched to Marin vs Satoko, I think their coaches Mie Hamada and Yamato Tamura are the only ones who can give accurate descriptions of their personalities and training strategies. The rest is speculation. Having said that, here is what their coaches have to say about them (part of Patinage 2016 magazine, translation by ohlovesosweet):
Could you describe the training in more detail?
Hamada: We’re training on building speed to lessen the number of crossovers she (Satoko) uses. If possible, we want to use as few as possible. Right now, say she uses ten so we want to cut it down to eight this season. We’re working on adding more power to her strokes.
Tamura: We are. Well, I think she’s improved.
Hamada: I think she’s improved, though, when we were with Lori (Nichol), she had the chance to skate together with (Carolina) Kostner. When Satoko saw her skating, she said she is still not there yet. There are a lot of areas to work on.
In a previous interview, Hamada-sensei was asked an area Miyahara should work and she answered that she could be a little more carefree. What do you think about that now?
Hamada: I did. For this season’s programs, a focus area is to make the program her own, feel the music. She participated in more ice shows during the off-season, and it brought out more of an artist in her. Her attitude towards practice has not changed, and her humility is absolutely incredible. Her strengths, steadiness and tenacity, have not changed. What has increased lately is that she is opening up more. When asked for her opinions, she shares what she would like to do.
Tamura: She does.
Hamada: Satoko is a humble girl. She isn’t the assertive leader-type, but everyone can learn from watching Satoko. Even after winning Nationals and coming in second at the World Championships, her attitude towards her younger teammates have not changed at all. She is still the same Satoko who gives her seat for others. I haven’t seen her act like an arrogant brat even once. For that reason, I admire her.
***
Hamada: Marin can be too happy-go-lucky and lighthearted and then (laughs). Then, her mood would quickly do a 180 and drop.
Does she recover quickly?
Hamada: Yes. Right away (laughs).
Tamura: When she’s depressed, she’s depressed, though. She doesn’t learn (laughs).
Hamada: Ahahah (laughs). Unlacing her skates in frustration (laughs).
Tamura: There seems to be a lot of pigheaded boys (laughs). The girls are more collected.
Hamada: Well, Marin has her good points, but she also has those helpless qualities, too.
Does Miyahara’s approach towards skating positively influence the team
Hamada: She has a huge influence. The other girls always see Satoko’s steadiness and humility in practice. Like when we’re working on conditioning, I don’t like when someone leaves out parts of the program. You may end up doing the same thing when it matters. But, Satoko always does it perfectly, and the younger skaters notice that. It makes me think I don’t have the same big influence. If you want to become a skater who can bring out your best abilities in competition, you need to be like Satoko.
Tamura: You do. Satoko’s attitude towards skating has an extraordinary influential effect on her juniors.
Could you describe the training in more detail?
Hamada: We’re training on building speed to lessen the number of crossovers she (Satoko) uses. If possible, we want to use as few as possible. Right now, say she uses ten so we want to cut it down to eight this season. We’re working on adding more power to her strokes.
Tamura: We are. Well, I think she’s improved.
Hamada: I think she’s improved, though, when we were with Lori (Nichol), she had the chance to skate together with (Carolina) Kostner. When Satoko saw her skating, she said she is still not there yet. There are a lot of areas to work on.
In a previous interview, Hamada-sensei was asked an area Miyahara should work and she answered that she could be a little more carefree. What do you think about that now?
Hamada: I did. For this season’s programs, a focus area is to make the program her own, feel the music. She participated in more ice shows during the off-season, and it brought out more of an artist in her. Her attitude towards practice has not changed, and her humility is absolutely incredible. Her strengths, steadiness and tenacity, have not changed. What has increased lately is that she is opening up more. When asked for her opinions, she shares what she would like to do.
Tamura: She does.
Hamada: Satoko is a humble girl. She isn’t the assertive leader-type, but everyone can learn from watching Satoko. Even after winning Nationals and coming in second at the World Championships, her attitude towards her younger teammates have not changed at all. She is still the same Satoko who gives her seat for others. I haven’t seen her act like an arrogant brat even once. For that reason, I admire her.
***
Hamada: Marin can be too happy-go-lucky and lighthearted and then (laughs). Then, her mood would quickly do a 180 and drop.
Does she recover quickly?
Hamada: Yes. Right away (laughs).
Tamura: When she’s depressed, she’s depressed, though. She doesn’t learn (laughs).
Hamada: Ahahah (laughs). Unlacing her skates in frustration (laughs).
Tamura: There seems to be a lot of pigheaded boys (laughs). The girls are more collected.
Hamada: Well, Marin has her good points, but she also has those helpless qualities, too.
Does Miyahara’s approach towards skating positively influence the team
Hamada: She has a huge influence. The other girls always see Satoko’s steadiness and humility in practice. Like when we’re working on conditioning, I don’t like when someone leaves out parts of the program. You may end up doing the same thing when it matters. But, Satoko always does it perfectly, and the younger skaters notice that. It makes me think I don’t have the same big influence. If you want to become a skater who can bring out your best abilities in competition, you need to be like Satoko.
Tamura: You do. Satoko’s attitude towards skating has an extraordinary influential effect on her juniors.
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- Oct 31, 2014
80 percent? No..I think we may be seeing Marin only the half of her full potential. Her biggest weakness is her consistency though.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Part II: Marin talking about Satoko (also from Patinage 2016, translated by ohlovesosweet)
Marin: I really look up to Satoko-chan. She’s the senior I’m closest to, and I really respect her. Satoko-chan doesn’t mess up in practices and she competes exactly as she performs in practices. She’s the one I have to watch and learn from the most.
What’s your favorite thing about Miyahara’s skating?
Marin: She’s always so consistent. When you watch her, she just gives her best out there no matter the competition. That’s the kind of skater I want to become.
This season, the skaters on Team Hamada-sensei is making a name for themselves, including yourself. How does it feel?
Marin: There’s motivation. Even when you’re away from the rink for a week due to competition, when you come back and see everyone practicing, you notice how much they’ve improved in that time. You also feel a little impatient, but everyone probably feels the same way.
When you watch each other in practices, it really does motivate you to work harder, doesn’t it?
Marin: It really does. When Satton is killing it in practices, everyone tries to follow suit. After the third practice session, everyone is tired or unable to move, but there goes Satton still going hard in practice with her spins, moves in the field, jumps, etc. When you see that, it’s real motivation to go back to practicing.
Does Miyahara ever take it easy or take a break?
Marin: No. I haven’t seen her. I do a lot though (forced laugh). That’s why, every time I see Satton, I have to work harder! I learn from her.
Marin: I really look up to Satoko-chan. She’s the senior I’m closest to, and I really respect her. Satoko-chan doesn’t mess up in practices and she competes exactly as she performs in practices. She’s the one I have to watch and learn from the most.
What’s your favorite thing about Miyahara’s skating?
Marin: She’s always so consistent. When you watch her, she just gives her best out there no matter the competition. That’s the kind of skater I want to become.
This season, the skaters on Team Hamada-sensei is making a name for themselves, including yourself. How does it feel?
Marin: There’s motivation. Even when you’re away from the rink for a week due to competition, when you come back and see everyone practicing, you notice how much they’ve improved in that time. You also feel a little impatient, but everyone probably feels the same way.
When you watch each other in practices, it really does motivate you to work harder, doesn’t it?
Marin: It really does. When Satton is killing it in practices, everyone tries to follow suit. After the third practice session, everyone is tired or unable to move, but there goes Satton still going hard in practice with her spins, moves in the field, jumps, etc. When you see that, it’s real motivation to go back to practicing.
Does Miyahara ever take it easy or take a break?
Marin: No. I haven’t seen her. I do a lot though (forced laugh). That’s why, every time I see Satton, I have to work harder! I learn from her.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
Not only fans, just listen to TAT's voice tone in these two videos:
1. https://youtu.be/a-OKJr6CqTI?t=240
TAT:
- Da, u nyeyo vsyo gladko... Ona mozhet nravitsya, ona mozhet ne nravitsya, no ona dyelayet vsyo.
(Yes, everything is smooth about her... You may like her, you may not like her, but she does it all.)
Commentator
says he didn't spot any URs and that Satoko is consistent and well prepared.
TAT:
- Ona vsyegda gotova, ona vsegda yednako katayetsa... no myenya ona nye trogayet.
(She's always prepared, she always skates the same (level)... but she doesn't move me.)
Commentator shares similar opinion and sums up:
- Nye dohodit energia... (Energy does not get through...)
TAT:
- Nyet. Nye dohodit. (Indeed. It doesn't.)
2. https://youtu.be/tJfhfyhug0s?t=21
TAT:
- Krasavitsa, posmotrite. Posmotrite, eto iaponskaya krasavitsa...
- (A beauty, just look. Just look, it's Japanese beauty...)
Commentator:
- No nye Mao? ... Ili mozhna sravnit?
- (Still, not Mao? ... Or comparable?)
TAT:
- ......
LOL! I agree with Tatiana's comparisons.....Satoko is consistent, but her skating doesn't move me at all.
I really believe Yokohama toughened her up. She digged herself huge 10pts hole after SP, but came back with a vengeance with new world record in LP. It must have risen her confidence significantly, she accentuated in interview after the free skate, that she can't skate such shorts anymore.
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I'm not sure that Marin will be automatically crowned as Japan #1 when she turns senior. After all, last year JSF also recognized that other juniors were performing more consistently, and chose not to send Marin to YOG as a consequence.
For now, Satoko is still scoring much higher than Marin, so her position on the Olympic team is fairly secure IMHO. I like Marin because of her gracefulness and light landings, but she needs to continuously up her tech content (which she is doing) and be more consistent in order to reach the top.
For now, Satoko is still scoring much higher than Marin, so her position on the Olympic team is fairly secure IMHO. I like Marin because of her gracefulness and light landings, but she needs to continuously up her tech content (which she is doing) and be more consistent in order to reach the top.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
Marin's GPF medal was the only thing that gave her the advantage over other juniors because the other criterias of selection (Jr Nationals, Nationals) were a failure. Her GPF bronze was also the result of who made the least mistakes, because her FS there was subpar and underwhelming. Small little details that are conveniently forgotten by some of her fans.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
Now realized it's Marin who plans to have a 3A. I thought it was Satoko and was totally at a loss.
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