2016-17 State of Russian Men's skating | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2016-17 State of Russian Men's skating

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
My, how times have changed.......Remember when Plushy, Yags, and Alexander Abt were all skating on the Russian Team? They'd have more pages on GS than the US Men and they were about equal with the Russian ladies who also had tons pages with Irina S., Maria B. and Viki Volchkova as the leading ladies for Russia.
 
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Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
My, how times have changed.......Remember when Plushy, Yags, and Alexander Abt were all skating on the Russian Team? They'd have more pages on GS than the US Men and they were about equal with the Russian ladies who also had tons pages with Irina S., Maria B. and Viki Volchkova as the leading ladies for Russia.

Men figure skating now is so weird, if you see a top skater who will make the finals this year it's not that clear that he's stronger than other skaters who won't be there. While during Kulik-Yags-Plushy era they were the best and it was so evident that there wasn't even a competiton for the rest of the field.

Kolyada has a better technique than most of these skaters (including Javi and Chan), but if you take a look at the protocols, judges almost can't distinguish a quad that is almost twice the height, or a 3A so easy and beautiful to watch than a quad with the height of a triple.

So why russian men skaters are so weak now? to me because the good old russian school still has values and wants bigger quads and axels, but the reality is that figure skating isn't rewarding anymore a good jumping technique (at least in the men) and that is crucial because a big quad also mean an unreliable landing (Kovtun docet), so it's better having a cheated tiny but stable quad.

I don't think this is a good lesson from the judges, i hope russian coaches won't change the technique even at the cost to not present a single skater at the Olympics because really when i see Javi or Shoma quads i'm not excited at all.
 
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gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
GP is over and one medal for Voronov.

Kolyada tried a quad lutz which was a surprise. I thought he would try to upgrade this season by changing his layout but he tried to just copy Hanyu or Fernandez layout. Now he's gone backwards on jumps.
 

Biellmann

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Last year i thought "many promising russian men, it's the beginning of a new era."
There were Pitkeev, Kolyada, and Kovtun (when he is on)..... But now, Pitkeev disappeared ( i heard bc of his injury? ), Kolyada is falling apart and Kovtun... is Kovtun :confused2:
Voronov is still in the business, but he is old, he is not "the future".
It doesn't look good right now.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Last year i thought "many promising russian men, it's the beginning of a new era."
There were Pitkeev, Kolyada, and Kovtun (when he is on)..... But now, Pitkeev disappeared ( i heard bc of his injury? ), Kolyada is falling apart and Kovtun... is Kovtun :confused2:
Voronov is still in the business, but he is old, he is not "the future".
It doesn't look good right now.

I know.

Pitkeev was the most promising russian men until national, apparently he quarrelled with Eteri, he moved to Buyanova and then the injury.

Kovtun should return to Morozov in my opinion: he said Maxim already had those quads few years ago, and he was trying to teach him the importance of a good daily training and that's where he's struggling. Inna is trying her best but she wanted Sergei (not Maxim) and she did her best with him.

Voronov is like Ashley Wagner: he's doing his best to stay relevant and approach the programs with more maturity and I think it's paying off.

Kolyada, actually i was surprised to see the russian fed giving him the chance to shine, but he struggled a lot with consistency, maybe he is like Denis Ten: slow start and then a complete different skater in the second half of the season.

Petrov was good at juniors but then Mishin tried this slow growth without teaching him so many quads and working more on the quality but judges never gave him a chance.

Artur Dmitriev Jr, Gordei Gorshkov,... :slink:

That's probably another prove on how important is Eteri's team for Russian figure skating, even though i've still the image of Denis Ten coached by Buyanova-Tarasova, he was already that good but his scores were really poor. (a little of politics going on for the men, huh?)
 
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vorravorra

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
I know.

Pitkeev was the most promising russian men until national, apparently he quarrelled with Eteri, he moved to Buyanova and then the injury.

Kovtun should return to Morozov in my opinion: he said Maxim already had those quads few years ago, and he was trying to teach him the importance of a good daily training and that's where he's struggling. Inna is trying her best but she wanted Sergei (not Maxim) and she did her best with him.

Voronov is like Ashley Wagner: he's doing his best to stay relevant and approach the programs with more maturity and I think it's paying off.

Kolyada, actually i was surprised to see the russian fed giving him the chance to shine, but he struggled a lot with consistency, maybe he is like Denis Ten: slow start and then a complete different skater in the second half of the season.

Petrov was good at juniors but then Mishin tried this slow growth without teaching him so many quads and working more on the quality but judges never gave him a chance.

Artur Dmitriev Jr, Gordei Gorshkov,... :slink:

That's probably another prove on how important is Eteri's team for Russian figure skating, even though i've still the image of Denis Ten coached by Buyanova-Tarasova, he was already that good but his scores were really poor. (a little of politics going on for the men, huh?)
No, Pitkeev got injured while still with Eteri, his last competition was the Nationals where he barely made it through the FS due to pain (the injury had actually been there for a while but it came to a head at the Nats). One of his main motives in moving to Buianova was better medical treatment available at CSKA. So far it hasn't helped. With Kolyada they have to settle on a jump layout already, they have been changing it drastically from one competition to the next - nobody can be stable under such circumstances. And yes, he takes a long time to gain form, but this inability to decide on which jumps to go with isn't helping. As for Kovtun - would Morozov even take him back? And it doesn't look like his problem is with coaches. He has developed a much better work ethic under Goncharenko and shown noticeable improvement in skating quality, but that obviously can only take him so far unless he fixes his head. With Petrov and quads - I am sure if he could do them Mishin would make him do them, but it seems that the height and rotation on his jumps just isn't enough so far.
 

RemyRose

YOLO
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Country
United-States
I know.

Pitkeev was the most promising russian men until national, apparently he quarrelled with Eteri, he moved to Buyanova and then the injury.

Kovtun should return to Morozov in my opinion: he said Maxim already had those quads few years ago, and he was trying to teach him the importance of a good daily training and that's where he's struggling.

Pitkeev was injured before he moved to Buyanova. I'm not a fan and even I know that he had a pretty bad injury during Nationals. So thats all on Eteri.

And Morozov and Kovtun didn't end on good terms from what I hear. So I can't see Morozov taking him back.
 
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silverfoxes

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Last year i thought "many promising russian men, it's the beginning of a new era."
There were Pitkeev, Kolyada, and Kovtun (when he is on)..... But now, Pitkeev disappeared ( i heard bc of his injury? ), Kolyada is falling apart and Kovtun... is Kovtun :confused2:
Voronov is still in the business, but he is old, he is not "the future".
It doesn't look good right now.

4 out of 6 of the men in the JGP final are Russian. Dmitri Aliev and Alexander Samarin should go senior next year and they are decent quad jumpers, if not the most consistent. Dima practices 4 kinds of quads already. And Roman Savosin has been doing ok at senior Bs. He tried 3 quads in his FS in Tallinn (he had several URs, but he still won the competition). Anton Shulepov doesn't have a stable quad yet but he managed a 4lz at least once in a local competition...maybe he will get one by next season.

I don't see what difference Sergei's age makes - after all Menshov was 5 years older and just retired this season; Plushenko's the same age as Menshov and still threatening to come back. With age comes more psychological stability and maturity. And I guess he is lucky that the Fed doesn't care about him and he can just do his own thing without much interference, and be successful at it while the "golden boys" crumble under the pressure.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
No, Pitkeev got injured while still with Eteri, his last competition was the Nationals where he barely made it through the FS due to pain (the injury had actually been there for a while but it came to a head at the Nats). One of his main motives in moving to Buianova was better medical treatment available at CSKA. So far it hasn't helped.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i remember an interview where he said that he left Eteri because she didn't let him to skate what he really wants.
 

vorravorra

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Correct me if i'm wrong but i remember an interview where he said that he left Eteri because she didn't let him to skate what he really wants.
I am not sure which interview you mean :scratch2: Adian was definitely still with Eteri at his last competition and didn't leave her until the spring. Eteri is usually accused of making Adian jump more quads than his body was ready for and showing indifference to his injury even during the Nationals. She seems to apply a tough love approach to all her students which works out just fine for those who can withstand it, but not those with physical weak spots who require careful handling like Adian.
 

Sweet Dream

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
No, Pitkeev got injured while still with Eteri, his last competition was the Nationals where he barely made it through the FS due to pain (the injury had actually been there for a while but it came to a head at the Nats). One of his main motives in moving to Buianova was better medical treatment available at CSKA. So far it hasn't helped.

It is sad that a rising star is lost because of his coach's fault. :sad14: That is why I always have a negative view of Eteri as a coach. :disagree:
 

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Country
United-States
My, how times have changed.......Remember when Plushy, Yags, and Alexander Abt were all skating on the Russian Team? They'd have more pages on GS than the US Men and they were about equal with the Russian ladies who also had tons pages with Irina S., Maria B. and Viki Volchkova as the leading ladies for Russia.

Those were the good old days, miss them!!!
 

vorravorra

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
It is sad that a rising star is lost because of his coach's fault. :sad14: That is why I always have a negative view of Eteri as a coach. :disagree:
It's hard to say to what degree exactly it's her fault - a weak back might have cut his career short with any coach. But "survival of the fittest" was definitely the wrong coaching strategy for him.
 

vorravorra

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Another bit of bad news on Adian - he will definitely not be back this season and the next season is uncertain.
 

Tutto

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
State of Russia skating could be summed up by three letters: SOS

Plush cursed it so he would still be THE king for years and years after his retirement (could actually work well for him getting on the Olympic team - again!) :)

Sorry about Adian, back injuries along with concussions are the worst. It must be an awful blow to him. We don't know how much of his situation can be blamed on Eteri but she is one iron lady I would think twice before letting her coach my kid. IIRC Evgenia was competing once with a broken arm, Polina already injured was forced to compete in JWC but had to withdraw when that injury was aggravated. In any case, all the best and get well soon Adian!
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
With Kolyada they have to settle on a jump layout already, they have been changing it drastically from one competition to the next - nobody can be stable under such circumstances. And yes, he takes a long time to gain form, but this inability to decide on which jumps to go with isn't helping.

Interesting cause in the off-season his coach was all about the the growth step-by-step instead of rushing adding multiple quads all at once as Tarasova suggested at Worlds.

I am not sure which interview you mean :scratch2: Adian was definitely still with Eteri at his last competition and didn't leave her until the spring. Eteri is usually accused of making Adian jump more quads than his body was ready for and showing indifference to his injury even during the Nationals. She seems to apply a tough love approach to all her students which works out just fine for those who can withstand it, but not those with physical weak spots who require careful handling like Adian.

I can't find that interview sorry, maybe it was Voronov.
 
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vorravorra

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Interesting cause in the off-season her coach was all about the: the growth step-by-step, not rushing adding multiple quads all at once as Tarasova suggested at Worlds.
I don't think they planned to add multiple quads, it was just 4S, but they have run into some sort of mental wall with it which they haven't yet been able to overcome. I think that's the reason they decided to at least try something else because banging your head against the wall is not exactly productive or rewarding. According to the interview, Mikhail's only real fear was not underrotating the quad lutz, not falling, but popping it, which says a lot about his state of mind after the unsuccessful 4S attempts. I am not sure which they plan to keep trying, which is what they need to make their minds about.
 
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