State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[Tavi...]

PH's initial comments about the SP were that Jason botched the quad and executed his triple axel poorly. Of course it's true that neither his 3A or his 4T were good, but for me his word choice was inflammatory rather than neutral. Others may disagree; it's JMHO. Hersh also didn't mention that it was Jason's 1st attempt at the 4T, despite having just written a column about how much he needs a quad to compete for a world medal. (He did mention it in the most recent article).

I'm willing to believe PH's harsh criticism stems from wanting Jason to succeed, or at least from a neutral POV, rather than because he's looking for opportunities to bash him, but I didn't like the tone of the SP article at all, and I appreciate his more moderate tone in this one.

 

[Mrs. P]

As harsh as Mr. Hersh is, I've definitely seen way more trash talking from sports writers/columnists.

Also keep in mind that Phil isn't a straight-news reporter. He straddles the line between reporting/columnist. His main platform online, Globetrotting, is a blog on Olympic sports. So it's more a mix of news/analysis. And he can push his viewpoint/opinions a little more.

Dealing with press, good or bad, is part of the process, especially in more high profile sports. Jason having to deal with one guy's view point (or at most a half-of-dozen people) is small potatoes compared to the DOZENS of of reporters who questioned Pete Carroll on why the heck he allowed that Super Bowl losing call at the end of the game. Or even the scrutiny that skaters in more popular countries, such as Japan or Korea, have to deal with.

ETA: Phil Hersh was interviewed by Allison Manley on her very popular podcast (which is currently on hiatus): http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-64-phil-hersh/

Some key points:

I feel like I’m telling the truth. I’ll make a couple of points which will probably make people angrier. Figure skating fans as a whole still think of these athletes as Dresden dolls, particularly the women, and that they shouldn’t be criticized. Let me remind you that these are mostly professional athletes. Once they get to the level of a world championship athlete, they are making some money, they are professional athletes, and because of the demands of the sport they are doing it full-time. So if the quarterback of the Bears throws four interceptions and costs his team the game, or if a figure skater falls several times, there is no difference in my mind to the coverage that person should get. It’s an athletic endeavor and should be criticized as an athletic endeavor.

And I think that a lot of figure skating fans are caught in this dilemma, they want the sport to be covered but they don’t want the warts to be covered. And that’s just not right. And anyone who thinks that I’m consistently negative need only read what I’ve written most recently about Yu-na Kim or about Patrick Chan’s short program or about Davis & White and the ice dance at the world championships, or go back over all the years and read the coverage. And they will find that the positive stories overwhelmingly outweigh the negative.

 

[ice coverage]

PH's initial comments about the SP were that Jason botched the quad and executed his triple axel poorly. Of course it's true that neither his 3A or his 4T were good, but for me his word choice was inflammatory rather than neutral. Others may disagree; it's JMHO. Hersh also didn't mention that it was Jason's 1st attempt at the 4T, despite having just written a column about how much he needs a quad to compete for a world medal. (He did mention it in the most recent article).

I'm willing to believe PH's harsh criticism stems from wanting Jason to succeed, or at least from a neutral POV, rather than because he's looking for opportunities to bash him, but I didn't like the tone of the SP article at all, and I appreciate his more moderate tone in this one.

Hmmm ... not picking a fight with you, but I honestly can't even guess which of the words Hersh chose for his post-SP story seemed inflammatory to you.
And the first sentence says that the quad attempt was Jason's first. (That said, I can't rule out the possibility that Hersh went back and tweaked the version of the story that you already had read???)
I've copied below the parts that were about Jason. Hersh's tone seems pretty neutral, IMO. YMMV. I can imagine Kori and Rohene saying to Jason something like, "It's not just a matter of getting the quad. You still have to execute your triple axel and skate better."

Jason Brown skates into quadruple and triple trouble

By Philip Hersh
Chicago Tribune
Feb 12
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...druple-and-triple-trouble-20150212-story.html​

It wasn’t merely a botched attempt at his first quadruple jump in competition that consigned U.S. champion Jason Brown to ninth place after Thursday’s short program at the Four Continents Championships in Seoul.
Another poor execution of a triple axel was equally to blame.
Brown, from Highland Park, wound up with just 75.86 points because the quad was downgraded to a triple and landed on two feet and the triple axel was under-rotated.
Only half his 10 triple Axels in major competitions this season have been landed cleanly. ...

"My goal was that I wanted to integrate a quad and do it to the best of my ability in that moment and once it was over, leave it there and continue on," Brown said via U.S. Figure Skating. "I’m really proud of that and I’m proud that I tried it."
The base value of the seven elements with which Brown had won the U.S. title was lower than those of the top six men Thursday – and more than four points below any of the top three. To compete for medals at the World Championships and Olympics, he needs both to add more difficulty such as the quad – and to skate better.​

As harsh as Mr. Hersh is, I've definitely seen way more trash talking from sports writers/columnists.

Also keep in mind that Phil isn't a straight-news reporter. He straddles the line between reporting/columnist. His main platform online, Globetrotting, is a blog on Olympic sports. So it's more a mix of news/analysis. And he can push his viewpoint/opinions a little more.

Dealing with press, good or bad, is part of the process, especially in more high profile sports. Jason having to deal with one guy's view point (or at most a half-of-dozen people) is small potatoes compared to the DOZENS of of reporters who questioned Pete Carroll on why the heck he allowed that Super Bowl losing call at the end of the game. Or even the scrutiny that skaters in more popular countries, such as Japan or Korea, have to deal with.

Thx, Mrs. P.

ETA, thx for going back to your post and adding the stuff that Hersh said to Allison Manley.
Indeed, I recently stumbled upon an old story that Hersh had written about ice dance, and he was absolutely singing its praises. :yay:​

 

[Tavi...]

Mrs. P & Golden - thx for your comments and insight. I'll be interested to hear the Alison Manley interview. By the way, what a great job she's done with the skatecast - hope she is enjoying her time off but also hope she comes back some day, & especially hope she finishes her interview with Rohene Ward - it was great, and they had a really nice rapport. But I digress.

Golden, I went back and looked at the SP article. It appears to me that he's edited it, because I'm positive there was initially no mention that it was Jason's first quad attempt in the article. Additionally, in the version I recall, the headline itself referenced his "botched" quad and there wasn't a link to the Jason Brown ups the ante article (nor do I recall the D10 picture). In its present state I can see why you don't find it inflammatory.

I'm a bit surprised, because I thought that when articles were edited it was noted (eg this article was updated at x o'clock....) and I don't see that here. Maybe I'm crazy, but honestly, as it now appears I don't think I would have gotten too upset about it, and I had a really strong negative opinion when I read it. I suppose it's possible I needed coffee or misread it and no changes have been made, but I honestly don't think that's the case. The truth is, I was really surprised that the same guy who interviewed Jason about his triple axel in 2011 and seemed so interested & encouraging was the same guy who so harshly criticized him for botching the quad.

 

[el henry]

Mrs. P & Golden - thx for your comments and insight. I'll be interested to hear the Alison Manley interview. By the way, what a great job she's done with the skatecast - hope she is enjoying her time off but also hope she comes back some day, & especially hope she finishes her interview with Rohene Ward - it was great, and they had a really nice rapport. But I digress.

Golden, I went back and looked at the SP article. It appears to me that he's edited it, because I'm positive there was initially no mention that it was Jason's first quad attempt in the article. Additionally, in the version I recall, the headline itself referenced his "botched" quad and there wasn't a link to the Jason Brown ups the ante article (nor do I recall the D10 picture). In its present state I can see why you don't find it inflammatory.

I'm a bit surprised, because I thought that when articles were edited it was noted (eg this article was updated at x o'clock....) and I don't see that here. Maybe I'm crazy, but honestly, as it now appears I don't think I would have gotten too upset about it, and I had a really strong negative opinion when I read it. I suppose it's possible I needed coffee or misread it and no changes have been made, but I honestly don't think that's the case. The truth is, I was really surprised that the same guy who interviewed Jason about his triple axel in 2011 and seemed so interested & encouraging was the same guy who so harshly criticized him for botching the quad.

I also believe it was edited, although I can't prove it for sure.

I understand that we all should be grateful that Phil Hersh is even writing about figure skating, because once he is gone, it is doubtful that any syndicated sportswriter will. But that does not excuse the snark.

I don't mind hard-hitting criticism, and I understand that athletes must be tough. I grew up as a fan of Philadelphia sports: you know, the ones who booed and threw snowballs (not fluffy ones, hard packed icy snowballs) at Santa Claus, the ones that had to have a court set up the Linc just to deal with rowdy fans. I give no quarter to anyone for "tough" when it comes to sports. Phil, when he talks about Jason lately, is not tough, but just snarky. "After much criticism" "Finally". Yeah, Phil, we get it. Leave out the little snark prepositions and adverbs, you'll look better and your writing will improve.

That said, Jason is a high level athlete, as they all are, and they need to learn to live with snark as well as toughness. Which I'm sure Jason is far better equipped to handle than I am.

 

[ice coverage]

Jason's excellent documentation of the camaraderie among the top five U.S. men :

Jason Brown
‏@jasonbskates

It's one awesome ongoing journey with these guys! #TeamUSA @USFigureSkating @joshdfarris #Max #Adam #Jeremy
1:07 PM - 6 Mar 2015
https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/573953011048783873 (tags for attached photo collage: Jeremy Abbott, Adam Rippon, U.S. Figure Skating and Max Aaron)​

 

[LyraAngelica]

You forgot the majesty that's Ilinykh/ Katsalapov Schlinder's List, complete with headwrap and all

Back to American men, I think they can keep their three spots in worlds as long as Josh and Jason are clean. Tbh, the Japanese men (except Hanyu) and Kovtun/Voronov are somewhat inconsistent. And as much as I love Javier, he rarely does clean programs back to back.

Paul Wylie's Schindler's list remains one of the most impressive programs I had a chance to see live. Anything after that is just meh, IMO

 

[yyyskate]

question about Nathan, I found that his shoulder and neck is very tight, seems he has a short neck and a bit hunched back, but he also has incredible relaxed arms like a dancer, I think he is also well-trained in dance. is nathan always like that, or it is just a period of his growth,injuries or too much jumping training. other than this problem, I think Nathan's skating is perfect. Can Nathan fix his neck problem?
EDIT: Maybe Nathan should wear deep V neck costume instead of high collar shirt to make his neck appeared longer?

 

[chuckm]

Nathan has had so much trouble dealing with leg and foot injuries as well as normal growth that I don't think his coach is overly concerned right now with his shoulders or his costumes. This has been a very tough year for Nathan and although he did a great job to finish 4th at JW, knowing his fierce competitiveness, for sure he was disappointed not to win a medal.

 

[Interspectator]

I just re-watched the Junior World performances, and my respect for Nathan has grown. His skating skills and foot work are so sharp, and so in-tune with the music. It must be terrible to have to skate with injuries but he did the best he could. His jump technique seems great except for his axels.

 

[chuckm]

The future is bright: 13-year-old Andrew Tornashev finished 10th at JW in his first try, and had the third highest PCS score, even though he doesn't have the 3a yet.

 

[Jaana]

The future is bright: 13-year-old Andrew Tornashev finished 10th at JW in his first try, and had the third highest PCS score, even though he doesn't have the 3a yet.

Thanks for bringing this skater up, I would have missed him otherwise. Yeah, he is impressive generally and the speed is excellent.

 

[ice coverage]

Very nice Twitter conversation btwn Razzano and Abbott.

The gist of it is here:

https://instagram.com/p/0ECn7jm8Ge/ (Mar 10)​

They both continue to love skating .

The future is bright: 13-year-old Andrew Tornashev finished 10th at JW in his first try, and had the third highest PCS score, even though he doesn't have the 3a yet.

Typo FYI for those completely new to Andrew's name:

chuckm meant to write "Torgashev" with a G.​

 

[dorispulaski]

golden, I would have thought @idreamofjeremy a fan rather than Jeremy himself?

 

[ice coverage]

golden, I would have thought @idreamofjeremy a fan rather than Jeremy himself?

99% sure that @idreamofjeremy is Jeremy himself. (IIRC, he has changed his Instagram ID more than once.)

From his verified Twitter account, Jeremy tweets links to @idreamofjeremy Instagram posts on a regular basis. He had done so in the case of the Instagram link under discussion:

Jeremy Abbott Verified account
‏@jeremyabbottpcf

Well said @douglasrazzano ! It's not logical, it's not rational, it's true love. Plain and simple.… https://instagram.com/p/0ECn7jm8Ge/
2:59 PM - 10 Mar 2015
https://twitter.com/jeremyabbottpcf/status/575415687939645440​

(Also: Ashley Wagner and other skater friends of Jeremy have tagged their Instagram photos with @idreamofjeremy.

ETA, example from Jason:
https://instagram.com/p/z5pQovzXGl/ = https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/573953011048783873)​

ETA, @idreamofjeremy's profile says that the account belongs to Jeremy. (But I guess Instagram does not verify any accounts?? ETA: Not quite true. See post #1059 below.)

https://instagram.com/idreamofjeremy/​

 

[dorispulaski]

If it is Jeremy's own, it seems a peculiar choice.

 

[ice coverage]

If it is Jeremy's own, it seems a peculiar choice.

I chalk it up to Jeremy's quirky sense of humor and/or perhaps an inside joke. YMMV.

In any case, based on Jeremy's verified tweet, we can be sure that he himself really did express his own support for Razzano's intention to "skate until my heart tells me 'no more'" .

---

ETA, Grant Hochstein re next season, per his journal published on Mar 11:

.... I’m really excited for next season and I feel like it’s my time again. I may not be on the podium yet, but I will get there. I believe that Peter, Karen and I can put together two really great programs for next season and that I can be a contender ....
http://figureskatersonline.com/granthochstein/site/journal-february-10-2015/​

 

[Violet Bliss]

The name Jeremy Abbott is listed under idreamofjeremy in the homepage.

 

[ice coverage]

The name Jeremy Abbott is listed under idreamofjeremy in the homepage.

Yes, I mentioned this piece of circumstantial "evidence" above. OTOH, in fairness to Doris, it is not absolute proof of anything.

For example, animals (such as Gracie Gold's dogs) have their own accounts.
And an "impostor" Instagram account opened by someone else in Jeremy's name would not be unthinkable.

I did get curious about verified accounts on Instagram, and discovered that it is not possible to request verification on Instagram -- but as of Dec 2014:

"Some accounts are verified by Instagram to let people know that they're authentic. ... The accounts with verified badges are some well-known public figures, celebrities and global brands on Instagram. These accounts have been given verified badges because they have a high likelihood of being impersonated ..."​

https://help.instagram.com/854227311295302/
https://help.instagram.com/398038890351915
https://help.instagram.com/733907830039577​

 

[ice coverage]

Jordan Moeller will keep his FS next season. Getting new SP (music not yet chosen) from Rohene Ward.

And BTW, Jordan is holding his fourth annual ice show for the benefit of kids with cancer. Apr 25 in Illinois.
Jordan's cast this year will include "Jason Brown, Mariah Bell, Tyler Pierce, Ashley Cain, Jimmy Ma, ice dancer Daniel Klaber (skating solo) and two synchronized teams, Radiance and the Western Michigan collegiate team."

More information:
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015/03/17/113021566 (Mar 17)