2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating | Page 7 | Golden Skate

2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating

el henry said:
Hello Mrrice, a Japanese fan at Glacier Falls tweeted that Sean [Rabbitt] had said that Ricky [Dornbush] was taking off the year and perhaps coming back for the Oly year. I do not have the link here, but it is in Japanese which a poster on FSU kindly translated. I understand full well that it is fourth hand, but so far it is all I've seen.

AFAIK, Alex is training, but I cannot say for sure.
Click to expand...

Thanks El Henry, I knew that Ricky wanted to go to the Olympics in 2018 and if 2017 will be his Senior Year, I think its in his best interest to finish school while he can. My Junior year was the hardest year of my life. So hard in fact, that I left school and went on another tour. I read that Richard is a physics major so I can imagine how challenging his life at school must be.
 
karne said:
On John Wilson Blades' instagram they have a clip of Nathan doing a 3T at Sun Valley and saying that he'll in the show tonight.
Click to expand...

Seems that JWB called Nathan's jump a quad when it tweeted the same (I think it is the same?) video from Sun Valley.

I don't trust my own eyes, so I don't know whether it is a quad or a triple?

Anyway, Merry Neitlich tweeted that Nathan has a new show program choreographed by Phillip Mills.
[My guess is that she was not in Sun Valley herself, but that she had heard from Phillip and/or Nathan about the new program.]

Appears (I think?) that Nathan has been training back in California (as opposed to Colorado Springs, which had been a long stop on his road to recovery).
Michael Christian Martinez's photo with Nathan:
It does not have a locator, but other MCM photos from the same timeframe do.

mrrice said:
... So I watched Nationals and I realized that I haven't heard any news about Alexander Johnson. Does anyone know how he's doing this summer? ...
Click to expand...

Alex Johnson placed third at Skate Detroit.
http://web.icenetwork.com/photos/191642102 (see caption for photo #1)​

Mrs. P has his score-tracker and program information in the OP of this thread.
 
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ice coverage said:
Seems that JWB called Nathan's jump a quad when it tweeted the same (I think it is the same?) video from Sun Valley.

I don't trust my own eyes, so I don't know whether it is a quad or a triple?

Anyway, Merry Neitlich tweeted that Nathan has a new show program choreographed by Phillip Mills.
[My guess is that she was not in Sun Valley herself, but that she had heard from Phillip and/or Nathan about the new program.]

Appears (I think?) that Nathan has been training back in California (as opposed to Colorado Springs, which had been a long stop on his road to recovery).
Michael Christian Martinez's photo with Nathan:
It does not have a locator, but other MCM photos from the same timeframe do.



Alex Johnson placed third at Skate Detroit.
http://web.icenetwork.com/photos/191642102 (see caption for photo #1)​

Mrs. P has his score-tracker and program information in the OP of this thread.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ice Coverage, that's a great picture of Alex and Marai.
 
ice coverage said:
Seems that JWB called Nathan's jump a quad when it tweeted the same (I think it is the same?) video from Sun Valley.

I don't trust my own eyes, so I don't know whether it is a quad or a triple?

Anyway, Merry Neitlich tweeted that Nathan has a new show program choreographed by Phillip Mills.
[My guess is that she was not in Sun Valley herself, but that she had heard from Phillip and/or Nathan about the new program.]

Appears (I think?) that Nathan has been training back in California (as opposed to Colorado Springs, which had been a long stop on his road to recovery).
Michael Christian Martinez's photo with Nathan:
It does not have a locator, but other MCM photos from the same timeframe do.



Alex Johnson placed third at Skate Detroit.
http://web.icenetwork.com/photos/191642102 (see caption for photo #1)​

Mrs. P has his score-tracker and program information in the OP of this thread.
Click to expand...

Nathan's jump looks too have to many rotations to be a triple so i think it was a quad.
 
Great to see that even after having major surgery the kid is still able to land quads. Now Raphael needs to make sure that Nathan doesn't overdo it again.
 
Forward-thinking Lakernik hints at changes to IJS
ISU figure skating VP discusses creation of artistic-specific program
Posted 8/18/16
by Lois Elfman, special to icenetwork
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/16/196138174​

The part about a long-term plan for separate technical and artistic programs/medals was something new to me.
(I was unaware :hopelessness: that the concept was in Lakernik's vision statement at the time of the ISU VP election.)

Excerpt from today's IN article:

Icenetwork: In your vision statement, you mentioned bringing more distinction between the short program and the free skate. What do you envision?

Lakernik: Now, these programs are too similar and the difference is only the number of difficult elements, by example in singles, the number of jumps. A long-term plan is to have two quite different programs: one more technical and one more artistic. The technical program could be something like current short programs or free skates. The artistic program could contain less difficult elements with a focus on the program presentation. The programs could be equal in length. This way, we can increase the number of medals by having technical, artistic and maybe overall winners.​

ETA:

I now have looked up the excerpt below from Lakernik's "Motivation of the Candidate" page (dated Mar 10) within an ISU pre-election document:
3) “Short program” and “free skating” could have a bigger difference in their content, the first being more technical and the second more artistic; finally we could arrive to (actual and not “small”) medals for each part as well as for their combination.
http://isu.org/council16/President-and-Council-2016.pdf (see page 25 of ginormous 115-page PDF; Lakernik section is on pages 22-26)​

Note that his vision as published today in the IN article is that the technical and artistic programs "could be equal in length" -- which seems (IMO) to be an important update (or clarification?) compared to what he wrote in March.​
 
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ice coverage said:
Forward-thinking Lakernik hints at changes to IJS
ISU figure skating VP discusses creation of artistic-specific program
Posted 8/18/16
by Lois Elfman, special to icenetwork
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/16/196138174​

The part about a long-term plan for separate technical and artistic programs/medals was something new to me.
(I was unaware :hopelessness: that the concept was in Lakernik's vision statement at the time of the ISU VP election.)

Excerpt from today's IN article:
Icenetwork: In your vision statement, you mentioned bringing more distinction between the short program and the free skate. What do you envision?

Lakernik: Now, these programs are too similar and the difference is only the number of difficult elements, by example in singles, the number of jumps. A long-term plan is to have two quite different programs: one more technical and one more artistic. The technical program could be something like current short programs or free skates. The artistic program could contain less difficult elements with a focus on the program presentation. The programs could be equal in length. This way, we can increase the number of medals by having technical, artistic and maybe overall winners.​
Click to expand...

Whoa! This is totally off topic from the overall thread, but this is fascinating! and actually could good be a really good idea!
 
aromaticchicken said:
Whoa! This is totally off topic from the overall thread, but this is fascinating! and actually could good be a really good idea!
Click to expand...

Not off topic, IMO.
The technical vs. artistic dichotomy has been a major recurring theme of U.S. men's threads in past years.
Thus my belief that participants in this thread would find today's IN article of interest.

(Obviously not claiming that this thread is the one and only place that would be suitable for conversation re the technical/artistic dichotomy. I would be happy for today's article to be discussed elsewhere on GS too.)

ETA:
I should note that I am not among those who do not care about quads. I like quads. I like artistry as well.
And I am not sure whether I think Lakernik's vision is a good solution to addressing the dichotomy. But it certainly would be a big change to IJS.​
 
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I like this, thinking outside the box.

And although I may bemoan their effect, I don't *hate* quads. I hate what happens to an otherwise well constructed, well skated, and beautifully interpreted program simply to insert a quad. I have not seen many skaters successfully do both artistry and quads. Rather, I have seen more skaters present less than compelling (to me) programs just to land a quad. And skate. And land another quad. Maybe. If they can. Cause yippee ay yay, it's a sport, gosh darn it!

So Lakernik's idea, at least, intrigues me:agree:
 
I think this would be an absolutely awful idea and would just increase the amount of animosity between the "pro-quad" and "anti-quad" camps.

"Oh, xyz won did he? Oh, but you know he ONLY won the JUMPS part, that makes him so awful and such a terrible skater!" Oh yes, I can hear it now.

Not to mention, once again: WHAT, exactly, is artistic? Because not every judge is going to go by the USFS' snob-nosed narrow-minded definition. And oh how I can hear the howls now if someone who is artistic but perhaps in an unconventional style won the artistic medal... :no:
 
el henry said:
I like this, thinking outside the box.

And although I may bemoan their effect, I don't *hate* quads. I hate what happens to an otherwise well constructed, well skated, and beautifully interpreted program simply to insert a quad. I have not seen many skaters successfully do both artistry and quads. Rather, I have seen more skaters present less than compelling (to me) programs just to land a quad. And skate. And land another quad. Maybe. If they can. Cause yippee ay yay, it's a sport, gosh darn it!

So Lakernik's idea, at least, intrigues me:agree:
Click to expand...

Me, too. :yes:

I'm happy to see someone in a position to investigate options, who is cognizant of what the sport of figure skating has lost because of the emphasis on quads for the men, and upping the technical content in other ways for ladies and pairs.

In addition to the quad debate, it's become about the fact that everyone in a particular discipline ends up doing nearly the same elements, because they have to, if they want to earn enough points to be competitive.

So that in itself takes away from the artistic value of the programs, because a large part of artistry is what the choreographer can create for a piece of music, combined with what the skater can express with that music, his/her movement, and emotion. Not that a few skaters or teams can't do it; Worlds proved they can, esp. Javier, Ashley, Gabrielle/ Guilliame, and Adam in their FS; and Sui/Han in their SP. This makes it thrilling when you do see those skates, but much harder for the top 10 to come up to that level.
 
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Tavi... said:
According to TSL, many quads landed by top guys at Champs Camp, including Jason. No real details yet. Speculate away!

https://twitter.com/skatinglesson/status/768104221594058752
Click to expand...

I will withhold my comments until I see visual proof. It's not surprising to hear about Max landing several quads but, Jason. That will be a big thrill. Now that Joshua is retired and Ricky is out for the season, we need an artistic quad jumper to accompany the athletic and powerful, Max Arron. I can't wait to see these quads on video. :cheer2:
 
Don't forget to mention Nathan, Adam, and Grant. The tweet mentioned quad lutz. Vincent may surprise us all too. And Ross; this is OT but I hope he keeps NY State of MInd. It was glorious at nationals.

I'm thrilled to hear Jason's doing 4S and 4T, but I'm not surprised. Looking forward to seeing .... all of them!
 
skylark said:
Don't forget to mention Nathan, Adam, and Grant. The tweet mentioned quad lutz. Vincent may surprise us all too. And Ross; this is OT but I hope he keeps NY State of MInd. It was glorious at nationals.

I'm thrilled to hear Jason's doing 4S and 4T, but I'm not surprised. Looking forward to seeing .... all of them!
Click to expand...

Tim D, too, I bet. I guess we will see the first "State of Some of the US Men's quads" at Lombardia. Jason, Grant, Max. Could we see multiple quads landed by all of them???? Inquiring minds want to know!
 
Tavi... said:
Tim D, too, I bet. I guess we will see the first "State of Some of the US Men's quads" at Lombardia. Jason, Grant, Max. Could we see multiple quads landed by all of them???? Inquiring minds want to know!
Click to expand...

It sounds like Jason was telling his fan club in Japan that he is planning at least one quad (no idea the type) in each of this programs in Lombardia... so yeah we might start seeing something interesting at that event.

I just hope everyone remembers it is still August and does not get burned out. Pacing is an issue.
 
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