2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating

[Mrs. P]

Pushing this thread up now that we've completed our first senior B.

I've started a new spreadsheet and there's not a whole lot obviously, so will provide some limited information. Basically top 5 overall, SP and FS. This is a bit of a mix of junior and seniors (nationally) but it gives a nice lay of the land, especially since as of right now we only have three seniors out in senior B competition. In a few weeks, I'll give more detailed information.

Overall
Jason Brown 256.49 (Lombardia Trophy)
Vincent Zhou 226.39 (JGP Yokohama)
Alexei Krasnozhon 223.60 (JGP Czech Skate)
Max Aaron 218.73 (Lombardia Trophy)
Grant Hochstein 198.77 (Lombardia Trophy)

SP Total
Brown 81.58 (Lombardia)
Zhou 80.53 (Yokohama)
Krasnozhon 75.10 (Czech Skate)
Aaron 72.93 (Lombardia)
Hochstein 61.44 (Lombardia

FS Total
Brown 174.91 (Lombardia)
Krasnozhon 148.50 (Czech Skate)
Aaron 145.80 (Lombardia)
Zhou 144.57 (Yokohama)
Hochstein 133.82 (Lombardia)

This coming week:
Salt Lake City: The season debut of Adam Rippon, Ross Miner and Sean Rabbit! Back-to-Back for Jason Brown.
JGP Mordovia: The return of Andrew Torgashev! JGP debut of Eric Sjoberg (who is coached by Arutunian).

 

[Tavi...]

I'm always perplexed that Grant is scored so harshly on the PCS side. I get that he made technical errors at Lombardia but I think he was way underscored in PCS.

 

[karne]

^TBF, the scoring was pretty whack at Lombardia.

 

[Tavi...]

^TBF, the scoring was pretty whack at Lombardia.

How?

 

[Mrs. P]

According to various entry lists, Alexander Johnson will be at Ondrej Nepala Memorial (Sept. 29-Oct. 1; per event website, nothing on ISU page yet) and Nathan Chen will be at Finlandia Trophy (Oct. 6-9; Timothy Dolensky and Johnson are listed as subs). Keep in mind it's not "official" until it's on the USFSA assignments page and changes are occasionally made: http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84032&menu=TeamUSA

So here's the roundup of Senior B's from the U.S. Men (Nationals ranking in 2016)
- Lombardia Trophy: Jason Brown (S1-2015), Max Aaron (S2), Grant Hochstein (S4)
- U.S. Figure Skating Classic (this weekend) : Brown, Adam Rippon (S1), Ross Miner (S5), Sean Rabbit (S9)
- Nebelhorn Trophy (Sept. 22-24): Tim Dolensky (S7), Hochstein
- Autumn Classic (Sept. 28-Oct. 1): Aaron
- Ondrej Nepala Memorial (Sept. 29-Oct. 1): Johnson (S6) (preliminary)
- Finlandia Trophy (Oct. 6-9): Chen (S3) (preliminary)

Adam Rippon will also be at the Japan Open on the weekend of Oct. 1 (same weekend as Autumn Classic/Nepala). He will only do his free skate there.

With Vincent Zhou (S8), Torgahev (J1-2015, who was going to compete senior nationally before getting injured last season) and Hiwatashi (J1; he is anticipated to move up to senior nationally) at JGP, we basically will have a good lay of the land of the top U.S. men before the GP.

***
Because I'm bored. This year's U.S. Men's field includes:
* Two 4CC medalists (Miner (2012-bronze); Rippon, (2010-gold)
* Four GP medalists (Brown, Aaron, Rippon, Miner)
* Three different U.S. Champions (Rippon, Brown, Aaron)
* Six different U.S. medalists (includes pewter: The three aformentioned, plus Chen, Miner and Hochstein).
* Six consecutive past junior U.S. champs (Hiwatashi, Torgashev, Chen (2012/2014), Zhou (2013), Aaron, Brown)
* Five past Jr. World medalists (Hiwatshi (2016-bronze); Chen (2014- bronze); Brown (2013-silver, 2012-bronze); Shotaro Omori (2013-bronze); Rippon (gold -2008-2009)
* Three JGPF gold medalists (Chen (2015-2016); Brown (2011-2012); Rippon (2007-2008). Richard Dornbush also won in 2010-2011. Ross Miner is a JGPF medalist from 2009-2010.

** Richard Dornbush is also a past GP medalist, U.S. medalist and JGPF gold medalist, but world is he's not competing this season. Also Jeremy Abbott has not announced a comeback, otherwise I would have listed him above as well.

It's interesting to look at these stats. On one hand, it speaks to the depth of this men's field, but also a source of frustration cause it hasn't -- yet -- translated to huge success on the senior field in the big competitions, i.e. Worlds.

 

[charmblade]

I really hope Alex Johnson gets to go to Ondrej Nepala. He is one of my favorites (although, I could say that about pretty every single of the US men competing internationally, I love them all for different reasons!). I'm definitely excited to see Torgashev this weekend, to see how he looks after so long away.

I share Mrs. P's frustration on the lack of results in the senior international championships. We have so much talent in the US, and it's just not working out at the highest level. There are a lot of very strong US junior men though, and we're seeing most of our top seniors making slow but steady progress as well. I'll just keep cheering for everyone and hope for the best.

 

[Tavi...]

According to various entry lists, Alexander Johnson will be at Ondrej Nepala Memorial (Sept. 29-Oct. 1; per event website, nothing on ISU page yet) and Nathan Chen will be at Finlandia Trophy (Oct. 6-9; Timothy Dolensky and Johnson are listed as subs). Keep in mind it's not "official" until it's on the USFSA assignments page and changes are occasionally made: http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84032&menu=TeamUSA

So here's the roundup of Senior B's from the U.S. Men (Nationals ranking in 2016)
- Lombardia Trophy: Jason Brown (S1-2015), Max Aaron (S2), Grant Hochstein (S4)
- U.S. Figure Skating Classic (this weekend) : Brown, Adam Rippon (S1), Ross Miner (S5), Sean Rabbit (S9)
- Nebelhorn Trophy (Sept. 22-24): Tim Dolensky (S7), Hochstein
- Autumn Classic (Sept. 28-Oct. 1): Aaron
- Ondrej Nepala Memorial (Sept. 29-Oct. 1): Johnson (preliminary)
- Finlandia Trophy (Oct. 6-9): Chen (S3) (preliminary)

Adam Rippon will also be at the Japan Open on the weekend of Oct. 1 (same weekend as Autumn Classic/Nepala). He will only do his free skate there.

With Vincent Zhou (S8), Torgahev (J1-2015, who was going to compete senior nationally before getting injured last season) and Hiwatashi (J1; he is anticipated to move up to senior nationally) at JGP, we basically will have a good lay of the land of the top U.S. men before the GP.

***
Because I'm bored. This year's U.S. Men's field includes:
* Two 4CC medalists (Miner (2012-bronze); Rippon, (2010-gold)
* Four GP medalists (Brown, Aaron, Rippon, Miner_
* Three different U.S. Champions (Rippon, Brown, Aaron)
* Six different U.S. medalists (includes pewter: The three aformentioned, plus Chen, Miner and Hochstein).
* Six consecutive past junior U.S. champs (Hiwatashi, Torgashev, Chen (2012/2014), Zhou (2013), Aaron, Brown)
* Four past Jr. World medalists (Hiwatshi (2016-bronze), Chen (2014- bronze) Brown (2013-silver, 2012-bronze), Rippon (gold -2008-2009)
* Three JGPF gold medalists (Chen (2015-2016); Brown (2011-2012); Rippon (2007-2008). Richard Dornbush also won in 2010-2011. Ross Miner is a JGPF medalist from 2009-2010.

** Richard Dornbush is also a past GP medalist, U.S. medalist and JGPF gold medalist, but world is he's not competing this season

It's interesting to look at these stats. On one hand, it speaks to the depth of this men's field, but also a source of frustration cause it hasn't -- yet -- translated to huge success on the senior field in the big competitions, i.e. Worlds.

Thanks for rounding up all that info!

It appears that USFS is finally seeing value in pitting its top senior men against tough competition earlier on - this season, at least, Sr Bs aren't just a way to gain world points and get your programs in shape; they also seem to be about stimulating the urge to win.

Right now it seems really premature to try and figure out anything. Although Jason did well at Lombardia, his quad, despite being ratified, is still a work in progress - and so many guys are doing more than one now that he's really playing catch up. Max and Grant both have new programs, so it's really to early to say anything about them. Based on summer comps, Tim and Nathan both look like they could be strong factors this year. Both have good programs and both seem to be jumping well. For the moment Nathan seems healthy, and seems to be focusing on improving PCS; we know he's got a killer competitive instinct, so if he really breaks out this season, it won't be surprising!

 

[Mrs. P]

Lots of U.S. Men's short programs to watch!

JGP Cup of Mordovia:
Eric Sjorberg, the 2016 Novice champ, made his debut.
It was a lovely debut. I really liked that he skated to a Rachmaninov piece that we don't see (Trio Elegiaque No. 1). I like that he is very intentional with his movements and liked the Rippon variation on the 2A, again something you don't see very often. I do agree that he needs a bit more speed and power and his jumps can be a little bit tighter, but I think that will come with time.

Andrew Torgashev, the 2015 U.S. Junior Men's champ, is back after a season away. This program to Norte Dame is wonderful for him. His jumps are a bit rusty, but I'm sure that he'll have them cleaned up as the season goes on. But so much drama and he had the power to back it up! He really has some of the best skating skills among the junior men right now.

U.S. International Figure Skating Classic:

Adam Rippon: Adam loves this program to Fedde Le Grand's "Let Me Think About it" , it's clear in the performance. He sells it well. Lots of sass and camp. I agree with others it was a bit toned down, but I agree it will probably show up more with some mileage. (However, my favorite Fedde Le Grand song is this one (warning the video is NSFW). )

Jason Brown: What can I say, Sam Smith was a little bit bearable as I like this program more. He skated this program, on the whole, better here than in Lombardia. And the quad inches a bit closer.

Ross Miner: Oh Ross. He was doing well then he totally biffed the combo. not a great day in the office, but still a lot to like about this Billy Joel SP.

Sean Rabbit: A really nice skate from Sean today. I like that I'm seeing signs of improvement with every season. He's really worked on his flow.

 

[Princessroja]

Lots of U.S. Men's short programs to watch!

JGP Cup of Mordovia:
Eric Sjorberg, the 2016 Novice champ, made his debut.
It was a lovely debut. I really liked that he skated to a Rachmaninov piece that we don't see (Trio Elegiaque No. 1). I like that he is very intentional with his movements and liked the Rippon variation on the 2A, again something you don't see very often. I do agree that he needs a bit more speed and power and his jumps can be a little bit tighter, but I think that will come with time.

Andrew Torgashev, the 2015 U.S. Junior Men's champ, is back after a season away. This program to Norte Dame is wonderful for him. His jumps are a bit rusty, but I'm sure that he'll have them cleaned up as the season goes on. But so much drama and he had the power to back it up! He really has some of the best skating skills among the junior men right now.

U.S. International Figure Skating Classic:

Adam Rippon: Adam loves this program to Fedde Le Grand's "Let Me Think About it" , it's clear in the performance. He sells it well. Lots of sass and camp. I agree with others it was a bit toned down, but I agree it will probably show up more with some mileage. (However, my favorite Fedde Le Grand song is this one (warning the video is NSFW). )

Jason Brown: What can I say, Sam Smith was a little bit bearable as I like this program more. He skated this program, on the whole, better here than in Lombardia. And the quad inches a bit closer.

Ross Miner: Oh Ross. He was doing well then he totally biffed the combo. not a great day in the office, but still a lot to like about this Billy Joel SP.

Sean Rabbit: A really nice skate from Sean today. I like that I'm seeing signs of improvement with every season. He's really worked on his flow.

I was really impressed with both Eric and Sean. Both very lovely performances--relaxed, happy, the kind of performance that makes you relaxed and happy to watch, you know? And I didn't see the protocols for Eric but Sean had a totally clean performance too.

 

[yyyskate]

really glad to see a skate like Jason's, his attitude towards figure skating is really inspirational, never rush, never compromise, stay true to himself, just work hard on every challenge one step at a time. He was lucky to be born at US. a country gives room to a skater like him.

 

[temadd]

I was really impressed with both Eric and Sean. Both very lovely performances--relaxed, happy, the kind of performance that makes you relaxed and happy to watch, you know? And I didn't see the protocols for Eric but Sean had a totally clean performance too.

I appreciate that Sean was emoting during the program but it felt forced and over the top. The build of the music is gentle and he was acting like it was loud and bold. Too much cheese for me.

 

[Mrs. P]

really glad to see a skate like Jason's, his attitude towards figure skating is really inspirational, never rush, never compromise, stay true to himself, just work hard on every challenge one step at a time. He was lucky to be born at US. a country gives room to a skater like him.

Yes, i might have been tougher if he was in Japan, for instance. Though Akiko Suzuki was able to be a late bloomer there, so who knows. And even in the U.S., it is SO easy to succumb to try to keep up with the Joneses and I think even he tried rush things last year and he paid for that with the injury.

Kori said something during a Champs Camp interview that she has to sometimes remind Jason that he needs to go at his own pace and not try to be Shoma or Yuzuru.

Here it is:

Kori Ade, who coaches Brown in Monument, Colorado, thinks the injury may help Brown in the long run.
"He got to sit back and gain perspective and say, 'I don't need to be Shoma [Uno], I don't need to be Yuzuru [Hanyu] -- I need to be me,'" she said. "He matured a lot during this injury."

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2016/08/29/197784636/late-bloomer-rippon-hopes-to-revive-quad-toe

 

[mrrice]

I don't know if this is a hijack but, who is Andrew TORGASHEV? I just watched his free skate from Mordovia and I felt like I was watching a really young Alexander Abt. Then I saw that he was from the US and was shocked as I have never heard him talked about at all.

 

[el henry]

I don't know if this is a hijack but, who is Andrew TORGASHEV? I just watched his free skate from Mordovia and I felt like I was watching a really Alexander Abt. Then I saw that he was from the US and was shocked as I have never heard him talked about at all.

I don't know Alexander Abt (must be from the time I wasn't watching), but I started watching Andrew Torgashev in Juniors in 2014 and he was my fav junior then. Such presence and flair for a youngster (and we all know how I prize presence and flair!) Then he was injured for all of last year. But it looks like he is starting off with another good year this year.

 

[mrrice]

I don't know Alexander Abt (must be from the time I wasn't watching), but I started watching Andrew Torgashev in Juniors in 2014 and he was my fav junior then. Such presence and flair for a youngster (and we all know how I prize presence and flair!) Then he was injured for all of last year. But it looks like he is starting off with another good year this year.

Alexander Abt was, and is, a dreamy looking skater from Russia. He was coached Raf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJJHt7nCXVk He was smooth as silk and a very dramatic performer.

 

[Mrs. P]

Well, good news to mrrice and el henry's favorite: Andrew Torgashev set a new personal best (139.44) in his free skate to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody. He also set a personal best overall (204.91) to win his first junior grand prix medal (silver).

Eric Sjorberg finished 7th scored 117.49 (177.21 overall, 7th) in his free skate to Poeta en el mar by Vincent Amigo

***

Jason Brown won the U.S. Figure Skating Classic with a score of 254.04: Short program; free skate
BONUS: Here's Jason on the JGP 4 years ago (nearly to the day; the video is dated Sept. 22, 2012).

Adam Rippon won bronze with a score of 248.24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxuFKp_pZW0; Free Skate
Here's Adam at JGPF in 2007.

Ross Miner placed 6th with a score 214.48 Short program; Free Skate
Ross Miner on the JGP Croatia Cup in 2009.

Sean Rabbit placed 7th with a score of 209.66 Short program; Free Skate
No JGP videos for Sean, but here's his free skate at Pacific Coast Sectionals from 2010. Sean's come a long way!

 

[mrrice]

^^^Thank you so much Mrs. P I have a good feeling about Andrew and I will definitely keep my eye on him. Did you all notice his "Dab" while he was sitting with his Father. That was cute.

 

[shmay]

I'll echo the general criticism of Adam's FS. It's nice that he likes the music, but I think the response from the majority of spectators will be that the program doesn't really add up to an overall emotional arc. Also, his stroking has unfortunately not improved, and this music just exacerbates it.

Also also...what is it with pantomime this season? Clearly this is not just a Moscow problem. Adam looks like he's doing vogue dramatics at the beginning of his FS. Like he watched Paris is Burning one too many times.

 

[TMC]

I'm just freaked out by Adam's music, because in the beginning it sounds like it's the same as Jason's.

 

[el henry]

Well, good news to mrrice and el henry's favorite: Andrew Torgashev set a new personal best (139.44) in his free skate to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody. He also set a personal best overall (204.91) to win his first junior grand prix medal (silver).

....

My favorite junior is back, and he is skating his LP to, sob (not in a good way ) Queen. And Bohemian Rhapsody, my least favorite Queen. Although truth be told, that is the strangest cut of BoRap I have ever heard.

And, after Adam's LP and the singer who can't carry a tune in a bucket, well I'll give Freddie Mercury his props: at least he could sing.