2016 NHK Trophy Free Dance

[ancientpeas]

And yet some people would say that Shibs slow down before the twizzles and therefore make them easier than a team that heads into them with total abandon and at break neck speed. I am not one of these people but I've seen it argued here.

You tube is a terrible place but there are worse ones. People should be able to dislike something, say they dislike it without being insulting and rude and without being insulted back. The death of civil discourse is a sad fact of life.

I have, for example, a Davis and White problem in that I've never liked their skating much. I can watch it, acknowledge that it's great skating and yet feel nothing when they skate and I have no idea why. I think they deserve their Olympic victory but even though I am fan of Virtue and Moir I didn't like their programs at the Olympics either. So it's not that I'm a V/M fan and therefor not a D/W fan. I want to like them but I just don't. It's not hatred or seething resentment (I have no idea how people watch figure skating with those kind of thoughts in their head) but rather a big ole "meh". My favourite routines for the Olympic year were Péchalat and Bourzat little prince FD and Weaver and Poje's SD. Were they the best? No. But they were my favourites. Maybe we need to learn to distinguish between what is the best skating and what is our favourite skating. Not the same things in the end.

I dread, dread, dread (3 dreads is a hairdo) +5. Not that there are not elements that deserve a plus 5 but because I don't like how GOEs seem to be tossed around as it is. Give them more weight and it could just become a big boondoggle if the judges don't do it fairly.

 

[NanaPat]

Shibutani's twizzles are unbeatable, no one can do that like them.

If only twizzles were the only judged element!

This.
The Shibutani's twizzles are on a whole other level. I've seen many good teams twizzles V/M and D/W. Even they couldn't hold a candle to the ShibSibs!

If only the twizzles were judged in a way to reflect the Shibs superiority. Over the past couple of years, I felt that a number of the top teams were given very good marks for twizzles that were obviously flawed. It's not that I want twizzles to be the only judged element, but I do want them to be judged fairly.

It is very hard for the casual viewer to judge the depth of an edge, or if a key point is achieved in the SD. It's much easier to see if a team is out-of-sync, or hesitant, or has unmatched positions or unmatched ice coverage on the twizzles. So maybe viewers do give too much weight to them. But I feel sometimes the judges give too little weight by over-generous scoring.

 

[rvi5]

...The death of civil discourse is a sad fact of life...

The "lack of" has probably always been that way underneath. However, the anonymity of the internet has allowed it to become more public.

 

[nevergonnadance]

Exactly. The video feed for the tech specialists is very specific for looking at positions and edges. It is much more specific and clear than what we would look at on TV. If there is any question on what levels to call an element, the tech specialists will review the element on their feed. Step sequences are especially picky, from the little kids to the seniors, and are often reviewed.

The tech feed should be shown to the audiences. Sport is entertainment. There is no other purpose for it. Other sports show what the refs see, what the umpires see, what stewards see. Figure skating is not so arcane that we would not immediately understand the same thing the judges and tech callers see, looking at the same feed.

 

[sowcow]

The tech feed should be shown to the audiences. Sport is entertainment. There is no other purpose for it. Other sports show what the refs see, what the umpires see, what stewards see. Figure skating is not so arcane that we would not immediately understand the same thing the judges and tech callers see, looking at the same feed.

Absolutely agree.

The tech feed should be available after each competition.

Further, I think any and all specific technical feeds re-watched/reviewed by the tech panel should be identified as such; perhaps even indicating (by use of color tint or saturation, or by superimposed text) which specific video clips demonstrated/convinced the panel that an error was committed (...a jump pre-rotated / under-rotated / weak edges in step sequence / incorrect turns / spins with missing 'required' rotations / incorrect spin position / etc.).

 

[matcha]

They are really going to benefit from that +5 SOV when that's in place.

Wait, seriously? Next quad?

 

[rvi5]

TV cameras are typically used for artistic shots, showing facial closeups, and not necessarily the skaters whole body or feet on jump takeoffs/landings. The advantage is, there are a lot more TV cameras. At SCI, there was three on a platform above/behind the judges, one at each end of the rink, one across from the judges, and another for the aerial shots. In some cases, there may be a remote camera on a zip line. The tech camera would likely be taking closeup full body shots at all times, but I think there is only one.

At SCI, the only non-TV camera I could see was located at the end of the judges bench at ice level, on the K&C side. That is also the end where the tech people sat (above and behind the other judges). I would think the judges and tech panel would have a limited viewing angle with only the one camera. Especially if a skater's program is designed to perform a problematic 'e' jump at the opposite end, on the judges side of the rink. The judges, tech panel, and the camera would have an acute angle view. Which may be why some 'e' or '!' calls get missed. I guess it would be hopeless to ask if anyone has ever sat somewhere behind the judges and seen their monitors during a competition? At SCI, views from behind the judges bench are obstructed.

P.S. Wasn't there already another thread somewhere discussing this broadcasting judges feed topic?

 

[bixby]

Shibutani's twizzles are unbeatable, no one can do that like them.

They have the BEST twizzles in my opinion.

I kind of question as to why everyone is awarded level 4 + GOE and getting the same exact score as the Shibutani's when it's obvious theirs blows everyone else. If you put it side to side to the top three finishers here, they should get at least .01 or .02 or .03 or .04 or .05 higher than them. Though I don't have the list of each one of them getting exactly 8.04 for the twizzles every time or the Shibutani's being slightly higher, but I'm of the idea that there should be some difference. If 1 whole point is too much, I'll take half if that's reasonable. Better yet a level 5 for them. I don't know...

A difference in score at least because it's on another kind of "great" compare to other competitors' "greats".

 

[NoNameFace]

I like P/C a lot but watching the two teams back-to-back was really eye-opening. P/C really have had no real competition these past two years. They don't quite have P/C's fluid, airy qualities, but V/M's speed and power was just incredible to watch. The rink could hardly contain them. I feel like they're so much faster than they were in 2014.

this to the bolded above.

I was apprehensive towards their comeback despite being their long-time fan, I can't deny that, but it looks like they really took a correct and 'reasonable' approach for it. In my opinion they came at peace with all they succeeded/achieved until Sochi and want to build on that experience, instead of going into constant game of proving themselves/being first all the time. At the same time I see that poise, a strive to compete foremost, not only to win - looking at their skating now for me, they definitely look better than the quad leading to Sochi, there is more power there, looks like they really capitalized on that hiatus and benefitted from it. Also, performance-wise, I think their maturity and all experience are now paying off, because in my case, even if I'm not a fan of the program (FD), I totally can appreciate the level of performance they produce.

And I just want to stress how happy I am to see Tessa so much in 'her game' again - for me she is just a mesmerizing dancer and performer to watch, so very versatile that I can't recall the style/convention she has not succeed in. As for her skating - it really seems 'bigger' and stronger now despite this leg issues.

 

[viennaskater]

I have, for example, a Davis and White problem in that I've never liked their skating much. I can watch it, acknowledge that it's great skating and yet feel nothing when they skate and I have no idea why. I think they deserve their Olympic victory but even though I am fan of Virtue and Moir I didn't like their programs at the Olympics either. So it's not that I'm a V/M fan and therefor not a D/W fan. I want to like them but I just don't. It's not hatred or seething resentment (I have no idea how people watch figure skating with those kind of thoughts in their head) but rather a big ole "meh".

I feel the same whenever Chan takes to the ice. His skating is so soulless, I am left completely unmoved, which is never the case with for example, Hanyu or Papadakis/Cizeron.

My favourite routines for the Olympic year were Péchalat and Bourzat little prince FD and Weaver and Poje's SD. Were they the best? No. But they were my favourites. Maybe we need to learn to distinguish between what is the best skating and what is our favourite skating. Not the same things in the end.

Péchalat and Bourzat were not given enough credit for what they did. That petit prince FD was sublime, but some of the previous ones they did (eg: circus theme, Egyptian mummy) were often ridiculed, just because they dared to be different. But they always did it so well.

 

[heavy]

Pechalat / Bourzat were original. Sometimes the judges don't rewarded the originality.

 

[Ice Diva]

@viennaskater - yes, we're all so different in what moves us, which is a good thing! P/C and V/M to me are both quite sublime, while D/W I found boring, more like pairs skaters. I find Chan amazing - his body movements and beautiful ss tell the story, evoke the emotion, and Javi is just a wonderful performer - love the cheeky glint in his eye. Hanyu, on the other hand, leaves me cold, tho' I respect his abilities and jumps. To each her/his own. Yes! Pechalat and Bourzat were amazing but unfortunately often made errors under pressure.

 

[Meoima]

the only free dance that is interesting to me this season is Chock/Bate. The rest is...

 

[robredo40]

chock and bates are horrible freddy Mercury rolling in his grave at the butchering of under pressure.

 

[nevergonnadance]

They have the BEST twizzles in my opinion.

I kind of question as to why everyone is awarded level 4 + GOE and getting the same exact score as the Shibutani's when it's obvious theirs blows everyone else. If you put it side to side to the top three finishers here, they should get at least .01 or .02 or .03 or .04 or .05 higher than them.

Caveat: I love the Shibs wholeheartedly and their twizzles rock. Theirs are also more extended than everybody else's, are powerful, their body lines match, and the twizzles have huge impact. However, Virtue Moir twizzle closer together, rotate brilliantly fast, and their body lines matched so perfectly in this competition that Tessa virtually disappeared behind Scott. The Shibs don't twizzle far apart, but they do twizzle further apart from each other than do Virtue Moir. The Shibs have a gorgeously telegraphed entrance into their twizzles (turning into them out of a big curve), an entrance that is also effective in terms of suspense because the audience knows to anticipate the famous twizzles and waits with baited breath/excitement. The Shibs arm position also signals that they're about to do the twizzles - they set their arms before they begin. Virtue and Moir are inches apart and simply instantly transition into theirs with perfect unison, with no perceptible prep or set up at all. They aren't doing the arm position until they're actually twizzling.

Scott had his hand touching Tessa's upper back, with his elbow bent, the instant before they started twizzling, that's how close, and no gap between them opened up when they did the element with wonderful unison. They could've shared a menu doing those twizzles. With them, we know "here come the twizzles" because they're by the boards. Which also means if Tessa (who is usually on the inside) drifts even a little off the straight line, she'll hit the boards during the element.

I believe the Shibs twizzles are so effective not just because they're such a strong element for them, but also because they do four, and the twizzles are placed perfectly in the programs with the music to extend momentum.

There are skaters with a World Champion finish who are pressed to keep a three twizzle sequence stable with any kind of ice coverage or speed (either rotational or traveling), are hit and miss about maintaining a consistent distance between each other, and are challenged to keep their twizzles traveling on a straight line without drifting off course. These twizzles peter out more than they reach completion.

Don't know if this has any impact on difficulty or GOE, but the Shibs do theirs in the middle of the rink (which makes sense because they do more of them), while Virtue and Moir do theirs closer to one end of the rink, so they have to control the momentum generated by all that twizzle speed as soon as they're complete, or they'll they hit the boards. There's not a lot of room to sweep out of them on a huge curve, a la the Shibs. Whom I LOVE. Whose twizzles I love, and I love how they do them. My point is simply: last season, nobody could touch their twizzles. This season, I think there's an argument.

 

[Meoima]

chock and bates are horrible freddy Mercury rolling in his grave at the butchering of under pressure.

Still more entertaining than all the abstract and sleepy theme this season. Like everyone is skating to something very monotonous I can't tell which is more monotonous.

 

[nocturnalis]

this to the bolded above.

I was apprehensive towards their comeback despite being their long-time fan, I can't deny that, but it looks like they really took a correct and 'reasonable' approach for it. In my opinion they came at peace with all they succeeded/achieved until Sochi and want to build on that experience, instead of going into constant game of proving themselves/being first all the time. At the same time I see that poise, a strive to compete foremost, not only to win - looking at their skating now for me, they definitely look better than the quad leading to Sochi, there is more power there, looks like they really capitalized on that hiatus and benefitted from it. Also, performance-wise, I think their maturity and all experience are now paying off, because in my case, even if I'm not a fan of the program (FD), I totally can appreciate the level of performance they produce.

And I just want to stress how happy I am to see Tessa so much in 'her game' again - for me she is just a mesmerizing dancer and performer to watch, so very versatile that I can't recall the style/convention she has not succeed in. As for her skating - it really seems 'bigger' and stronger now despite this leg issues.

Another point with Tessa and Scott: they fit the twizzles to the music while the Shibutani's fit the music to the twizzles.

 

[heavy]

Well, I don't agree. They fit the music to the twizzles like the others couples but the twizzles are so good the are highlighted in the program.
V/M have good twizzles too, but sometimes they had problems in the execution, like many others couples, some more frequently than others. for them less frequently.
For instance, P/C FD, the twizzles are very well fit with the music too, but in NHK they had problems in the execution.
V/M are great but they aren't much better than the others. We have several couples with quality that can win the final.
They have ups and downs like everyone else. NHK was one up, great..I'm happy...but Skate Canada they loose FD.
These moments happens to all.

Another point with Tessa and Scott: they fit the twizzles to the music while the Shibutani's fit the music to the twizzles.

 

[Mango]

I don't find Gilles/Poirier's tango or Cappellini/Lanotte's charming Charlie Chaplin FDs to be monotonous, abstract, or sleep inducing. That's not to mention all the other tangos out there this season (we do have quite a few). But if you find tangos dull then next season is going to be rough as the required SD rhythm is rhumba.

Once again, I repeat my humble request to stop belittling Tessa and Scott because of the outcome of NHK2016. Please and thank you.

 

[heavy]

Please don't read my words like that.
All these couples are great. But sometimes have ups and downs. They are humans. We don't have here any Gods. Sometimes it seems that way. Some are God's we can touch and the others is ok to beat. I think no one deserved to be beaten in this forum. Neither Shibutani's or C/B or P/C or neither V/M. No one!.

I don't find Gilles/Poirier's tango or Cappellini/Lanotte's charming Charlie Chaplin FDs to be monotonous, abstract, or sleep inducing. That's not to mention all the other tangos out there this season (we do have quite a few). But if you find tangos dull then next season is going to be rough as the required SD rhythm is rhumba.

Once again, I repeat my humble request to stop belittling Tessa and Scott because of the outcome of NHK2016. Please and thank you.