2016 US Intl FS Classic Mens FP

[LRK]

I'm going to make a drinking game for the GP season out of these & YesWay's contribution!!

Are you sure your liver can take that?

 

[sarukou]

There's no way that Jason's 4T was fully rotated – the difference in points between him and Mura was on that call right there.

https://youtu.be/zD4xy9KN80c?t=56s

When slowed down, it becomes glaringly obvious it was 4T<

 

[HanDomi]

There's no way that Jason's 4T was fully rotated – the difference in points between him and Mura was on that call right there.

https://youtu.be/zD4xy9KN80c?t=56s

When slowed down, it becomes glaringly obvious it was 4T<

This one was clearly under rotated. I guess judges didn't called it 4T ? Or did they ? ...

 

[Jammers]

I have to admit i'm getting a bit tired of watching skaters trying quads simply to get the points since they have no hope of ever landing them. We can only hope the younger guys coming up who are already landing quads keep improving on everything else because they are the ones to get the US Men to be relevant again and contend.

 

[Mrs. P]

I have to admit i'm getting a bit tired of watching skaters trying quads simply to get the points since they have no hope of ever landing them. We can only hope the younger guys coming up who are already landing quads keep improving on everything else because they are the ones to get the US Men to be relevant again and contend.

Jammers, did you miss the live report that Jason's landed several quad toes, even in the warmup both nights?

 

[skylark]

I think Adam's music is wonderful. He's doing something uncommon and risky. Not only is his music a complete change from last year's, but Adam hasn't just laid his jumps in the same order. The choreography fits the music, and that includes the placement of the jumps. Plenty of mistakes, but at this point I think getting the choreo, the details and the emotion are more important. He will, I trust, improve the success of his jumps.

This early morning, I wasn't able to see the last 1/3 of the men's programs, so I read all y'all's comments first, especially re: the music. Boy, the relief when I finally watched Adam's skate! Maybe y'all were just feeling the effects of the late hour and worrying about Jason. Or, maybe you'll still hate Adam's music next time, who knows. To each his own.

Really enjoyed Jason's program after the quad fall (which can now with slo-mo be fairly clearly seen as UR even to my somewhat uncaring eye) and the popped axel. Jason is sublimely able to focus on the quality of his skating in the present moment and bring it.

I think Mura probably deserved and ought to have had the win, but on the basis of Jason's 4T. In my opinion, Mura's PCS were about right. I thought the quality of his performance was outstanding in the first minutes of the program, but in the last half it seemed he was tired and slowed down. Perfectly understandable because of the altitude.

I'll be interested to see whether, now that Adam's last two outings have produced a landed, underrotated 4Lz and a landed, underrotated 4Lutz with step-out, he might have earned the right not to be labeled with "planned downgraded falls." Just sayin'. I don't know, though, maybe around here it isn't enough. But I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

[mrrice]

Jammers, did you miss the live report that Jason's landed several quad toes, even in the warmup both nights?

I'm sure that's true. Do you remember Armin Mahbanoozadeh? I saw a video of him landing several quad toe's in practice. Then, I saw him land one during the warm up of Skate America in 2010. Unfortunately, I never saw him land one in competition that season. I think he may have landed one in 2012 but, he retired right after those nationals so, I never got to see it myself. Hopefully Jason will master his quad by Nationals and it won't take his long as it did for his Triple Axel. I saw Jason skate against Joshua several times and he never landed a triple axel. In fact, I don't think he even attempted a Triple Axel as Junior, did he?

 

[Mrs. P]

I think Mura probably deserved and ought to have had the win, but on the basis the of Jason's 4T. In my opinion, Mura's PCS were about right. I thought the quality of his performance was outstanding in the first minutes of the program, but in the last half it seemed he was tired and slowed down. Perfectly understandable because of the altitude.

This is where I also could arguably give Mura the win. One thing to keep in mind is not just whether it was underrotated (that's no question, it's why he couldn't complete the jump and fall), but whether it was underrotated more than 1/4 to prompt the <. Again the video quality is NOT ideal, so this is not a definitive view, just based on the limited resources available to me. But I think it's right at 1/4. Again, I think a Shin Amano or a more strict tech panel would have done it UR.

So yeah, if he had a 4T< I'd would have been okay with that.

The Technical Controller is Ms. Sally Rehorick, who was also the TC at 2014 Worlds.

 

[matscol]

I think for a veteran like Mura, it matters less how he places and scores here, than how he feels about his performance. Nobody will remember his placement here. If he can take confidence into his Grand Prixs, then mission accomplished, Home court advantage or not.

I know what I'll remember is he had the guts to do an off-the-cuff 3A after the early pop. Those spins, tho...

 

[el henry]

I think Adam's music is wonderful. He's doing something uncommon and risky. Not only is his music a complete change from last year's, but Adam hasn't just laid his jumps in the same order. The choreography fits the music, and that includes the placement of the jumps. Plenty of mistakes, but at this point I think getting the choreo, the details and the emotion are more important. He will, I trust, improve the success of his jumps.

This early morning, I wasn't able to see the last 1/3 of the men's programs, so I read all y'all's comments first, especially re: the music. Boy, the relief when I finally watched Adam's skate! Maybe y'all were just feeling the effects of the late hour and worrying about Jason. Or, maybe you'll still hate Adam's music next time, who knows. To each his own.

Really enjoyed Jason's program after the quad fall (which can now with slo-mo be fairly clearly seen as UR even to my somewhat uncaring eye) and the popped axel. Jason is sublimely able to focus on the quality of his skating in the present moment and bring it.

I think Mura probably deserved and ought to have had the win, but on the basis of Jason's 4T. In my opinion, Mura's PCS were about right. I thought the quality of his performance was outstanding in the first minutes of the program, but in the last half it seemed he was tired and slowed down. Perfectly understandable because of the altitude.

I'll be interested to see whether, now that Adam's last two outings have produced a landed, underrotated 4Lz and a landed, underrotated 4Lutz with step-out, he might have earned the right not to be labeled with "planned downgraded falls." Just sayin'. I don't know, though, maybe around here it isn't enough. But I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

I love uncommon and risky. I just dislike that song. The chords are the same as the Piano, and the singer on Adam's LP *can't* *sing*. Please, this is an almost serious question, tell me what notes that singer thinks he is hitting. He makes Bob Dylan sound like a trained operatic tenor. Oh well, de gustibus and all that. I love Adam's SP, the LP has me lost. IMHO, Adam would be better off just using Jason's music.

I think I dislike the Quad Lutz because of the reason that Adam is using it. He has said in interviews he thinks a quad lutz will make people "take notice". I haven't been following Adam long enough, but can he actually land and rotate other quads? That is my issue, the obsession with the Lutz.

On a completely different note, I watched the medal ceremony online, and Takahito and Jason were enjoying quite a laugh, I believe from the hand gestures about their all black costumes. Who would have believed that Takahito and Jason would be wearing similar, *bling-less*, costumes?

 

[skylark]

This is where I also could arguably give Mura the win. One thing to keep in mind is not just whether it was underrotated (that's no question, it's why he couldn't complete the jump and fall), but whether it was underrotated more than 1/4 to prompt the <. Again the video quality is NOT ideal, so this is not a definitive view, just based on the limited resources available to me. But I think it's right at 1/4. Again, I think a Shin Amano or a more strict tech panel would have done it UR.

So yeah, if he had a 4T< I'd would have been okay with that.

The Technical Controller is Ms. Sally Rehorick, who was also the TC at 2014 Worlds.

Mrs. P, I'm definitely willing to go with your analysis on the jumps.

 

[TMC]

I'm sure that's true. Do you remember Armin Mahbanoozadeh? I saw a video of him landing several quad toe's in practice. Then, I saw him land one during the warm up of Skate America in 2010. Unfortunately, I never saw him land one that season. I think he may have landed one in 2012 but, he retired right after those nationals so, I never got to see it myself. Hopefully Jason will master his quad by Nationals and it won't take his long as it did for his Triple Axel. I saw Jason skate against Joshua several times and he never landed a triple axel. In fact, I don't think he even attempted a Triple Axel as Junior, did he?

He did. For example, he did two positive goe 3Axels in his Jr Worlds FS in 2013, and he won the FS & got the Jr FS world record score for that programme. That score lasted until Shoma Uno broke it 2 seasons later.

 

[mrrice]

He did. For example, he did two positive goe 3Axels in his Jr Worlds FS in 2013, and he won the FS & got the Jr FS world record score for that programme. That score lasted until Shoma Uno broke it 2 seasons later.

I thought 2013 was the year that Joshua, Jason and Shotaro swept the podium. I thought it was Joshua won the free at that event.

 

[skylark]

I love uncommon and risky. I just dislike that song. The chords are the same as the Piano, and the singer on Adam's LP *can't* *sing*. Please, this is an almost serious question, tell me what notes that singer thinks he is hitting. He makes Bob Dylan sound like a trained operatic tenor. Oh well, de gustibus and all that. I love Adam's SP, the LP has me lost. IMHO, Adam would be better off just using Jason's music.

I think I dislike the Quad Lutz because of the reason that Adam is using it. He has said in interviews he thinks a quad lutz will make people "take notice". I haven't been following Adam long enough, but can he actually land and rotate other quads? That is my issue, the obsession with the Lutz.

On a completely different note, I watched the medal ceremony online, and Takahito and Jason were enjoying quite a laugh, I believe from the hand gestures about their all black costumes. Who would have believed that Takahito and Jason would be wearing similar, *bling-less*, costumes?

Yes on the blingless! Imagine fist pump here.

At NHK 2013, Adam is credited with two quad toes, one in SP and one in LP. Neither is marked UR, both have negative GoE but no deductions for falls. He said in a short TSL 'view last spring I think, that he intends to work to get the quad toe back this year. I agree with you about his seeming obsession with the 4Lz. In an older interview, I think he also said he likes the lutz and it "fits his body" or something, and that entered into it. But last year's success in general convinced him to try to recover the 4T.

Honestly, I was hoping to see him substitute the 4T for the 4Lz right now ... but I suppose I have to be patient. It ain't ready yet.

 

[sneakers]

I think the Japanese and other foreign skaters of e.g. Mura´s caliber should avoid B-events in USA, because the judging is way too pro-American... They should rather participate in European events like Nebelhorn Trophy or Finlandia Trophy. At least these countries don´t have notable men skaters of their own, so the judging can be more trustworthy.

strange how Japan keeps competing here where they get lowballed all the time...
This is the same as those gymnastics event the US hosts with blatant overscoring...

 

[TMC]

I thought 2013 was the year that Joshua, Jason and Shotaro swept the podium. I thought it was Joshua won the free at that event.

It was. Jason won the free, though.

 

[Mrs. P]

Mrs. P, I'm definitely willing to go with your analysis on the jumps.

If you would like. But I am not a trained expert and the video is just such poor quality, it's mostly a limited educated guess based on the resources available.

 

[Tavi...]

Yes on the blingless! Imagine fist pump here.

At NHK 2013, Adam is credited with two quad toes, one in SP and one in LP. Neither is marked UR, both have negative GoE but no deductions for falls. He said in a short TSL 'view last spring I think, that he intends to work to get the quad toe back this year. I agree with you about his seeming obsession with the 4Lz. In an older interview, I think he also said he likes the lutz and it "fits his body" or something, and that entered into it. But last year's success in general convinced him to try to recover the 4T.

Honestly, I was hoping to see him substitute the 4T for the 4Lz right now ... but I suppose I have to be patient. It ain't ready yet.

I believe he said (Ice Network interview?) he wants to put the 4T in at the Japan Open. But I don't think he said whether it would replace the 4Z or not.

 

[Tavi...]

I have to admit i'm getting a bit tired of watching skaters trying quads simply to get the points since they have no hope of ever landing them. We can only hope the younger guys coming up who are already landing quads keep improving on everything else because they are the ones to get the US Men to be relevant again and contend.

This is Jason's short program run through on Thursday, before the comp:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php&_rdr

 

[skylark]

I believe he said (Ice Network interview?) he wants to put the 4T in at the Japan Open. But I don't think he said whether it would replace the 4Z or not.

That sounds familiar, I think you're right. It will be interesting to see what he does at Japan Open.