2016 World Championships Ladies SP

[ioanna]

I like Japanese, all three of them, but panel was lenient on Satoko all season. Someone had to call that UR at one point, her jumps are not great, and she won't fix them thinking everything is ok. I love everything else from her performance though and I wouldn't mind if her PCS were slightly higher

I wish people would get informed before saying things like this. I guess you (and a lot of other people) haven't read the Skate America, NHK Trophy and Grand Prix Final protocols where she did get underrotation calls, edge calls and whatnot. The thing is that her main competitors failed to deliver and she capitalized on her chance by focusing and skating clean. I wish people would appreciate this about her but it's too much to ask I guess.

And by the way she doesn't think her jumps are ok, she is working to improve them every day because she herself is frustrated with the lack of power in her legs and small jumps. She hasn't let scores or placings influence her target - which is to improve her jumps as much as she can.

On a different note, I'm pretty disappointed with some people here literally celebrating her score/placing like she's some kind of villain who has been bribing the judges all this time. Sad.

 

[Mathman]

Gold medalist at GPF, Russian Nationals and Europeans (two months ago), she won everything this season.

That's what I am saying. In all previous competitions this season she was great. But last night she didn't distinguish herself as much as she did at GPF, Russian Nationals, Europeans, etc. I hope she crushes it tomorrow night.

 

[Plisskin]

I think I'll believe people who were actually there than fellow posters watching from busted web streams like myself, lol. The crowd seemed polite to me even on CBC stream. Not Japan level but figure skating hasn't been Japan level in the States for years. And with the event being in Boston, culturally they might not even be like that to begin with. I didn't think anything was wrong with the crowd, and was overall fine with them until I came here and was surprised by the complaints. I kind of figured the American audience would get unnecessary flack for obvious reasons so I'm not surprised.

Anyway, this was the best SP competition we've seen in years. Looking forward to the SP because the winner could be any of the Top 5. :thumbsup:

 

[karlowens2]

Really not understanding all the hoopla around the crowd's reaction, bringing Sochi into this etc. Several posters who were there including myself pointed out that the crowded reacted warmly to everyone. Had Anna not skated last she would've gotten a full standing O instead of partial. No one chanted "U.S.A," no booing, hollering or any sort of adverse reaction to a skater. Did we stand up for everyone that seemed visibly clean? Nope. Can't speak for others but I just didn't find Evgenia or Elena engaging. Maybe their star quality came across better on tv. Also, not everyone in the arena is a hard core skating fan. There are many casual fans and locals who may feel more inclined to support American skaters. That's natural. I was sitting next to a little girl who was waiting for hours to toss a flower to gracie. Who would've thought?! The american girls may not have done much on the international stage lately but they probably mean something to young skaters here.

The audience here is not Japan level but we have been polite to pretty much everyone (minus the exodus post kovtun's SP. That was just rude and embarassing to see). Won't compare the audience reaction here to Spain cuz GPFs are much shorter events and longer FS can get pretty tiring to watch.

The audience was fine. The USA, USA business left in the 90's. They applauded for everyone - even cheered for many non-Americans. I do bring Sochi into this. I remember Kostner coming out to NO applause; One of the best skaters of a generation. Worse was the audience screaming Adelina, Adelina... while Kim waited for her scores.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Quite, Ioanna. Mean spirited if you ask me. I gave her a SO and thought she was low balled in PCS and so did at least 6 people I spoke to. She was great!

 

[cathlen]

I wish people would get informed before saying things like this. I guess you (and a lot of other people) haven't read the Skate America, NHK Trophy and Grand Prix Final protocols where she did get underrotation calls, edge calls and whatnot. The thing is that her main competitors failed to deliver and she capitalized on her chance by focusing and skating clean. I wish people would appreciate this about her but it's too much to ask I guess.

And by the way she doesn't think her jumps are ok, she is working to improve them every day because she herself is frustrated with the lack of power in her legs and small jumps. She hasn't let scores or placings influence her target - which is to improve her jumps as much as she can.

On a different note, I'm pretty disappointed with some people here literally celebrating her score/placing like she's some kind of villain who has been bribing the judges all this time. Sad.

Did you read my comment to the end? I did say I liked her performance. And I would give her higher PCS slightly. I know she did get the calls sometimes. Maybe my choice of words weren't very fortunate, but the truth is that she isn't called on some of her jumps. Not that I think that all of them are UR, but don't make it like I don't like her. And I don't think it was unfair she was winnig, when other girls didn't deliver. I think she's great that she seizes every chance she has. I really wish some other skaters had that ability.

PS I checked all protocols you mentioned. No UR in GPF at all. Neither SP nor FP. She got one UR in each FP at NHK and SA. That's all. I wasn't talking about edge calls at all, but I only saw one "e" in these protocols.

 

[[email protected]]

I didn't even watch the ladies, but I am finding the "oh, those Americans just don't understand they didn't even cheer, they are so anti-Russian" a tad tiresome.

For whatever reason, in every sporting event in the US of A, the crowd leaves with ten minutes to go. In Boston. In Philadelphia. In Los Angeles. Whether we're playing the team across town, the Russians, or the team from Mars.

Rude, probably. But boo hoo hoo anti-Russian? Puh-leeeze. Sorry, guys, Jackson B. Squat to do with Russia; you'll need to find something else to feed the "horrible Americans dis the Russians" story. I'm sure you will.

Will they do the same during the FP with the Americans skating last?

 

[solani]

I wish people would get informed before saying things like this. I guess you (and a lot of other people) haven't read the Skate America, NHK Trophy and Grand Prix Final protocols where she did get underrotation calls, edge calls and whatnot. The thing is that her main competitors failed to deliver and she capitalized on her chance by focusing and skating clean. I wish people would appreciate this about her but it's too much to ask I guess.

And by the way she doesn't think her jumps are ok, she is working to improve them every day because she herself is frustrated with the lack of power in her legs and small jumps. She hasn't let scores or placings influence her target - which is to improve her jumps as much as she can.

On a different note, I'm pretty disappointed with some people here literally celebrating her score/placing like she's some kind of villain who has been bribing the judges all this time. Sad.

I agree. Athough I must confess that I was rather glad that the flip got that carrot. I just would have been unfair if it didn't. As you say, she's working on her technique and she needs the other skaters to make errors to be able to medal. There's no shame in that. She's a delightful skater, but I'm sure she's very unhappy with the result after the SP. But it will make her work harder, I've do doubt about that.
I think she did particularly well expression wise in the SP. And her edges will get better as she grows stronger, that should boost her PCS in the years to come.

 

[tulosai]

Look about the audience, I feel like people need a SERIOUS reality check about audiences in general.

1. As a preliminary point OF COURSE it would be ideal if audiences were all 'true fans' of the sport itself, coming in with no biases and doling out applause and standing ovations generously to everyone who deserves them, in the exact measure that they deserve them. It would also be nice if audiences observed 'traditional etiquette' and both came at the beginning and stayed to the end.

2. Unfortunately, a few things are going on here that prevent this ideal world from taking shape. First of all audiences are real people, who have favorites and conscious or unconscious biases. Furthermore, some percentage of the audience are plain and simple Boston residents who are at best VERY casual (almost to the point of being non) fans, who just thought this sounds cool why not. It's natural and has to be expected that people will cheer loudest for their favorites and for those who share things with them, and one obvious thing to be shared is nationality. This happens in ALL countries, even countries most people on the board would generally agree are 'good' to all skaters. In Canada for example I'd argue they are generally good to all skaters, at least relative to some other countries, but they cheer twice as loud for the Canadians anyway. Additionally, small countries in Europe that people think are 'fair' to everyone often only have one mediocre skater early in the event. Of course they will cheer more equally for the top skaters having no skin in the game. I am not arguing any of this is right or just, but it's natural and happens at all competitions. Anyone who argues otherwise is frankly deluding themselves to some degree, sorry.

3. While I do wish people would watch the whole event, the fact is that people are not performing some philanthropic service or being paid to sit in the seats. They pay, sometimes quite handsomely, for the tickets. It's their right to do what they want about those seats, and to come and go when they want. It being their right doesn't necessarily make it right, but it isn't like they are trying to personally insult the skaters. They are considering what is best for them and for their schedule, and that, again, is their right. If someone has no real interest in Anna's score, I don't see what people hope to accomplish by forcing them to sit in their seat until that score is posted. And if someone has no interest in Anna at all, they should be able to just leave without watching her, sorry. No it's not the most polite thing to do, but again, people pay to go to this as a form of entertainment. They can leave if they want.

I realize my opinion's not going to be popular, but in my mind this is pretty much the objective truth. People can keep complaining but it's not going to change it.

 

[Elaine]

For top 6 (Gracie, Anna, Evgenia, Ashley, Elena, Satoko)

[Base Value]
1. Evgneia - 33.10 (3F(x), 2A(x), 3Lo+3T(x) / Spins lv 4-4-4 / Step lv 4)
2. Elena - 33.06 (3Lz+3T, 3F(x), 2A(x) / Spins lv 4-4-4 / Step lv 4)
3. Gracie - 32.76 (3Lz+3T, 3F(!)(x), 2A(x) / Spins lv 3-4-4 / Step lv 4)
4. Anna - 32.00 (3Lz+3T, 3Lo, 2A / Spins lv 4-4-4 / Step lv 4)
5. Ashley - 31.34 (3F+3T, 2A(x), 3Lo(x) / Spins lv 4-4-4 / Step lv 3)
6. Satoko - 31.30 (3Lz+3T, 3F<(!)(x), 2A(x) / Spins lv 4-4-4 / Step lv 4)

[Total GOE]
1. Anna - 7.77 :agree:
2. Gracie - 7.75
3. Ashley - 7.09
4. Evgenia - 6.83
5. Satoko - 5.91
6. Elena - 5.23

[Jumps] : Total score (BV + GOE)
1. Ashley - 22.07 (18.84 + 3.23) :shocked: :luv17:
2. Graice - 21.93 (19.76 + 2.17)
3. Evgenia - 21.80 (19.80 + 2.00)
4. Anna - 21.63 (18.60 + 3.03)
5. Elena - 20.39 (19.76 + 0.63)
6. Satoko - 18.67 (18.00 + 0.67)

[Non-jump elements] : Total score (BV + GOE)
1. Gracie - 18.58 (13.00 + 5.58)
2. Satoko - 18.54 (13.30 + 5.24)
3. Anna - 18.14 (13.30 + 4.84)
4. Evgenia - 18.13 (13.30 + 4.83)
5. Elena - 17.90 (13.30 + 4.60)
6. Ashley - 16.36 (12.50 + 3.86)


Ashley's problem (compared to other skaters) mostly comes from her non-jump elements, especially the step sequence. She is the only one among top 6 who didn't get level 4 on step sq. Had she got level 4 on her step sq, her score would have been 74+. She really needs to improve her step sequence! Her step sequence may be sassy and fun to watch but obviously lacks the edge quality and (especially) speed.... I'm saying this as a big, big fan of her because at first I thought she deserved to be in 3rd or even 2nd place but then after I checked the protocol, I kind of agreed with the overall results (except Graice's PCS ).

 

[Poodlepal]

I just looked at both performances again (Gracie and Anna) and Anna's was smoother and more sophisticated. Gracie still looks a little bit like a kid playing dress up, like she's not being herself.

However--I read the scores. Gracie did a flip after the halfway point. Anna did a loop before the halfway point. Had she done the harder jump later, she'd likely be in first place. Gracie also seemed faster, at least on video. I wasn't there in person, so I can't comment on how it looked really on the ice.

If we are wanting the most entertaining to be in first (as opposed to following "nitpicky" things like who did what jump when and did they use the right edge, etc.), Ashley should be in first. Her program's music and theme was unique, where as Anna's and Gracie's were more standard. Their music sounded similar to my untrained ears.

As for the fans: people do leave early to avoid crowds. Go to a baseball game and see how many people are left in the 8th or 9th inning. Also, Anna was probably not considered to be a factor, since she was in 17th place last year. I graded papers while she skated, after hearing Ryan and Tracy talk about what a choker she was. I just rewatched her performance now in Russian on YouTube. Evgenia was the Russian girl everyone was talking about, and probably there would have been more people staying for her. It is rude, though.

 

[Sackie]

Well after years of reading posts where posters have stated 'let's forgo the free skate and just hand the gold medal to Chan' - I think it is fair to say now 'Let's just hand the Gold to Gold!' With this lead and her overscored PCS she can make a couple errors in the free and still come out on top.
My worse fear is that now that she is world champ - no one will have a shot. She will be there winning everything until the next Olympics. The US has been pushing for a USA lady to win back Olympic Gold for a long time now and I think this is the start of the run for it.

 

[MaiKatze]

The top seven are very close together. (Poor Rika for just missing the last group, her LP is so energetic) I doubt we will see a repeat of perfect performances in the LP. The LP is different and now we have added pressure for some skaters, while others have lost some of the pressure. I expect positions to be shuffled around quite a lot in the LP. Let's see.

 

[Alex D]

I apologize for the reply in advance

Good grief. The condemnation of the crowd most of which is from people not even here is ridiculous. ?

I didn´t want to comment in this thread again, but I dislike your statement there. Do you remember Sochi, do you remember petitions, YT hate videos, blogs full of anti Sotnikova and Anti Russia, threats to federation and skaters? All coming from people not being at the event?
It is common that people commentate about events, even if they were not there in person and before it was ok, now it´s wrong? You criticize a simple observation, that is not rude, mean or of any caliber of what people did after Sochi, which is your right and I agree to some extend with you, as video feeds are different, but I feel it´s wrong to silence people just because they were not there, especially if nobody was as rude or disrespectful as the Sochi haters back then and still are.

It seems hard to understand, but what people pointed out is just a minor critique about what the crowd did, this is not a nuclear attack and nobody has stolen the Statue of Liberty either. I wish American fans (your from the UK I know) would support Gracie more and not bring up their "revenge for Sochi" now with all this trash talk, or act so offended, just because of opinions about crowd behavior. Many people who were at the event clearly mentioned that they were disappointed by the crowd, other felt the crowd was fair and supportive.

We do have two different views and the opinions from those watching the video feed and maybe I jumped the gun too early, with what I noticed on the ISU stream, I am not free of mistakes either, but then how do you explain the comments of those who were there, noting similar things? Why can we not just accept this differential reception and move on? This great competition deserves better, do not let us fight because of different tastes and expectations. I was disappointed, you were not, other were, others were not... I believe the live feedback from people like Karne (sorry buddy for mentioning you again), shows that the same event can be witnessed differently and that´s just how it is.

In the end, to me it seems that this whole "East vs. West" is still in peoples head and that it comes out now again. It´s not even about the skating anymore, it´s pure fighting about a simple and at no times meant to be rude, critique, a critique that comes up a lot in sports and honestly people in Germany or France have some really bad manners at times, something I say as a German who is a lot in Paris. People are not mean, they are just what they are and I am sure that Russians might also have these stories to tell. Nobody of those commenting, said anything rude or horribly bad about Americans or the people at Boston, how some of you can get worked up so much about this is not understandable to me and sad, as all that energy that you guys leave here, should go into the fan threads of Gracie, Mirai and Ashley, something that I will focus on now as well.

Humans are different in what they do, those at Boston paid a lot of money for the tickets and no matter what some of us might call the "etiquette" of a fan, they will do what they want and that we now fight because of their behavior is silly. I also want to tell a story about Worlds in Canada last year (soccer). We had a very tight access to some of the stadiums and while we officials were there much earlier, the fans at times came 20 or 30 minutes late to the matches. Reasons might be different than we think they are, we should all take a chill pill if you ask me and talk again about the skating.

In my opinion and maybe it´s an unpopular request, I would delete all the posts, including my other two from this thread where I replied to people and only keep the actual skating reports in here. In the past 10 or 15 pages, we did not discuss the sport, but human behavior it´s crazy.

I apologize for sounding a bit "angry", I hope you don´t see this as a personal attack. As said, I didn´t want to write here again, as I felt misunderstood and in the middle of a war, so see this reply as my final statement in that matter and for future analysis, I welcome everyone at the fan threads, where I will post my thoughts with Gracie and Anna already published. I wish you a wonderful day at Boston and great fun with the future competitions and I am sorry if anyone felt offended

 

[Poodlepal]

Well after years of reading posts where posters have stated 'let's forgo the free skate and just hand the gold medal to Chan' - I think it is fair to say now 'Let's just hand the Gold to Gold!' With this lead and her overscored PCS she can make a couple errors in the free and still come out on top.
My worse fear is that now that she is world champ - no one will have a shot. She will be there winning everything until the next Olympics. The US has been pushing for a USA lady to win back Olympic Gold for a long time now and I think this is the start of the run for it.

1. Gracie's "overscoring" is not in the same league as Patrick's. He used to fall and make several mistakes, which were seemingly forgiven. Gracie skated clean. Her technical score was higher than Anna's, probably for the reason I stated in my previous post.

2. All countries want their own people to win. As far as I know, there has never been anything dishonest done to promote an American. American judges were never involved in a major scandal, nor did they try to take or duplicate another team's gold medal.

2a. For the last 10 years, an American lady has been in 4th or 5th for most of them. If there was some conspiracy, they would have found a bronze for Alissa, Rachel, Mirai, Ashley, Kimmie or Gracie--did I forget anyone?

3. Good. If not Gracie, than someone else. I hope there is one single person who is dominating. Having a new Russian 15 year old every year is not healthy for the sport or for them. Where are Julia, Adelina and Elizabeta now? It can't be good for their bodies or psyches to be flavor of the month.

4. Gracie has not won anything as of this writing. She is a headcase, sadly, and will probably not win. I'm hoping she'll hold on for bronze, but more likely, she'll be in 7th, like when Mirai won the short program.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

I am not offended. I agree pages on this is silly which is why I said 'good grief'. I am not trying to silence people. Sorry if it seemed I was. I'd have been fine with a few simple observations that the crowd was a bit quiet for some. People all have different opinions. However, pages and pages on this with some getting the pitchforks out felt a bit much. Anyway have a great day watching the skating. I surely will!

P.S. I wasn't around GS for Sochi. Thank god from some threads I've read since! Lol

 

[LeReveur]

Well after years of reading posts where posters have stated 'let's forgo the free skate and just hand the gold medal to Chan' - I think it is fair to say now 'Let's just hand the Gold to Gold!' With this lead and her overscored PCS she can make a couple errors in the free and still come out on top.
My worse fear is that now that she is world champ - no one will have a shot. She will be there winning everything until the next Olympics. The US has been pushing for a USA lady to win back Olympic Gold for a long time now and I think this is the start of the run for it.

I don't think you're the only one with that fear or a similar fear. As someone born and raised in the U.S., I have no internal bias for or against the American skaters. I loved Sasha, didn't warm to Michelle; I'm pro-Tonya, I like Kristi, but I don't really appreciate Nancy's non-jump elements. As for Gracie: I used to love watching her big, high jumps, but I have found almost all (or all?) of her competitive programs under Frank to be mediocre or worse. Some of her scoring has seemed to indicate that she's a judges' pet, especially when it comes to choreography and interpretation. I used to want her to do well with that but found myself not buying most of what she presented. Now, with worlds in her home country, those PCS scores- especially in relation to her competitors- seem embarrassingly good, and I am with you in almost likening her to having Chan's prior ability to blow multiple elements and still be way up there, if not at the top. It's a shame because for me, it is as if her coach/hair/dresses/other such factors are pumping up her PCS. Rarely do I read that anyone actually thinks she connects with her SP or LP musical choices. Compliments in that regard are more along the lines of "Well, I like Gracie so much and I'm so happy for her."

Anyway, moving back to the SP, it was definitely heartening to see so many "good or more than good" performances. My biggest surprise was seeing Rika Hong POWER through her program and her jumps. I didn't know she could be so commanding. Also: how many would have had Anna as the Russian on top after one program? I've come to really like her skating, and I credit her (and the judges) for a great score. Finally, has Mirai ever stated why her jump layout is at is in the short? I haven't looked at the base value, but it would seem that she gave away points all season long by attempting the loop as her solo triple instead of the lutz. Maybe she thought she would get a better GOE on it. I don't know.

 

[Icey]

Hey Karne. I think, in general, American audiences tend to like more mature performances. I don't think we've ever warmed up to the little girls who skim across the ice.

For example, I was not surprised that the audience reaction to Pogo was much more warm than the one for the other Russians. I think the idea of the gangly Russian and Japanese adolescents racking up huge scores leaves American's scratching their heads. Well, it does me at any rate.

Pogo's more mature style and power suit the American eye much more.

Also, American audiences are pretty savvy about a lot of things, backstory stuff, so the applause for someone like Mirai had much to do with things other than the actual performance she had just delivered. Although it was quite nice.

I was disappointed that your girl didn't make the final. I'm sorry, I was hoping for it.

Rad and Pogo are both 17 (Pogo turns 18 April 10) and Med is 16. Don't understand your argument.

 

[Mrs. P]

There were plenty of people in the arena for Anna's score. I know because it took me 30 minutes to get on the subway train and I DID stay for her scores.

Speaking for myself, Anna's P performance was my favorite. I am obviously American. I am part of the audience.

 

[MaiKatze]

Rad and Pogo are both 17 (Pogo turns 18 April 10) and Med is 16. Don't understand your argument.

I think that it's easy to forget that Anna is only 17. She's been in 2 World Championships before this. She almost won a medal in 2014. The difference is that she looked like a woman in 2014 already. She didn't have that obvious puberty change we see now in Elena and which is probably still to come for Evgenia. And I guess, that's another reason why she kind of flew under the radar (besides her splats). She just seems older, powerful. That's why she falls so horribly, she just doesn't hesitate. Her jumps are all or nothing and she should be rewarded. Russia was correct in sending her. I hope her lobby gets bigger now.