2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

[puremagic]

But better to not overhype those super talented ladies, though... I just remembered these posts of tars and [email protected] in Nastya Gubanova's thread:

She's amazing talent and has some special star quality in her skating that is magnetic for viewers. Fantastic jumps and flow, speed and super elegant arms movement. I'm looking forward to her duels with Liza Nugumanova for Russian skating crown past 2018.

Her short program last season was just gorgeous. She and Liza Nugumanova are the future of Russian ladies' FS. God keep them free from injuries.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oIfENL8Ins

Who was this girl inspired by?

Alinaaaaa Zagitovaaaaaaa

 

[skatenewbie]

But better to not overhype those super talented ladies, though... I just remembered these posts of tars and [email protected] in Nastya Gubanova's thread:

Gubanova is still good though? But Liza on the other hand...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Gubanova is still good though? But Liza on the other hand...

Great in fact!! 6th place at Senior Russian Nationals is no easy feat these days

Special shout out to Serafima for cracking the top 10 and Tuk for breaking 200 there also. It’s been a great year!

I usually steer clear of doing it but I made this tiny prediction in October...one of the few predictions I made although technically it’s more of an inclination

I might end up with a broken heart but I'm starting to get my hopes up for Sima. Please save your energy and refrain from telling me it won't happen. It feels good to have a little hope in her and I'm just going to go with it

 

[Resa]

So you basically have to be 16 now to compete at 2018/19 circuit? Since when did that started? I remember Tuktamysheva having her debut at 14!

 

[Shayuki]

So you basically have to be 16 now to compete at 2018/19 circuit? Since when did that started? I remember Tuktamysheva having her debut at 14!

You have to be 15.

The cutoff used to be 14. I believe Elena Radionova is the last skater to take advantage of that - The cut off became 15 for the GP series for the 2014-2015 season.

 

[tjb]

i'm not excited about samodelkina at all. there is no hope for me unless she leaves davydov for a better coach

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Samodelkina + Berestovskaya --> Eteri
please please please

 

[Shayuki]

i'm not excited about samodelkina at all. there is no hope for me unless she leaves davydov for a better coach

Well, the thing is... it's ЦСКА. It's a big school, it has many coaches. Most importantly, it has a lot of pull. Also... I think that's a weak reason to not be excited about a skater, assuming you actually like the way she skates otherwise. For example, maybe she gets picked by Eteri in the future or whatever. After all, she's the only large talent in a 2 season span and should be just about the only big talent during her JGP debut season - She should get very preferential treatment and ЦСКА is pretty good at that sort of a thing.

Samodelkina is right now quite a bit better than any of the big 2004 names(Trusova, Tarakanova, Shcherbakova) were in 2015 at the same time, both when it comes to jumps and even moreso when it comes to the PCS categories, as a whole. I think "not being excited at all" is pretty harsh.


Even if Eteri doesn't pick her up, natural progression would land her under Buyanova.

 

[Grin]

Please tell me you are joking

Not at all, she has grown alot recently
https://youtu.be/GBsjvAvf9W0

 

[tjb]

Well, the thing is... it's ЦСКА. It's a big school, it has many coaches. Most importantly, it has a lot of pull. Also... I think that's a weak reason to not be excited about a skater, assuming you actually like the way she skates otherwise. For example, maybe she gets picked by Eteri in the future or whatever. After all, she's the only large talent in a 2 season span and should be just about the only big talent during her JGP debut season - She should get very preferential treatment and ЦСКА is pretty good at that sort of a thing.

Samodelkina is right now quite a bit better than any of the big 2004 names(Trusova, Tarakanova, Shcherbakova) were in 2015 at the same time, both when it comes to jumps and even moreso when it comes to the PCS categories, as a whole. I think "not being excited at all" is pretty harsh.

you can't really tell who's gonna be "the only big talent' in 3 years from now.
take zagitova as an example. all she had at the age of 12 is 2 triples, and look at her now. eteri made her a skater in a year. a good coach means much more than a skater's talent, especially at this age.
i've seen how cska ruins young skaters for years, only goncharenko did a decent job there, but now she's gone.
so no, i'm not excited, unless she switches to panova or something

 

[dante]

Yay, the documentary will be translated by real translators!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4YEmKH3poE

Upd: you can instantly see they are real translators who are not afraid to change the word "flame" in the Russian title to "fame" in English.

 

[Shayuki]

you can't really tell who's gonna be "the only big talent' in 3 years from now.

The reality also is that she's already better than anyone has ever been at her age - Including every top talent you can include. Obviously you can't predict these things perfectly 3 years in advance, but the reality is that she's the best skater out of the ones born after 2004 already, despite being a 2007.

And when considering skaters like Gubanova who you can consider as one who didn't live up to hype, she had obvious tech flaws that Samodelkina doesn't have. Samodelkina actually has qualities like very good jump height for her age, rotation speed on the +3Lo about the same as Alexandra Trusova 4S rotation speed and the absolutely lovely artistry to the extent you just can't teach.

You realize, Shcherbakova, Trusova, Tarakanova were big talents for the 2004 age group. You know they weren't all under Eteri at that time, right? But that doesn't mean you couldn't see what Tarakanova was good at at the time. She still is good at those things under Eteri.

Obviously there are examples like Zagitova you hop on, but you simultaneously ignore the dozen+ examples of unimpressive skaters who under Eteri still were unimpressive. But I don't get why you actually ignore the currently impressive skaters who ALSO were impressive when they were Samodelkina's age.



I just don't subscribe to the school of thought that you can't be excited for a skater before they are senior eligible at all. And you use Zagitova as an example, but she's the same age Lipnitskaya was. Her career ended up becoming ruined anyway - It even is too early to consider Zagitova an opposite example until she actually does get through puberty successfully.

 

[hanca]

people are wishing so hard for zheyna and alina to disappear
but no. they won't. zhenya said a couple of times already that she wants to compete as long as her health will allow her. and of course they will be in shape at worlds, skaters in eteri group are in shape all year long, no one skips trainings when healthy

some of them. On one side you have the success stories, but you also have Skirda who had a bad season, and in the past Voronov , Pitkeev and Lipnitskaya who have had their ups and downs, so saying that Tutberidze’s skaters are prepared all the time is a little bit silly. I am also a fan, but the level of drooling over Tutberidze’s skater on this thread is becoming slightly sickening. Ine can be a fan and still remain at least a little bit objective. They are not all perfect all the time. Tarakanova’s second JGP event was a bit of a mess, and Panenkova also didn’t have a good skate at one of her events. They are humans, please don’t try to make robots from them.

 

[hanca]

The reality also is that she's already better than anyone has ever been at her age - Including every top talent you can include. Obviously you can't predict these things perfectly 3 years in advance, but the reality is that she's the best skater out of the ones born after 2004 already, despite being a 2007.

It doesn’t matter how good she is now. What matter is how good she will be when she becomes junior eligible. Gubanova was something like three years ahead of competitors of the same year group. And yet by the time she became junior eligible, many of them caught up and now before she is senior eligible, some even got ahead. You may think it was the hype, but she really was that good. There will be talents that will appear closer to their junior eligibility. Zagitova also appeared last minute and so did Pogorilaya.

 

[tjb]

The reality also is that she's already better than anyone has ever been at her age - Including every top talent you can include. Obviously you can't predict these things perfectly 3 years in advance, but the reality is that she's the best skater out of the ones born after 2004 already, despite being a 2007.
.

i'll say that kanysheva (2005) is a better skater at the moment.
and the best skater in a certain age group and the most promising skater are also two different things. this girl just looks like someone who grew up early, she's a well rounded skater but there is nothing really "wow" about her. while sasha trusova at 10 wasn't really great overall but she had this gigantic jumps, that looking at her you can immediately tell this girl will grow into a jumping machine.
and i have the same feeling about akatieva. she looks more promising to me than samodelkina, and not just because of her coach

 

[puremagic]

It doesn’t matter how good she is now. What matter is how good she will be when she becomes junior eligible. Gubanova was something like three years ahead of competitors of the same year group. And yet by the time she became junior eligible, many of them caught up and now before she is senior eligible, some even got ahead. You may think it was the hype, but she really was that good. There will be talents that will appear closer to their junior eligibility. Zagitova also appeared last minute and so did Pogorilaya.

You just missed the answer on your post:

And when considering skaters like Gubanova who you can consider as one who didn't live up to hype, she had obvious tech flaws that Samodelkina doesn't have.

In Gubanova's case some problems with jumps were already visible when she was at Samodelkina's age. Samodelkina doesn't have such problems with jumping technique.

 

[alvina9894]

Gubanova is still very good. Best SS of RusNats 18 definitely. 6th in Nationals is certainly no joke, considering (1)she has Jr PCS (2)she is undergoing puberty (3)she was lowballed to make way for Ms Olysub. If she improves her toepicks and landings I still expect her to become one of the top ladies.

 

[puremagic]

Gubanova is still very good. Best SS of RusNats 18 definitely. 6th in Nationals is certainly no joke, considering (1)she has Jr PCS (2)she is undergoing puberty (3)she was lowballed to make way for Ms Olysub. If she improves her toepicks and landings I still expect her to become one of the top ladies.

True... But if you compare her skating here and now... She's not a feather anymore. She's still flying on the ice, but not so fast and not so flawless as before...

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

True... But if you compare her skating here and now... She's not a feather anymore. She's still flying on the ice, but not so fast and not so flawless as before...

She’s actually noticeably better now IMO :yay: