I am happy this is "only" a B event. Still, the presence of Hanyu, on the second place is a disgrace for figure skating. He is a gorgeous skater, that deserves the sun and the moon, but yesterday he was out of that grace. He popped, fell, still got all marks of 9s in the GOE. BOOOOO! His base value was so low. Honestly, Misha should have been 2nd, and in a dream podium, Nam and Keegan would share the 3rd spot. They both deserved to be on the podium, but only one managed to squeeze in. I am happy for Keegan, but sad for Nam. His GOE is too low. He has improved so much. Nam's SP was gorgeous, still he only got 88 pints (if I remember well).
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2017 CS Autumn Classic Mens FS
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Well don't forget he still had a perfect SP that put him well ahead of those other guys.
The marks of 9 were definitely unjustified - especially that first judge giving 9.00/9.25/9.50/9.25/9.50.
Not to mention with the jump errors his transitions should have dropped more substantially, because they weren't executed in wake of the jump not being completed. I might have even had him behind (an underscored IMO) Miner in the FS. But coming second overall was definitely appropriate.
Misha was totally screwed out of the podium though, IMO (Messing's PCS in both programs were way too high). Nam is improved, but still skates very slowly and lacks expression. He's no longer the spitfire he was as a kid and now he needs to translate his growth into lines and elegance.
The marks of 9 were definitely unjustified - especially that first judge giving 9.00/9.25/9.50/9.25/9.50.
Not to mention with the jump errors his transitions should have dropped more substantially, because they weren't executed in wake of the jump not being completed. I might have even had him behind (an underscored IMO) Miner in the FS. But coming second overall was definitely appropriate.Misha was totally screwed out of the podium though, IMO (Messing's PCS in both programs were way too high). Nam is improved, but still skates very slowly and lacks expression. He's no longer the spitfire he was as a kid and now he needs to translate his growth into lines and elegance.
- Joined
- May 17, 2017
Well he deserves 2nd place because apparently short program counts. Unless you think short program doesn't belong to the competition.
Remember that there is two program lol ok he messed up his long , but the day before he was breaking his own record unless you already forget that .
I agree Hanyu had a wonderful SP, that helped him. But if you noticed I was talking about the GOE/PCS he got in the long program. It is NOT his fault. The judges are to be blamed. They always show lenience toward established skaters from big federations.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
This is very true. And Fernandez and Osmond were also beneficiaries of big name PCS. Although they were considerably cleaner than Hanyu was.
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- Mar 7, 2015
Y'all sound ecstatic. What a surprise
I think it's because everyone knew Yuzu was going to mess it up overall, it's his trademark in the beginning of the season
. Honestly, the record breaking SP was the shock not the messed-up LP.
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the only thing I want to say is I hope Javier's program get better once he gets used to it.
btw, anyone know why he becomes so thin.
btw, anyone know why he becomes so thin.
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Well don't forget he still had a perfect SP that put him well ahead of those other guys.
The marks of 9 were definitely unjustified - especially that first judge giving 9.00/9.25/9.50/9.25/9.50.
Misha was totally screwed out of the podium though, IMO (Messing's PCS in both programs were way too high). Nam is improved, but still skates very slowly and lacks expression. He's no longer the spitfire he was as a kid and now he needs to translate his growth into lines and elegance.
were you in attendance? Simply asking because you mention Nam's speed and my comment on this from seeing him at Nationals and yesterday is that he is faster. He is not a Patrick Chan : NOBODY skates with Patrick's speed and power throughout an entire program. However, he is approaching his elements with more speed and confidence... sure he did some posing and skating in the center just like some of the others yesterday.... but comparing Nam's speed with Misha for instance... well... there is not much of a difference when you are in attendance... Misha is much more refined, of course... but he wasn't fast by any means and his approach to jumps was slower than Nam's, especially his 3a.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
on a wave of word vomit mojo...
I think that if Yuzuru wants to repeat FS, 'Seimei' is the best choice, as this program will truly shine in Olympics surrounding. And I think that it's the best vehicle to build on in terms of technical difficulty/expansion - the concept/idea themselves are just so strong, impactful per se, and so Yuzuru in terms of creating a spellboud aura without trying too hard even. The mystery atmosphere of that program and the way he expresses it through his whole body are captivating and focuses attention for the whole time, not only on jumps, but on the character produced on ice. I was under impression watching, after this first pop, that he's in a bit battle with himself: he obvously wanted to give all what he had, but he took under consideration the problem with his knee. I actually think that is a sign of a great maturity and self-responsibility to back off a bit in terms of content and the overall 'force' put into the program this time - he surely realizes that 4 mins of bravery and being reckless could results in months of struggle. I think that speed, attack, poise and focus on jumps will all come at the right time - it will become then an entirely new picture of FS. It's hard for me to opine on this FS performance as it was toned down and not done with full power and capability Yuzuru has, looking forward to Cup of Russia. Lots of health, focus on that Yuzuru, the rest will follow naturally!
Misha was again the highlight for me - the amount of thought and care he puts into those classical music translations into choreography and performance on ice are beyond remarkable for me. I feel like he's making those well-known pieces on his own, putting so prominent personal touch as for choreography, the effect truly stands out as something special, a moment to remember. And on top of that - he really wants to give out the emotion, the feel of the piece to the audience; the harmony of his movement with the music has so much calm, quite strenght and timeless elegance into it. I love the flow, softness of everything showed - he's impactful on his own terms and I'm glad that at least audience felt this power of his performances (judges not so much in PCS...). I think that this FS along with 'Ave Maria' SP make a gret combo for Olympics to appreciate the best in Misha, how individual and personal his take on programs is.
Again - so pleasantly surprised with Javier's FS! Lke Chaplin SP, it's still in Javier's repetoire forte, but without being obvious. It's similar to SP in playing out more of a general feel of the music, story and character than playing the character himself in just one dimension. I feel that this FS is even more 'universal' in terms of expression/message given that his previous programs - it kind of plays onto his heritage a bit, using Don Quixote referrence, the costume, styling, but expanding it broader by the story behind the character and this 'Impossible dream'. I probably read too much in it, but for me it resembles being a proud Spaniard in figure skating world, fulfilling his dream of success, making it actually possible to achieve. The whole picture feels special for me - nostalgic, emotional, vivid and the ay music is cut is FABULOUS for me (I'm probably in minority). In my opinion the exact way the music is set for this program gives it some kind of 'oomph' factor, certain flavour, unique dimention: a bit quirky, a bit festive even; there is that match for story told in music for me, there is cohesion between music, movement, styling - it all makes already for compelling wholesome. Again - both step sequences are showstoper, the way he plays with music, lyrics, uses gestures - perfection. I think that the program elevates his already fantastic storytelling qualities and it would be a dream to see it skated flawlessly and get him that dreamy Olympic medal.
I think that if Yuzuru wants to repeat FS, 'Seimei' is the best choice, as this program will truly shine in Olympics surrounding. And I think that it's the best vehicle to build on in terms of technical difficulty/expansion - the concept/idea themselves are just so strong, impactful per se, and so Yuzuru in terms of creating a spellboud aura without trying too hard even. The mystery atmosphere of that program and the way he expresses it through his whole body are captivating and focuses attention for the whole time, not only on jumps, but on the character produced on ice. I was under impression watching, after this first pop, that he's in a bit battle with himself: he obvously wanted to give all what he had, but he took under consideration the problem with his knee. I actually think that is a sign of a great maturity and self-responsibility to back off a bit in terms of content and the overall 'force' put into the program this time - he surely realizes that 4 mins of bravery and being reckless could results in months of struggle. I think that speed, attack, poise and focus on jumps will all come at the right time - it will become then an entirely new picture of FS. It's hard for me to opine on this FS performance as it was toned down and not done with full power and capability Yuzuru has, looking forward to Cup of Russia. Lots of health, focus on that Yuzuru, the rest will follow naturally!
Misha was again the highlight for me - the amount of thought and care he puts into those classical music translations into choreography and performance on ice are beyond remarkable for me. I feel like he's making those well-known pieces on his own, putting so prominent personal touch as for choreography, the effect truly stands out as something special, a moment to remember. And on top of that - he really wants to give out the emotion, the feel of the piece to the audience; the harmony of his movement with the music has so much calm, quite strenght and timeless elegance into it. I love the flow, softness of everything showed - he's impactful on his own terms and I'm glad that at least audience felt this power of his performances (judges not so much in PCS...). I think that this FS along with 'Ave Maria' SP make a gret combo for Olympics to appreciate the best in Misha, how individual and personal his take on programs is.
Again - so pleasantly surprised with Javier's FS! Lke Chaplin SP, it's still in Javier's repetoire forte, but without being obvious. It's similar to SP in playing out more of a general feel of the music, story and character than playing the character himself in just one dimension. I feel that this FS is even more 'universal' in terms of expression/message given that his previous programs - it kind of plays onto his heritage a bit, using Don Quixote referrence, the costume, styling, but expanding it broader by the story behind the character and this 'Impossible dream'. I probably read too much in it, but for me it resembles being a proud Spaniard in figure skating world, fulfilling his dream of success, making it actually possible to achieve. The whole picture feels special for me - nostalgic, emotional, vivid and the ay music is cut is FABULOUS for me (I'm probably in minority). In my opinion the exact way the music is set for this program gives it some kind of 'oomph' factor, certain flavour, unique dimention: a bit quirky, a bit festive even; there is that match for story told in music for me, there is cohesion between music, movement, styling - it all makes already for compelling wholesome. Again - both step sequences are showstoper, the way he plays with music, lyrics, uses gestures - perfection. I think that the program elevates his already fantastic storytelling qualities and it would be a dream to see it skated flawlessly and get him that dreamy Olympic medal.
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I wouldn't even put Osmond in the same category.... she offered a performance even with the faceplant.... I have noticed that she got more cautious but she was still emoting.... Fernandez and Hanyu's PCS were crazy high here for what they offered... Osmond... perhaps a bit high but not crazy high..... and Osmond didn't have any competition in that sense yesterday... the final flight was pretty lackluster in terms of performance... as soon as she got on the ice, it was another level...
in the men, it wasn't the same experience... Nam isn't at the same level but the other 4 guy can connect with the audience... only keegan and misha did yesterday... hanyu did it for 15 seconds in the beginning, until the pop, and during the last 20-30 seconds in the steps which were great... Fernandez was on and off... new program...
but PCS wise, I think it's unfair to mention Osmond as getting crazy high score in the same sentence as Hanyu and Fernandez because her level was higher than these two....
I agree with you 100%. To me that program was truly a story of Javier's skating career and a superb way to (if I read correctly) say goodbye to competitive skating.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I suppose that's true that Osmond did present 7 triples, and outdo her previous skates whereas Fernandez and Hanyu were well below their capabilities. I just personally wasn't quite feeling Osmond's program after that fall, but it was great fight and focus for her to do the rest of the elements... but the overall program was definitely laboured to me (understandably so after the fall -- but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have been reflected in PCS).
Javier still had some great elements too (2 quads, a 3A), but his multiple errors should have put his PCS closer to around 90 points, IMO. Hanyu's PCS should have been around 85, IMO... he had so many jump errors... the 4S+3T was the only jumping highlight, and the rest of the program wasn't even performed to its capability --- and I'm comparing it to some of the Autumn Classic runthroughs where his footwork and spins were stronger. I know his team said it'd be toned down jumps, but I expected the performance outside the jumps to not be toned down - especially being a program he's already familiar comfortable with.
Regardless, it's the first competition of the season, and every top skater everywhere is benefiting from inflation. Clearly Olympic scoring is already under way.
But I expect Hanyu/Fernandez to bounce back, and Osmond to take this confidence towards Pyeongchang.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
https://skatecanada.ca/results/2017-ACI/CSCAN2017_SeniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf
Soooo..... 89.5 points PCS for Hanyu, quite a few 9.00+'s, including one judge giving a 9.50 for Performance (great judging, Kenji Amako! :agree
*waits patiently to see what those who were bashing Osmond's FS PCS and Shoma's Lombardia PCS have to say about this*
too high yes (stuck fingers on frying pan, sorry can't type properly)
i would give him around 82, especially pe and in would be lower for me. 7.5 both. his transitions suffered some too from planned/usual. so 8 with 9 for ss and co. luckily i do not think this affects keegan but would have to check. i focused on health news, not scores.
and am pleased it was just a terrible day in the office but also interesting how muscle memory can mess you up lol
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
:shocked:
I'm guessing one of your fried fingers slipped and you meant 92?
Who are you and what have you done with Yatagarasu?!?!
(Joking aside, feel better.
)
- Joined
- May 17, 2017
They're going to throw this current scoring system out of window soon anyway. Or I'd say they will revise it? Doesn't make any sense if all the same people are judging.Don't waste your time and energy complaining about PCS so early on the season. You'll go mad till the Olympics. The best is yet to come.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
:shocked:
I'm guessing one of your fried fingers slipped and you meant 92?
Who are you and what have you done with Yatagarasu?!?!
(Joking aside, feel better.
thank you! pain aside, using just one hand is so awkward and slow.
i admit to being sentimental and soft when skaters are injured but otherwise, when you mess up, you've just messed up. and i am usually harshest on those i like! but really, last night was not good. it is ok though as long as one learns and moves on, it happens to all of us, many many times.
In B events the scoring tends to be high and the skaters with reputation are being held up more than e.g. in GP, IMO.
Compared to other skaters Hanyu´s sp score was a bit more points than
Fernandez 11
Nam 24
Kessing 26
Ge 29
It was impossible for other skaters than Fernandez to catch up in the freeskate. Hanyu became 5th in the freeskate, which was the right place, IMO.
Fernandez also had errors in his freeskate, but I think he was just fine considering that this was only September. His first GP
event is Cup of China early November and I expect a better sp and freeskate performance from him there.
Compared to other skaters Hanyu´s sp score was a bit more points than
Fernandez 11
Nam 24
Kessing 26
Ge 29
It was impossible for other skaters than Fernandez to catch up in the freeskate. Hanyu became 5th in the freeskate, which was the right place, IMO.
Fernandez also had errors in his freeskate, but I think he was just fine considering that this was only September. His first GP
event is Cup of China early November and I expect a better sp and freeskate performance from him there.
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