2017 Europeans Short Dance

[bramweld]

This is really quite a precedent. I could give you a minimum of 3 tech calls for every competition this year that were incorrect and which would have changed the outcome of the results. Are the federations going to be able to protest to the Referee other teams marks now? Could they complain that a team shouldnt have got L4 on their footwork, shouldnt have got a L4 on their rotational lift? It actually would be good for the sport because it would start making the tech specialists more accountable.

And really how many top teams are so keenly scrutinizing the performance of their competitors during all competitions, especially when you consider skating order issues? I think what should happen is there should be immediate protests by a competitors coach, similar to how its done in other sports and the athlete himself can only question his own scores before they leave the K&C. When you give a team their score and they leave the K&C there should be no questions after that. That's the only way you're gonna have any real transparency in the process. Also given time constraints no team should be given more than two calls, and how he chooses to use them is his business.

 

[moon]

Obviously the skaters aren't going to be watching in real time Let us not be silly. The coaches , skaters and accredited team members have access to televisions and protocols at ice level. You can be sure that the other teams are watched within 30 mins of the performance. Anyone could let the coach know about inconsistencies and then the coach could protest

 

[maddiesparks]

Margaglio on Raisport explained SD deduction:

Someone called the assistant specialist in the evening to point out additional rotation. The lift happened in a corner far away from the judges so they didn't see it live, but only on TV afterwards. They had to go back to the arena with the panel late yesterday and watch. Margaglio agrees with the call in the sense that it was correct, but thinks this was way too late, saying everyone was perplexed. This sets an unpleasant precedent.

 

[dcnative]

Is the score warrented or not? Personal bias aside (that may or may not exist) Nathalie is an ISU-certified ice dance judge (she passed the exam). Even the British commentators had C/L lower than their Italian counterparts.

 

[bramweld]

Margaglio on Raisport explained SD deduction:

That's the point, in the evening. Thirty minutes had clearly passed had it not? So why was it so necessary to remove a point? This has happened to many teams before and they simply had to suck it up and move on. What was so special about taking that extra point from C/L? Lets hope the other teams are equally as charitable when flaws are pointed out by other team officials within the regulated 30 minutes.

 

[moon]

That's the point, in the evening. Thirty minutes had clearly passed had it not? So why was it so necessary to remove a point? This has happened to many teams before and they simply had to suck it up and move on. What was so special about taking that extra point from C/L? Lets hope the other teams are equally as charitable when flaws are pointed out by other team officials within the regulated 30 minutes.

I absolutely agree with you. It will be interesting to see if anything of the same sort happens after the FD on Saturday.

 

[rosy14]

To report Margaglio accurately: competition was over, medals awarded, press meeting over, they all were in the hotel. And suddenly a phone call arrived to the French panelist: someone. reviewing the SD on Youtube (!) had seen the mistake. The panels and the judges and all the ISU officials went on the rink and reviewed all the TV images, and then, after 22.30 (SD finished at 16.30) they called Anna and Luca to inform them. Anna and Luca accepted with no protest whatsoever the decison and at 23.30 it was communicated to the press.
If all that doesn't smell a rat, I'm a very stupid and naive person.
Expect big problems ahead, especially at Worlds.

 

[Winnie]

I do not know if this situation makes the French team look bad or are the other teams who look bad now. I mean, why other teams did not do this before?, what a ineptitude, and who is the person assigned to be monitoring your rival? your coaches?

The only group that "looks bad" to me at the moment is the ISU because I can't figure out how what happened fits into their established rules. All they need to do is explain it!

 

[Meoima]

To report Margaglio accurately: competition was over, medals awarded, press meeting over, they all were in the hotel. And suddenly a phone call arrived to the French panelist: someone. reviewing the SD on Youtube (!) had seen the mistake. The panels and the judges and all the ISU officials went on the rink and reviewed all the TV images, and then, after 22.30 (SD finished at 16.30) they called Anna and Luca to inform them. Anna and Luca accepted with no protest whatsoever the decison and at 23.30 it was communicated to the press.
If all that doesn't smell a rat, I'm a very stupid and naive person.
Expect big problems ahead, especially at Worlds.

And The Skating Lesson already blamed it on Russian fed. Typical trashy TSL.

 

[leafygreens]

Russian Federation do ANYTHING for that Olympic medal.......
They are unlimited.
From now one no competition will be finished after scoring unless Russians leading (?).
They love mockering using French Federation and their mysterious connection (f.e. 2002. Olympic scandal).

:thumbsup:

To report Margaglio accurately: competition was over, medals awarded, press meeting over, they all were in the hotel. And suddenly a phone call arrived to the French panelist: someone. reviewing the SD on Youtube (!) had seen the mistake. The panels and the judges and all the ISU officials went on the rink and reviewed all the TV images, and then, after 22.30 (SD finished at 16.30) they called Anna and Luca to inform them. Anna and Luca accepted with no protest whatsoever the decison and at 23.30 it was communicated to the press.
If all that doesn't smell a rat, I'm a very stupid and naive person.
Expect big problems ahead, especially at Worlds.

Oh no no no, this should NOT be allowed. This sounds like a very unethical situation. The competition was over. No changes are to be made at that point.

Who is the person who made the call? Only other officials are allowed to inform each other of incorrect scores. If the person who called was an official, they would not need YouTube as they have their own recordings. If the person who called is the affiliate of a competitor, that is not allowed either because they can only protest their own scores, not someone else's . The ISU needs to be transparent about who made that phone call.

I don't care if it was only one point and C/L were ok with it. This sets a very bad precedent for the future. Judges and athletes will go home not knowing if the scores will change. If it turns out the change was ethical then fine, but the ISU needs to explain this clearly.

 

[4everchan]

 

[RoaringMice]

To report Margaglio accurately: competition was over, medals awarded, press meeting over, they all were in the hotel. And suddenly a phone call arrived to the French panelist: someone. reviewing the SD on Youtube (!) had seen the mistake. The panels and the judges and all the ISU officials went on the rink and reviewed all the TV images, and then, after 22.30 (SD finished at 16.30) they called Anna and Luca to inform them. Anna and Luca accepted with no protest whatsoever the decison and at 23.30 it was communicated to the press.
If all that doesn't smell a rat, I'm a very stupid and naive person.
Expect big problems ahead, especially at Worlds.

Why does our sport not have a "field of play" rule like other sports do, or a time limit for this type of thing? It is RIDICULOUS that several hours could pass and you can still change a mark. What if I notice something on YouTube from the last Winter Olympics? Can I call and have that mark revised now? There need to be formal time limits for this type of thing; otherwise, it'll be a madhouse.

 

[RoaringMice]

exactly!

 

[leafygreens]

Why does our sport not have a "field of play" rule like other sports do, or a time limit for this type of thing? It is RIDICULOUS that several hours could pass and you can still change a mark. What if I notice something on YouTube from the last Winter Olympics? Can I call and have that mark revised now? There need to be formal time limits for this type of thing; otherwise, it'll be a madhouse.

There supposedly is a rule (30 minutes) but I don't know if it was followed. There has been no official story of the timeline.

 

[Spot]

If the time on this article http://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-arti...taliens-ont-ils-fait-un-deuxieme-porte/772427 is right, then this was already noted (well) before 18:12, so not really that late. I think the fact that the judges had to be gathered again and the whole issue discussed is why it may have taken so long.

 

[leafygreens]

If the time on this article http://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-arti...taliens-ont-ils-fait-un-deuxieme-porte/772427 is right, then this was already noted (well) before 18:12, so not really that late. I think the fact that the judges had to be gathered again and the whole issue discussed is why it may have taken so long.

In my opinion the judges should be at the site and available for 30 minutes after every competition to answer for any problems that may arise. Once they leave it should be over. If they are allowed to leave and come back that is not really going by the rule of 30 minutes.

 

[Spot]

I agree with there being a time limit, but I just wanted to correct the impression that this was several hours after the fact. It probably was over an hour but not by much. The article itself says over an hour which is the limit for an appeal and they didn't seem to expect that there would be a change.

 

[leafygreens]

The Lequipe article sounds like it was written before the scores were changed. Notable:

The short dance program of the European Championships placed on Thursday afternoon the Italians Anna Cappellini and Luca Lanotte in the lead. Except that several international coaches have noticed an error that has escaped the technical controllers and informed the French (too late to file a complaint, which must be filed within an hour after the competition).

Extremely confusing. Too late to file a complaint? But a complaint was still filed. And why would the French be able to file a complaint about anything other than their own scores?

This is embarrassing for the sport. Most of the press articles still say that the Italians won. This situation could have been easily avoided. The small awards, press conference and results should not be done until results are finalized. The only way there should be any change after that time is if there was a computer malfunction, cheating, or other serious problem. If it was human error and nobody catches it, then the results should stand.

 

[Spot]

But it is also embarrassing for the sport that so many judges missed it to be honest.

 

[leafygreens]

But it is also embarrassing for the sport that so many judges missed it to be honest.

Except it's not the first or last time judges have missed or will miss something. That is not embarrassing, it's called being Human. This is why a window of opportunity is allowed to complain. This time that window was permitted to be abused by a competitor, and that is the embarrassing part.