2017 GP NHK Ladies SP

[Mathman]

MIRAI MIRAI MIRAI MIRAI MIRAI

before we got her scores, i went to rewatch her program even though i hate that awful violin rendition of chopin's most overrated nocturne. i had to. it wasn't a mere girl skating but a superheroine. she ended up being the only one i rewatched. going for that axel is superhuman - liza knows it's not very rewarding points-wise. these two deserve all the respect and admiration for going for it anyway. and that i-spin!

that was a great skate. and a great performance.

Mirai is slowly building her case for inclusion on the U.S. Olympic team. No under-rotation on the triple Axel. If she is worried that the triple Axel takes a lot out of her for the rest of the program, then doing it in the short and not the long makes perfect sense (like Liza Tuktamysheva in her world championship season). :yes:

 

[mirai4life]

can someone please tell me how it is possible that tsurkaya has such sublime jump technic while medve a lets say medicore one with the same eteri?

Because Polina is special ~

 

[yume]

can someone please tell me how it is possible that tsurkaya has such sublime jump technic while medve a lets say medicore one with the same eteri?

Because Polina learned that jump technique from an another coach.

 

[kevinVchicago]

So its about death or isnt ? Some people here says that it is about something different.

According to Medvedeva, it's "the flight of a human soul."

 

[Libingbignasca]

PCS & SP = the ultimate cushion. Basically, even if Med misses an entire jump combo in the FS, she is SO far away from the next best FS skater (Sotskova) that she will still win. I wish the SP and LP were independent events. Furthermore, skaters get low PCS "just because" they get placed in the first SP group. Skaters shouldn't get sky-high PCS just for being in the sport long enough - otherwise, we can have Michelle Kwan skate the same program as Carolina at Rostelecom and expect equal marks. ISU should randomize SP order, take off their seniority-preference glasses, and stop these crazy PCS cushions and GOEs warranted by the name only. It is becoming a disgrace to the sport and its core values.

And whoever said that the skating was worse pre-2014 is kidding themselves. Poor edgework, poorly executed toe jumps and tiny axels with poor ice coverage, poor musicality, cheated loops that the tech controller somehow overlooks, gimmicky miming and bent-over posture is something common to most of the "great" Russian skaters of this era. I am Russian and I am ashamed that the federation is using cheap tricks like tanos, rippons, backloading, and cramming of elements to compensate for the lack of true skating quality and lyricism, softness, and flow.* Those are all things I enjoyed so much from the era of Mao and Yuna (and Carolina, when she wasn't a political pawn - now her programs aren't as good but are getting comparable or better PCS due to veteran status). These skaters and their true, un-politically-motivated rivalry and constantly evolving programs are forever etched into the history of the sport. They have stood the test of time beyond puberty, body change, injury and illness - and even a post-Olympics comback after 2 years off competition in the case of Yuna. We have yet to see any post-2014 skater to do the same thing. You can fool yourself, the judges, the tech controller, people on these boards, etc - but you cannot fool history.

*Note: just because you skate to lyrical and soft music doesn't automatically mean you have good posture, flow, and/or time your step sequences to the tempo and note changes.

 

[rain]

Mirai is slowly building her case for inclusion on the U.S. Olympic team. No under-rotation on the triple Axel. If she is worried that the triple Axel takes a lot out of her for the rest of the program, then doing it in the short and not the long makes perfect sense (like Liza Tuktamysheva in her world championship season). :yes:

I thought she was lowballed in the scores. That triple axel was really impressive, even with the two-foot on the landing. Absolutely no doubt it was turned completely — not even a quarter turn, she was completely backwards.

My overall impression here was of a lot of pretty, lyrical programs that were almost interchangeable — not much stood out. Tsurskaya — this was my first time seeing her and she looks like she's imitating Medvedeva, what with the miming. I wish she'd close her mouth at the beginning of the program.

On a Canadian nationals note, Chartrand looks worse than ever. If there's a young skater who has a great performance at nationals, I think the federation should consider sending that person to the Olympics. At one time Chartrand was on par with Daleman, if not Osmond, but now she seems to have seriously regressed. Is there anyone else waiting in the wings?

 

[rain]

Mariah just doubled her flip which invalidatedthe the whole pass. I think the judges made her pay for it too in PCS because she looked great otherwise. She did her best 3z-3t I’ve ever seen.

I love her costume. Amazing and gorgeous!

 

[AshWagsFan]

Exactly , those people shoould watch zhenias last short program and from previous year.And compare step sequences.They re very similar, music is similar, and she doesnt do nothing to let people distinguish them.No characteristic movements,figures,steps , just she raises her leg above with open mouth.Even her dresses ar e only pretty dresses And watch Yunas Danse MAcabre and Bond. YOu dont have to be fan of her but theres no way to make mistakes which program is which. Everything is different

Honestly I agree. Especially in the free skates the step sequences are all really similar, all go in the same direction, all have similar edges and turns, and this yr and last yr both have that weird out of know where spiral she does at the end of it

 

[[email protected]]

Not a bad event although CoC was better. Polina was a highlight to me. She even improved since last year Saransk so that it was her best performance of this program. I think judges were a bit conservative with pcs. I would think 72-73 would be the right score for the high quality of her skating and jumps. But this is her first senior appearance. I wonder if it is the best result ever for the GP SP debut. Zagitova had 69. So hopefully she set up the foundation. Although I am not that enthusiastic about her FP if she stays clean she will have a very decent score to confirm that she is not only in the game for the third spot in the team but for the GPF as well.

Caro was brilliant in what she can deliver. A bit overscored - I would give her exact the same pcs margin over Polina as tes margin to Polina over Caro to let them have a similar total score. 4 points is too big a gap.

Satoko has improved her skating. I finally started to enjoy watching her skate. Not much improvements in the jump section though. Getting to the team will not be an easy breeze to her.

Leonova was underscored in pcs. She used to have 32 points 3 seasons ago. And she was not worse today - in fact she was quite good to get only 29. There is a 3 point shortage so that she should have scored 66.

Medvedeva is Medvedeva. She confirmed again that she is the best skater of modern times by a very big margin. But I am finally ready to agree that it starts to be boring. I was spellbound watching this SP for the first time at test skates. The second time at Nepela I was fascinated again. Not that much seeing it now for the fourth time. Although I can imagine the awe of the Olympics spectators who will see her SP for the first time there.

Free skate might change the standings big time. It's going to be interesting.

 

[blue_idealist]

On a Canadian nationals note, Chartrand looks worse than ever. If there's a young skater who has a great performance at nationals, I think the federation should consider sending that person to the Olympics. At one time Chartrand was on par with Daleman, if not Osmond, but now she seems to have seriously regressed. Is there anyone else waiting in the wings?

Larkyn Austman has been skating well this season. She wasn't too far behind Chartrand at Skate Canada. Veronik Mallet will also be returning from injury, I believe.

 

[risingtrot]

So glad Polina did well. Since I first saw her in Juniors I knew she's someone to watch out for. I think she is and will be my favourite female Russian skater in this period. Next favourite from Russia would be Maria Sotskova (even though some people find her boring based on the comments here^^). There's a lot of very good male junior skaters too. I recommend watching the Junior competition when you have the chance. They often stream Junior competitions in Youtube most of the time so no need to look for links, etc.

With regards to Satoko, I am not optimistic that she will make the Olympic team even though I want her to go and be given the chance. We'll have to see how she'd finish in this grand prix series and in the nationals. I think it will still be Mai and Wakaba for the Olympics.

With regards to the always controversial PCS scoring, the problem is this was started already and it's difficult to stop. I definitely feel that it started after Sochi. Since judges kept increasing the PCS scores to someone, a few skaters or so, I am afraid it won't just end. It's already too late to stop it unless the judging system is changed, those very biased judges are reprimanded or their actual scoring software is updated to prevent people from giving a bit too high or random PCS.

While Medvedeva is a very skilled and consistent skater, and I think from what I see on TV/Media is a very nice person and that she has so many fans, her skating is just not my favourite. She doesn't excite me when she skates. I feel like it's the same thing every time. She could use some more mature, well rounded choreography. Just my opinion.

I hope everyone do well in the Free Skate~

 

[OS]

Well, that's a deeply cynical point of view in my opinion!

Everything in her program seems developed around the concept of either the moment of death/birth or the liberation of the spirit from the body. This is actually abstract art. Again, to each his own, but what's your argument that this is not abstract, conceptual performance?

It is true I am a cynic ... but I am also very passionate about my arts
I realize it may seem often I am picking on her, but really I am all about the work, and I fundamentally disagree this should be THE standard that is supposed to represent what the best of the sport has to offer. It is the standard I am criticising and reflecting.

Medvedva's program may all require press conferences of their own, but the sport is measured by how successful something has been delivered, and not what has been conceived in someone's head. Or bonuses being given by a panel of 9, who bows to their federation interests, their relationships and the ISU.

I look for ideation, progression, variation, versatility, diversity, depth of research, empathy, attention to detail, and genuine self-actualization, but most importantly the end results whether everything has been brought together to engage in a coherent and unforgettable storytelling/impression. Something that is worth being revisiting again and again. Of course, everyone is free to pursue in whatever direction they feel will work best for them, but usually, from the work, you can just tell whether they have cared enough to investigate to gain insight, to improve etc..

Abstract art implies originality and risk-taking of the unfamiliarity or the intangible, but if you really look at her typical mimeography, they are amongst the most literal and obvious delivery in the world, There's nothing vaguely abstract, nuanced about them or reference to music intention. In general, I find her to be a very one-dimensional interpreter with very little variance or attention to detail from one movement to the next (let alone between programs) beyond busy transition movements which took all her attention. Certainly nothing to the depth, nuance, or any genuine self-expression one would expect from those scores. Part of the problem may be the lack of empathy, care or in-depth knowledge or insight to the source material beyond COP number crunching. You always get a sense of: here's where I act, here's where I emote, here's the half way point, here's where I jump, here comes the spin, here my grand finale, now emote meter x 10 for big finish PCS impressions!! Now big smile, for extra confidence PCS.

The whole purpose of choreography is the symbiotic relationship between the movement to music, and music to the storytelling and back to the choreographer, to the skater. It is the quality and the power of these ideas, the curation process, the deconstruction of the source, the realization, the self-actualization how everything works together to create a vision, not segmentation. A great piece of work should be transformational, compelling, original, authentic and self-evident.

A classic program should have the capacity to elevate ANY source material into timeless classics by the quality of all the above to succinctly present a vision that can be universally understood. Great abstract programs/performances are different things to different people, but for me, they are like Patrick's Elegie, Hanyu's Chopin, Jason's Secret of Love (Piano), Mao's Chopin, Yuna's The Lark Ascending, Gershwin, Carolina's Shostakovich (My fav work of hers). They all have the finer qualities, styles, characteristics, distinctive qualities/voice, able to sustain and play with a delicate mood that enriches and lift the source into timeless and irreplaceable figure skating program/performances.

 

[Blades of Passion]

What would you suggest her to use movements related to death?

She starts the program with generically soft arms and slightly extended back free leg, into a step where she partially kicks her free leg in the air, into a stationary turning toepick pivot. What does this have to do with the greater theme that is supposedly being presented in the program? Her transitions are nearly identical to how they always have been, as is the placement of every element and choreography of the spins. How do all of those movements supposedly interpret the music in a different way than her other programs? The answer is they don't. The "interpretation" of this program comes down to opening her mouth and staring upward.

Except she is not telling anything related to the music, but some unrelated story she made up, treating every piece of music like some garnish. Like parsley. A dish doesn't become a better dish just because you put a strand of parsley on top, take it out, still makes no difference. It is still the same dish.

Yes this is the more accurate read. The movement and overall concept being presented are quite superficial. More care is placed upon hitting the transitions and separated elements themselves than in creating something tailored to the music and being a vision unto itself. The "theme" of the program is simply pasted onto all of the movements that were always going to be there to begin with, using just a few different arm positions and facial expressions along with what she always does in order to create this "theme".

Polina Tsurskaya has a flawless jumping technique

She does not. Her arm position is awkward on some of the jumps and her body tilted, because she tries to force her upper body into the rotation. There's a disconnect between how the two parts of her body are moving that should not be happening. Look here at the position of her foot in comparison to her upper body - https://i.imgur.com/j3IYUg6.png - the upper body is more twisted around than it should be. She isn't jumping and letting the power of the jump create the rotation, even though she gets plenty of height. The toepick foot on that lutz is also more turned during the takeoff than it should be ideally, although she does pre-rotate it a little less than some of the other ladies.

 

[rlopen]

There are plenty of federations with multiple spots with one top-level competitor and all the #2 or #3 skaters have to do to get to the Olympics is earn minimum scores (which I think Alaine has done?). So in that sense, Alaine can earn her spot at the Olympics even if there are plenty of Japanese skaters who would outperform. I also think it's unfair to say she isn't hungry for it, but she's definitely way underperforming.

And you're correct, they did earn it. Daleman and Osmond were 2nd and 3rd. The Japanese ladies were 5th, 11th, and 16th. So while at this point in time, the Japanese ladies are looking stronger overall, at the time when qualifying actually counted, Canada was far better (with two podium finishers, they were even collectively better than Russia at the time).

That being said, Alaine still needs to fight off some other Canadian ladies who I am sure are itching to get that 3rd spot, and see vulnerability on Chartrand's part. She can't take her role as de facto Canadian #3 for granted. If another skater outskates her at Nationals, and Alaine doesn't make the Olympics, it'll be heartbreaking for her, but not unsurprising. Canada doesn't really have to care about who the 3rd skater is who goes, since they already have 2 top contenders; they will be fine with giving Olympic experience to a deserving up and comer (e.g. Tamura) if Chartrand bombs.

OMG I totally forgot about her...that's my bad. And yes, I don't think Alaine seems complacent, I just see big big underperforming. I do LOVE her and hope she can get it, but I need to see the attack and fire in her skating (and when I say attack/fire I mean eeking out the jumps and really fighting hard for everything which I haven't seen so far in her programs...that being said, I have no doubt that she is working hard and wants to do better.)

 

[Spirals for Miles]

My thoughts on the sp, after some of the arguing has hopefully died down:
Zhenya. Absolutely stunning. People who said she would never be artistic when she was a debut senior are really regretting those words now! She was phenomenal last night--very glad to see the rippon on the toe, and hoping for something on the loop soon. Yes, yes, she landed forward on the axel, but she landed it and it was rotated and there was no stepout or fall, which is better than some top level skaters...

Carolina. WHY is she so overscored? I can see why people like her skating so much--it seems like it's from a past era which some may secretly yearn to return to I suppose. How is it that with the messy landing on the combo, she got zero GOE? Anyone else would get negative GOE, yes even Zhenya would. And with a toe-toe 3-3 and a loop and a messy spin, why is she getting nearly 38 in technical elements? That's very similar to what Polina got and Polina is miles ahead of Kostner any day of the week. Don't even get me started on PCS overscoring here in general. I would have given Kostner around a 65-68.

Polina. Gorgeous, as always. Beautiful jumps, beautiful spins, beautiful steps, and a beautiful dress to match. I love watching Polina and she's one of those skaters that makes you forget your surroundings. She got hit by the first group PCS curse but hopefully won't be tomorrow. She was underscored, in my opinion, especially in relation to Kostner. If I was a judge, Polina would be in second right now.

Satoko. Yes the jumps were small and the toe was doubled and whatever else you want to say but the TINY QUEEN IS BACK. She's got a wonderful dress and a wonderful program that I'm so excited to see the progression of. You cannot count her off of the team yet! I've missed her gorgeous spins...

Mirai. YASSS SLAYYYY YOU LANDED A 3A because you are amazing! Underscored in PCS in my opinion, as this was a really good SP from her. The underrotations I can kind of? agree with but not too much. I think she's in the right placement but should have been a few points higher.

 

[Scrufflet]

Not a bad event although CoC was better. Polina was a highlight to me. She even improved since last year Saransk so that it was her best performance of this program. I think judges were a bit conservative with pcs. I would think 72-73 would be the right score for the high quality of her skating and jumps. But this is her first senior appearance. I wonder if it is the best result ever for the GP SP debut. Zagitova had 69. So hopefully she set up the foundation. Although I am not that enthusiastic about her FP if she stays clean she will have a very decent score to confirm that she is not only in the game for the third spot in the team but for the GPF as well.

Caro was brilliant in what she can deliver. A bit overscored - I would give her exact the same pcs margin over Polina as tes margin to Polina over Caro to let them have a similar total score. 4 points is too big a gap.

Satoko has improved her skating. I finally started to enjoy watching her skate. Not much improvements in the jump section though. Getting to the team will not be an easy breeze to her.

Leonova was underscored in pcs. She used to have 32 points 3 seasons ago. And she was not worse today - in fact she was quite good to get only 29. There is a 3 point shortage so that she should have scored 66.

Medvedeva is Medvedeva. She confirmed again that she is the best skater of modern times by a very big margin. But I am finally ready to agree that it starts to be boring. I was spellbound watching this SP for the first time at test skates. The second time at Nepela I was fascinated again. Not that much seeing it now for the fourth time. Although I can imagine the awe of the Olympics spectators who will see her SP for the first time there.

Free skate might change the standings big time. It's going to be interesting.

I haven't seen them all but must agree re Leonova being underscored and Tsurskaya too. Really liked Tsur and I think she is my current fave Russian skater. I love her shoulder movement!

 

[zanadude]

Ok, if not getting better at least remaining competitive. Has there ever been a lady at 30 who was in serious medal contention for an olympic medal before?

The 1920 Gold Medalist was four months pregnant. I'd like to see someone try and pull THAT off now!

 

[Icey]

DO you remeber any girl who skated 50 years ago? :eeking: I dont think so

you re nasty becasue you re die hard fan of someone and cannot accept reality- many people are bored. I dont think that Evgenia will be remembered in 50 year in any special way- she will be remebered as one of the skaters who got gold medal, thats all, and maybe being the first who got started all backloading stuff.I wouldnt say that she earned it. And yes you right , there are so many russians skaters who got better great SS, musiclaity , flow on their jump then top 3 russian girl now

Most know Peggy Fleming. Maybe if she hadn't been a commentator for so may years one might not, but she was.

 

[Icey]

Zhenia every year has to explain us what her programs are about ,because nobody has no idea :dev2: no offence

Unless the viewer knows the music, it is not likely they will know what story the skater is trying to tell, no matter what they do on the ice. And even if it is not related to the music, how are most going to know.

 

[Icey]

Because Polina is special ~

I fine it difficult to believe there is that big a gap in their technique.