2017 GP Skate America Pairs SP

[QuadThrow]

What is needed for James / Cipres to make the GPF? Is there any semi-likely scenario?

Yu/Zhang definitly have to be in third today and score less than 149,48.

To be honest the most probable scenario is James/Cirpes in the GPF and yu/Zhang out. You have to keep your fingers cross that Bruno is on today and they do not withdraw.

 

[4everchan]

This was just pointed out to me on another forum, but isolated scores from the Canadian and Chinese judges for Savchenko/Massot really show the Olympic season is underway. The Canadian judge's score for their twist and the Chinese judge's PCS compared to the other top teams here is quite telling.

was there a German judge? I'd be curious to see their PCS scores

You know... it's the same every time and every where... judges like their scores not to count

 

[QuadThrow]

This was just pointed out to me on another forum, but isolated scores from the Canadian and Chinese judges for Savchenko/Massot really show the Olympic season is underway. The Canadian judge's score for their twist and the Chinese judge's PCS compared to the other top teams here is quite telling.

I agree.

The PCS from the Chinese jugde and the GOE from the Canadian (+1 for twist:sarcasm for S/M are something the ISU should have an eye one.

 

[4everchan]

I agree.

The PCS from the Chinese jugde and the GOE from the Canadian (+1 for twist:sarcasm for S/M are something the ISU should have an eye one.

judge 6 from germany, didn't give -3 for S/M's 3s... which is pretty hilarious as we all know that everyone will do so with a fall... and it just singles them out...

the CHinese judge decided yu/zhang had the best of everything in PCS and their score is higher by a point or so on every PCS
the Canadian judge was stingy with the Germans on the twist but everyone else was too generous with them on the lift.. Aljona missed her grab. Also, it seems like the German judge didn't see that Bruno stumbled a bit in the steps..

We could do this all night.. there are a lot of ways to make these judges look bias in many ways... and that includes our own biases

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

was there a German judge? I'd be curious to see their PCS scores

You know... it's the same every time and every where... judges like their scores not to count

Judge no. 6. The German judge's GOE and PCS score for Duhamel/Radford were either the highest out of the panel or agreed upon by multiple judges (not just one other). Same cannot be said about that judge's scores for Yu/Zhang, however. Same game was played there with PCS though I think it's less outlandish about because many think 7.75 and low 8.00s isn't an undeserved score for them and wasn't too far from the other judges' scores for them (though it's the lowest for most categories). The GOE seems more in-line with what everyone else gave Yu/Zhang. No "1" for a twist where everyone else gave a 3, for example.

judge 6 from germany, didn't give -3 for S/M's 3s... which is pretty hilarious as we all know that everyone will do so with a fall... and it just singles them out...

the CHinese judge decided yu/zhang had the best of everything in PCS and their score is higher by a point or so on every PCS
the Canadian judge was stingy with the Germans on the twist but everyone else was too generous with them on the lift.. Aljona missed her grab. Also, it seems like the German judge didn't see that Bruno stumbled a bit in the steps..

We could do this all night.. there are a lot of ways to make these judges look bias in many ways... and that includes our own biases

There are two issues, one is boosting your own team's scores, and the other is underscoring your team's rivals. Outside the fall, the German judge's GOE was pretty much matched by at least two other judges and for the most part agreed with most of the panel. Most expect some boosting (no matter how irrational) by home judges, but underscoring other teams seems to be an extra step and not giving proper credit where it's due for a team that works for it. In the former, you're only fudging your own team's scores (which admittedly will affect other teams in terms of placement but not score), with the latter, you're fudging another team's scores and not giving them credit. I'm not saying the German judge wasn't also playing games. It's clear this is happening. Some scores though are a lot more ridiculous and blatant than others like the Canadian judge giving S/M a 1 on the twist and the Chinese judge's PCS scores for S/M being radically different for reasons I don't think are sincere judicial analysis or using a different spectrum than everyone else. That's my piece.

 

[QuadThrow]

I think the Canadian judge giving S/M a 1 on the twist was quite ridiculous. That's my piece.

It is. And it does not look like a mistake.

Either it is a a demonstration of Mr. Lukasik´s poor judging skills or it seems that his math skills are just not good enough. He can assume that every other judge will give a +3 or at least +2. So his mark will be the canceled one. But in this case he could easily give a +2 without changing the result. A +2 would have been acceptable and would have brought him out of the focus.

 

[4everchan]

well i looked at the twist... just to be devil's advocate... the first time I saw it, I thought it was pretty good.

Of course, some components serve for the level of the twist ... for instance : Aljona has the tiniest noodle arm variation ever.... and it seems that this is what is getting them the level 4 this year... however, it's definitely not a good quality tano like some others...

steps before : great for choreography but they are just gliding on their edge, while moving the free leg in the air....

and finally, the biggest problem, depending on the angle a judge would look at that is the landing... It looks like Aljona almost landed heavily on Bruno's shoulder...

I can see how that twist wouldn't be seen as cleanly executed as other teams.... Like Sk/K or Y/Z

BTW i would simply invite you in looking at how the Canadian judge scored the twist for everyone.... I think that the ranking he did of tonight's twists is pretty accurate.

YMMV

 

[QuadThrow]

well i looked at the twist... just to be devil's advocate... the first time I saw it, I thought it was pretty good.

Of course, some components serve for the level of the twist ... for instance : Aljona has the tiniest noodle arm variation ever.... and it seems that this is what is getting them the level 4 this year... however, it's definitely not a good quality tano like some others...

steps before : great for choreography but they are just gliding on their edge, while moving the free leg in the air....

and finally, the biggest problem, depending on the angle a judge would look at that is the landing... It looks like Aljona almost landed heavily on Bruno's shoulder...

I can see how that twist wouldn't be seen as cleanly executed as other teams.... Like Sk/K or Y/Z

BTW i would simply invite you in looking at how the Canadian judge scored the twist for everyone.... I think that the ranking he did of tonight's twists is pretty accurate.

YMMV

we can discuss this for hours. I would have given a +3 for Yu/Zhang too.

If you have a look at the eight features the judges should look for to mark the twist, I have many problems to find a feature Aljona and Bruno do not reach.

matched the music structure
good ice coverage
height
good flow and entry...


In addition she is landing the twist on the different edge which makes it even harder. A strict judge can give a +2 but he /she has to give D/R +/-0 in this case to be fair.

 

[4everchan]

we can discuss this for hours..

we won't

 

[icekiwi]

Felt that Yu/Zhang were underscored in both the tech and PCs tonight. Their throw triple twist and throw triple flip should have +3 GOEs, such height, length and flow in the throws. SBS jumps and tech elements were clean and in sync. Also lots of choreography touches here and there. You can use tell Zhao Hong bo wasn't happy with the scores. To me, it should have been 74-75s.

 

[Sabine]

If you look at the SC judging it has been the same thing. The Chinese judge 3Tw of S/M +2, D/R +3 (FS). Who could ever understand this. It seems that there is a lot of politicking in pairs (France, Russia, Canada and China) and they don't just throw the points on their own nation.

 

[QuadThrow]

Aljona mentioned that she is disappointed. Weeks of trouble are behind them and it was a short term decision to compete at Skate America.

 

[Crystal7]

Honestly, I liked Aljona and Bruno much better than Meagan and Eric... They are more emotional and feel the music much more. Meagan and Eric have great skills - there is no doubt, but yesterday I couldn't feel their emotions, any artistic aspect. Just 'sport attitude'.

 

[MaiKatze]

I didn't have a chance to watch it yet...but nooo...S/M. :sad21: I really hope they make the GPF.

 

[yqs100]

I agree.

The PCS from the Chinese jugde and the GOE from the Canadian (+1 for twist:sarcasm for S/M are something the ISU should have an eye one.

maybe you should look at the pcs the German judge gave to Y/Z. Almost all below 8! Maybe he needs to renewal his certificate

 

[Eclair]

I don't think Savchenko/Massot can complain about their PCS - 36 for that SP was pretty generous.
I think Duhamel/Radfords PCS were too high - 36 for that SP - sorry, but their SS and pair skating is not that good.

I'm looking forward to S/M FS: I like it so much better than their SP, it's really a choreographic masterpiece

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Just went to prepare my reminder for the Pairs FS, and discovered that I forgot to do the reminders for last night's competitions before I went to bed.

So, I'll do them now, so that the links are together in the thread when I come back to watch it later in the week.

Here is the link for the archived World Feed coverage on the British Eurosport Player:
https://gb.eurosportplayer.com/even...-america/79e8f62a-751f-45a9-ba06-913d02bf60bd

Unfortunately, the only competition being shown on Eurosport’s linear TV channels is the Ladies Free. :disapp:

Here is the Time Schedule:
www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpusa2017/gpusa2017_Pairs_SP_TimeSchedule.pdf

And here is the Live Scoring:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpusa2017/SEG005.HTM

Hope this helps.

ALL THE BEST EVERYBODY!!!

CaroLiza_fan